Jump to content

Pelikan Vs Sailor In Terms Of Wetness


The-Thinker

Recommended Posts

To all those who own (tried) both pens, i would like to ask why are western nibs (pelikans specifically) are know to be wetter than the Japanese nibs (considering same nib width on paper and not marking) . Is it because of the feed/nib material or the engineering of the feed/nib ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 34
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

  • The-Thinker

    17

  • BlueJ

    5

  • tinta

    4

  • Intensity

    2

To the extent that this difference exists (and exceptions can certainly be found) I would say it depends on the details of the nib and feed design and not on material composition, which is mostly the same. Conversely, Japanese inks tend to be wetter, so if you pair pens with inks from the same country the difference may largely disappear.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Definitely due to engineering and not material. The material is likely the same or very similar (steel/gold nib, plastic feed; the only question would be which plastic, but I'm certain pen companies use pretty much the same type across the board with some exceptions).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

i do agree with you! i am curious to know if one puts a sailor feed on a pelikan nib or the opposite way around, will the nibs perform as they would on their original feeds ( in other words i want to narrow downs if its due to the nib or feed )

 

To the extent that this difference exists (and exceptions can certainly be found) I would say it depends on the details of the nib and feed design and not on material composition, which is mostly the same. Conversely, Japanese inks tend to be wetter, so if you pair pens with inks from the same country the difference may largely disappear.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

that is true ! it seems like modern pelikans do not use ebonite feeds, but im amazed how they get such a wet flow using plastic feeds whereas Japanese pens use the same material and get drier nibs

Definitely due to engineering and not material. The material is likely the same or very similar (steel/gold nib, plastic feed; the only question would be which plastic, but I'm certain pen companies use pretty much the same type across the board with some exceptions).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

i do agree with you! i am curious to know if one puts a sailor feed on a pelikan nib or the opposite way around, will the nibs perform as they would on their original feeds ( in other words i want to narrow downs if its due to the nib or feed )

 

 

It would be difficult to say how much of the difference in flow is due to the nib versus the feed design. A Pelikan nib (for example) might not even be compatible with a Sailor feed since both parts need to be shaped to ensure a close fit that maintains capillary action. So, the suggested experiment (such as exchanging nibs between the two brands) might not lead to meaningful conclusions.

 

The nib tines on the two Sailors I own were initially very tightly closed at the tip and the nibs were very dry until they were broken in (1911 Standard H-F) or professionally adjusted (Realo H-M). Some other users have reported different experiences. I will say my Sailor feeds behave differently from most American or European feeds I have used in two ways: They fill through the "breather" holes rather than from the base of the feed, and they write absolutely normally to the last drop of ink in the pen, instead of becoming dry and skippy for the last paragraph or so.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

when your sailor was professionally adjusted, how wet did it run ? was it similar to pelikan wetness? the filling mechanism and writing till the last drop that you explained, did you mean it for the Japanese pens or the European ones ?

 

It would be difficult to say how much of the difference in flow is due to the nib versus the feed design. A Pelikan nib (for example) might not even be compatible with a Sailor feed since both parts need to be shaped to ensure a close fit that maintains capillary action. So, the suggested experiment (such as exchanging nibs between the two brands) might not lead to meaningful conclusions.

 

The nib tines on the two Sailors I own were initially very tightly closed at the tip and the nibs were very dry until they were broken in (1911 Standard H-F) or professionally adjusted (Realo H-M). Some other users have reported different experiences. I will say my Sailor feeds behave differently from most American or European feeds I have used in two ways: They fill through the "breather" holes rather than from the base of the feed, and they write absolutely normally to the last drop of ink in the pen, instead of becoming dry and skippy for the last paragraph or so.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The "good to the last drop" and breather hole comments were with regard to Sailor.

 

The flow in the Sailor Realo after a nibmeister (Dan Smith) adjusted it for me was roughly similar to a stock Pelikan M200 I used to own, and to a couple of other Pelikans I have now. Of course these things are hard to quantify, and furthermore the wetness of the adjusted Sailor reflects how I asked Dan to tune it, so your or anyone's results may differ.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The "good to the last drop" and breather hole comments were with regard to Sailor.

 

The flow in the Sailor Realo after a nibmeister (Dan Smith) adjusted it for me was roughly similar to a stock Pelikan M200 I used to own, and to a couple of other Pelikans I have now. Of course these things are hard to quantify, and furthermore the wetness of the adjusted Sailor reflects how I asked Dan to tune it, so your or anyone's results may differ.

 

yes you are absolutely true! i feel like they write to the last drop, and regarding the tuning, your also right since every nib meister is different

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Pelikan makes a dry ink, the 4001*, so makes a wet nib to meet in the middle. Waterman makes a wet ink....or was once considered wet ..... Some Noodler users consider Waterman a dry ink. :rolleyes:

So Waterman made a narrow nib with a wet ink, Pelikan a dryer ink and wider nib....both met in the middle.

* I doubt if Pelikan changed it's nibs for the 'new' somewhat wetter Edelstein inks.

 

I don't know anything about Japaneses pens....having no need for XXF or XXXF nibs.

 

Companies who make pens and inks match them...like MB is a medium to medium dry ink, with a somewhat wet nib.

Japanese makers will be matching their nib to their own ink....not other Japanese inks.

In reference to P. T. Barnum; to advise for free is foolish, ........busybodies are ill liked by both factions.

 

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, it depends on both the pen and the nib. My Platinum Plaisir, which has a medium nib, is pretty dry. And my Sailor Pro-Gear Slim, which has a zoom nib, is dry -- although I partly chalk that up to the unusual nib, and wouldn't necessarily presume that a normal nib would be dry. OTOH, my Pilot Decimo, which has a fine nib, is not dry.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

"It's very nice, but frankly, when I signed that list for a P-51, what I had in mind was a fountain pen."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

To all those who own (tried) both pens, i would like to ask why are western nibs (pelikans specifically) are know to be wetter than the Japanese nibs (considering same nib width on paper and not marking) . Is it because of the feed/nib material or the engineering of the feed/nib ?

 

The modern materials seem similar to me

  • Feeds: plastic, check
  • Nibs: gold, check

 

hmm... :huh:

 

My guess, Pelikans are wetter because they dive into water whereas Sailors like to stay dry on the boat :lol:

 

Seriously, all my unadjusted Pelikans are wetter than my comparable sized Sailors

 

I can only surmise it has to do with the nib shape and feed architecture. There are also some negative reports with Pelikan nib QC wherein nibs write broader than indicated.

 

That said, when I got my M101 ground, Mr. Mottishaw was able to tailor the flow down from the usual blast.

 

:wub: I love Pelikans and Sailors both are among my top brands for reliability and go to ness

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Pelikan pens are piston fillers with larger ink capacities—those tend to naturally put out more ink. Nib tipping width also plays a role. For instance Sailor Zoom and Music nibs tend to be pretty juicy. Both of my Music nibs (21K and 14K) put down a lot of ink. Fine nibs of the Japanese variety are tuned to write more dry, in order to maintain that very thin line on paper. With that said, my 21K Sailor F nib is a moderately wet writer, so there’s some variation. Both of my Sailor EF nibs (21K and 14K) are more dry, which is a good thing.

“I admit it, I'm surprised that fountain pens are a hobby. ... it's a bit like stumbling into a fork convention - when you've used a fork all your life.” 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

when your sailor was professionally adjusted, how wet did it run ? was it similar to pelikan wetness?

 

I would hope that it is as wet as the individual customer has requested, if a pen was professionally adjusted. I bought a Pelikan (and an Aurora) but not a Sailor from Nibsmith.com, and I specifically requested, as part of the nib work Dan Smith was doing for me as part and parcel of the transaction, that the ink flow is adjusted to suit the higher priority of line definition coming out of the EF-cum-crisp-Italic nib.

 

If you want your nib to be wet, then ask for it to be adjusted so, hopefully not with such descriptions as "similar to pelikan wetness" but in some way that the nibmeister can accommodate, test and verify. If you want your nib to be drier, then ask for that.

 

Pelikan pens are piston fillers with larger ink capacities

 

 

Some Pelikan fountain pens are. Pelikan P20x models are still fountain pens that rightly bears the brand name.

I endeavour to be frank and truthful in what I write, show or otherwise present, when I relate my first-hand experiences that are not independently verifiable; and link to third-party content where I can, when I make a claim or refute a statement of fact in a thread. If there is something you can verify for yourself, I entreat you to do so, and judge for yourself what is right, correct, and valid. I may be wrong, and my position or say-so is no more authoritative and carries no more weight than anyone else's here.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Smug Dill is correct that the Sailor Realo I mentioned was tuned by Dan Smith to my request, as I tried to say above, and I used the numerical scale given on Dan's website to specify wetness and smoothness, and not any comparison to Pelikan or other pen brands. The comparison I made above was just to answer the OP's question.

 

Dan also did a great job of maintaining that special Sailor personality in the nib (the "pencil-like feedback") also as I asked.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

I would hope that it is as wet as the individual customer has requested, if a pen was professionally adjusted. I bought a Pelikan (and an Aurora) but not a Sailor from Nibsmith.com, and I specifically requested, as part of the nib work Dan Smith was doing for me as part and parcel of the transaction, that the ink flow is adjusted to suit the higher priority of line definition coming out of the EF-cum-crisp-Italic nib.

 

If you want your nib to be wet, then ask for it to be adjusted so, hopefully not with such descriptions as "similar to pelikan wetness" but in some way that the nibmeister can accommodate, test and verify. If you want your nib to be drier, then ask for that.

 

 

 

Some Pelikan fountain pens are. Pelikan P20x models are still fountain pens that rightly bears the brand name.

 

that is right, im wondering if its better to order from nibsmith, nibs.com or any other Japanese retainer

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Smug Dill is correct that the Sailor Realo I mentioned was tuned by Dan Smith to my request, as I tried to say above, and I used the numerical scale given on Dan's website to specify wetness and smoothness, and not any comparison to Pelikan or other pen brands. The comparison I made above was just to answer the OP's question.

 

Dan also did a great job of maintaining that special Sailor personality in the nib (the "pencil-like feedback") also as I asked.

i adore the sailor feedback! that’s why i'm a huge fan or sailors! what wetness did you choose ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Pelikan pens are piston fillers with larger ink capacities—those tend to naturally put out more ink. Nib tipping width also plays a role. For instance Sailor Zoom and Music nibs tend to be pretty juicy. Both of my Music nibs (21K and 14K) put down a lot of ink. Fine nibs of the Japanese variety are tuned to write more dry, in order to maintain that very thin line on paper. With that said, my 21K Sailor F nib is a moderately wet writer, so there’s some variation. Both of my Sailor EF nibs (21K and 14K) are more dry, which is a good thing.

you have a point there, i'm wondering if a piston filler would push ink out of then nib more by gravity

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, it depends on both the pen and the nib. My Platinum Plaisir, which has a medium nib, is pretty dry. And my Sailor Pro-Gear Slim, which has a zoom nib, is dry -- although I partly chalk that up to the unusual nib, and wouldn't necessarily presume that a normal nib would be dry. OTOH, my Pilot Decimo, which has a fine nib, is not dry.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

why who are sailors in your opinion even drier than the pilots ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

The modern materials seem similar to me

  • Feeds: plastic, check
  • Nibs: gold, check

 

hmm... :huh:

 

My guess, Pelikans are wetter because they dive into water whereas Sailors like to stay dry on the boat :lol:

 

Seriously, all my unadjusted Pelikans are wetter than my comparable sized Sailors

 

I can only surmise it has to do with the nib shape and feed architecture. There are also some negative reports with Pelikan nib QC wherein nibs write broader than indicated.

 

That said, when I got my M101 ground, Mr. Mottishaw was able to tailor the flow down from the usual blast.

 

:wub: I love Pelikans and Sailors both are among my top brands for reliability and go to ness

yes ! you have point there, mine too !

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Most Contributions

    1. amberleadavis
      amberleadavis
      43844
    2. PAKMAN
      PAKMAN
      33474
    3. Ghost Plane
      Ghost Plane
      28220
    4. inkstainedruth
      inkstainedruth
      26573
    5. jar
      jar
      26101
  • Upcoming Events

  • Blog Comments

    • Shanghai Knife Dude
      I have the Sailor Naginata and some fancy blade nibs coming after 2022 by a number of new workshop from China.  With all my respect, IMHO, they are all (bleep) in doing chinese characters.  Go use a bush, or at least a bush pen. 
    • A Smug Dill
      It is the reason why I'm so keen on the idea of a personal library — of pens, nibs, inks, paper products, etc. — and spent so much money, as well as time and effort, to “build” it for myself (because I can't simply remember everything, especially as I'm getting older fast) and my wife, so that we can “know”; and, instead of just disposing of what displeased us, or even just not good enough to be “given the time of day” against competition from >500 other pens and >500 other inks for our at
    • adamselene
      Agreed.  And I think it’s good to be aware of this early on and think about at the point of buying rather than rationalizing a purchase..
    • A Smug Dill
      Alas, one cannot know “good” without some idea of “bad” against which to contrast; and, as one of my former bosses (back when I was in my twenties) used to say, “on the scale of good to bad…”, it's a spectrum, not a dichotomy. Whereas subjectively acceptable (or tolerable) and unacceptable may well be a dichotomy to someone, and finding whether the threshold or cusp between them lies takes experiencing many degrees of less-than-ideal, especially if the decision is somehow influenced by factors o
    • adamselene
      I got my first real fountain pen on my 60th birthday and many hundreds of pens later I’ve often thought of what I should’ve known in the beginning. I have many pens, the majority of which have some objectionable feature. If they are too delicate, or can’t be posted, or they are too precious to face losing , still they are users, but only in very limited environments..  I have a big disliking for pens that have the cap jump into the air and fly off. I object to Pens that dry out, or leave blobs o
  • Chatbox

    You don't have permission to chat.
    Load More
  • Files






×
×
  • Create New...