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Authenticating Montblanc Resin?

montblanc knockoff authenticate resin black precious resin

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20 replies to this topic

#1 goodpens

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Posted 07 February 2020 - 17:40

TL/DR version:

Do knockoffs of black Montblanc pens ever have the characteristic wine red glow to the resin?

 

 

Longer version: 

I recently bought a Montblanc at an antique store: 

  • Black with silver-toned (likely platinum) trim.
  • 13.7cm long capped; 15 cm long posted. 
  • Nib=18K, unmarked but apparently EF 
  • Cartridge/converter fill. 
  • Lousy pic quality available or I'd post. Comparing it to a current production model, it looks identical to the Meisterstuck Platinum-Coated Classique, which has a 14K (not 18K, as mine) nib.

 

This was a one-on-one sale; the stall owner seemed to know very little about FPs. Too much detail to provide here, but everything about the interaction and her stall gave me every reason to believe that she believed this to be an authentic Montblanc. In other words: if this is a fake, she was duped; I don't believe she was trying to dupe me in any way at all. 

 

I can't identify the pen. Called Montblanc and the serial number doesn't correspond with a FP in their records (though maybe with a ballpoint). Was told I could go through the process of sending it in for authentication. 

 

After detailed review of things to watch for in knockoff Montblancs, everything about this looks legit to me (clip shape, Pix, band with engraved SN and "Germany," quality of the snowflake emblem, springiness of gold nib, weight/balance, quality of the screw-in convertor, quality of engraving of Montblanc name, and the reddish/wine-colored tint of the black precious resin). If this is a knockoff, it is of incredibly high quality.

 

Part of me wants to know if this is authentic. Part of me doesn't care. I'm inclined not to go through the trouble of sending it in for authentication; I'd rather just enjoy it. (The feed needs another good soak, but it is in excellent condition otherwise.)

 

It seems to me that the color of the resin would be incredibly hard to knock off. So what I'm curious about is: are there known instances of the wine-tinted black resin being present in knockoffs? Or is its presence an indicator of the real deal?

 

Searched the forums for related info, but didn't find anything.

 

Thanks for any info/advice!


Edited by goodpens, 07 February 2020 - 17:50.


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#2 OCArt

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Posted 07 February 2020 - 19:20

I have a Chinese copy of a MB that also has the red color when transilluminated.  I was surprised a bit as I thought the red color *was* a sign of authenticity. 


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#3 goodpens

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Posted 07 February 2020 - 19:34

I have a Chinese copy of a MB that also has the red color when transilluminated.  I was surprised a bit as I thought the red color *was* a sign of authenticity. 

 

Hmm. Bummer--for both of us. But thank you!



#4 CS388

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Posted 07 February 2020 - 23:56

 

 If this is a knockoff, it is of incredibly high quality.

 

 

Well, they are very good imitations, these days - right down to the writing quality.

I had one once and only discovered it was a fake by Googling the serial number, which revealed countless other copies with the exact same number.

 

Two quick checks you could do:

1: See if a magnet is attracted to the nib - real gold will not react to a magnet.

2: There should be a notch at the section end of the feed - despite the counterfeiters being very precise, they seemed to miss this feature. It's difficult to describe, but there are posts elsewhere in this forum which document it with photos.

 

Hope you got a good one!

Fingers crossed.


Edited by CS388, 07 February 2020 - 23:57.


#5 zaddick

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Posted 08 February 2020 - 00:46

Yes fakes can flow red as authentic. CS388 has the solid advice. Fake pens will not have a gold nib.

If you want less blah, blah, blah and more pictures, follow me on Instagram!


#6 Parker51

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Posted 08 February 2020 - 03:44

Montblanc pens are transparent to light of certain wave lengths. Thus, if you have access to the correct equipment it is possible to determine if the pen is translucent to light the same as a known genuine Montblanc pen is. While not definitive, the likelihood that someone would copy the resin so that it would have this characteristic is highly unlikely. I have not tried it myself as I do not have access to a lab with the needed equipment.

#7 goodpens

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Posted 08 February 2020 - 05:15

Thank you CS388, Zaddick, and Parker 51.

Id forgotten about the magnet test! Good news: magnet wasnt attracted to the nib.

And there is a notch in the feed.

Really appreciate your feedback. Have learned a lot in the past 24 hours! The ink flow seems dry; believe I need to keep soaking it and that, once really clean, I will have an excellent writer.

#8 Olya

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Posted 08 February 2020 - 14:18

The resin of Pelikan's m2xx range is just a red-black translucent under strong light as Montblanc pens are. They all use regular resin, nothing extra special which produces some sort of extra(odinary) feature (red-black translucency).



#9 Parker51

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Posted 08 February 2020 - 16:50

Given the pens are made in the same Country, perhaps the resin comes from the same source. I am unaware of any fakes coming out of Germany, or using high quality resin, but it is theoretically possible.

#10 ardene

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Posted 10 February 2020 - 15:00

Judging from my experience with MB FPs the translucency is concentrated in a small part of the pen body changing with the angle the pen is hit by light, the reddish hue is very dark and limited to a small area of the pen again changinging with the angle the pen is held, and the pen appears overall very brown under direct sunlight or yellow electric light and black in cloudy conditions or phosphorescent white light.



#11 CS388

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Posted 10 February 2020 - 21:13

Thank you CS388, Zaddick, and Parker 51.

Id forgotten about the magnet test! Good news: magnet wasnt attracted to the nib.

And there is a notch in the feed.

Really appreciate your feedback. Have learned a lot in the past 24 hours! The ink flow seems dry; believe I need to keep soaking it and that, once really clean, I will have an excellent writer.

 

Excellent! Congratulations!

You've got a great pen, there.

 

Flow issue sounds like classic unused for many years syndrome!

It's probably dried up ink clogging some of the feed channels.

 

First thing: Soak and flush.

 

Soak the full section in a glass of clean tap water, overnight.

If you've got time, give it two nights - you'd be surprised how much can come out and how long it can take!

If it's been holed up in a store for years, it could take many overnight soaks to clean, thoroughly.

Patience is your friend, when it comes to soaking.

Impatience seems to be my friend. I blow through mine to flush through. Both directions.*

 

Hopefully soaking alone will do the trick.

If not, there are pen-flush solutions, ultra-sonic cleaners, and finally: dismantling and manually cleaning.

But, one step at a time, eh?

 

Good luck.

 

*Not recommended by some, but I've done it since I was a schoolboy. No problems, yet.

  But, you might get inky lips - so, don't clean your pen just before your big important meeting!



#12 OCArt

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Posted 10 February 2020 - 21:47

Curious, I don't have a M200 in black but I just checked the cap of my M1000 and didn't see the red color with transmitted light.

The resin of Pelikan's m2xx range is just a red-black translucent under strong light as Montblanc pens are. They all use regular resin, nothing extra special which produces some sort of extra(odinary) feature (red-black translucency).


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#13 goodpens

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Posted 10 February 2020 - 22:32

 
Excellent! Congratulations!
You've got a great pen, there.
 
Flow issue sounds like classic unused for many years syndrome!
It's probably dried up ink clogging some of the feed channels.
 
First thing: Soak and flush.
 
Soak the full section in a glass of clean tap water, overnight.
If you've got time, give it two nights - you'd be surprised how much can come out and how long it can take!
If it's been holed up in a store for years, it could take many overnight soaks to clean, thoroughly.
Patience is your friend, when it comes to soaking.
Impatience seems to be my friend. I blow through mine to flush through. Both directions.*
 
Hopefully soaking alone will do the trick.
If not, there are pen-flush solutions, ultra-sonic cleaners, and finally: dismantling and manually cleaning.
But, one step at a time, eh?
 
Good luck.
 
*Not recommended by some, but I've done it since I was a schoolboy. No problems, yet.
  But, you might get inky lips - so, don't clean your pen just before your big important meeting!


Excellent. Thanks. Soaking has helped, but it isnt quite there yet. Using the pen today (and trying a 3rd ink to see how that is factoring in) and will soak again tonight. Thanks for the inky lips warning! ;)

#14 Olya

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Posted 10 February 2020 - 23:58

Curious, I don't have a M200 in black but I just checked the cap of my M1000 and didn't see the red color with transmitted light.

Strange. I just switched on the torchlight on my phone and put the cap of my m205 on the light and it definitely glows red. As does most of the body (eg not the piston knob, but I suspect that's because there's some stuff there for the mechanism so light can't fully penetrate that bit of the pen).



#15 CS388

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Posted 11 February 2020 - 00:34

Montblanc pens are transparent to light of certain wave lengths. Thus, if you have access to the correct equipment it is possible to determine if the pen is translucent to light the same as a known genuine Montblanc pen is. While not definitive, the likelihood that someone would copy the resin so that it would have this characteristic is highly unlikely. I have not tried it myself as I do not have access to a lab with the needed equipment.

 

Yes, correct.

i've seen the red glow on other models - including the Chinese copies.

With the naked eye it's difficult to discern subtle differences.

And there will inevitably be differences within the genuine Montblanc stock itself, over the years.

I don't think the red light test is any longer a badge of authenticiy, in itself.

 

Olya: Yes, same on a Pelikan I had. I'm sure you're right about the inner mechanisms blocking the light in certain parts. But, through an empty barrel or cap, I've noticed red tints in other black resin pens, when exposed to a strong light.

 

Regards. CS


Edited by CS388, 11 February 2020 - 00:35.


#16 txomsy

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Posted 11 February 2020 - 09:44

What is the model number? Maybe you are not familiar with it, but it is the correct one.

 

Sometimes, the nib type was also inscribed close to the model number. Look for it.

 

A picture (even one made with a lousy cell phone) is worth a thousand words.

 

I wouldn't care that much about the resin. As others have said, nowadays you can mimick almost anything, and soon you'll probably be able to even 3D-scan and print almost anything. It is the fine detail that usually tells out the clones. Even so, a heavily used, worn out pen may fail on some points. OTOH, it is currently doubtful that someone would clone a used fountain pen (less potential benefit and more work), so a worn out pen is more likely to be old and less likely to be fake... but not always, depends on model, obviously.


Edited by txomsy, 11 February 2020 - 09:45.


#17 goodpens

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Posted 11 February 2020 - 13:23

What is the model number? Maybe you are not familiar with it, but it is the correct one.
 
Sometimes, the nib type was also inscribed close to the model number. Look for it.
 
A picture (even one made with a lousy cell phone) is worth a thousand words.
 
I wouldn't care that much about the resin. As others have said, nowadays you can mimick almost anything, and soon you'll probably be able to even 3D-scan and print almost anything. It is the fine detail that usually tells out the clones. Even so, a heavily used, worn out pen may fail on some points. OTOH, it is currently doubtful that someone would clone a used fountain pen (less potential benefit and more work), so a worn out pen is more likely to be old and less likely to be fake... but not always, depends on model, obviously.


Thanks. Appreciate the suggestions!
I believe this is a 145.
Where do you think I should look for an inscription re: nib? I have looked and looked and cannot find an indication, but maybe I do not know where to look.

#18 FredRydr

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Posted 11 February 2020 - 15:11

Sometimes, the nib type was also inscribed close to the model number. Look for it.

 

@txomsy, Please post a photo of your Montblanc pen (less than is 60 years old) with such an inscription close to a model number.



#19 txomsy

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Posted 11 February 2020 - 19:58

Just checked. Won't show on a picture with my cell phone. But my parent's ·3-42G is labeled

 

M

3-42G

 

in the piston knob. That was from my parents and must be from the 50's, 60's at most. I do not know if earlier pens lacked an inscription. If that is the case, please, do accept my apologies.



#20 Olya

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Posted 14 February 2020 - 17:31

If anyone cares, the black resin of Sailor's Promenade model also shines red when loads of light hits the material (eg set the cap or barrel on the torchlight of your phone). Same for the Young Proft. And the Pilot Prera, but that one's brown, so hardly surprising :D B)

 

I was beginning to think they all black resin pens shine red, but not so! A vintage black Parker shines very green (letting a lot of light through), whereas a vintage Sheaffer won't let any light through, but a vintage Waterman shines red.







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