I Don't "get" The Sailor/wancher Thing

[whichwatch]

Why is Sailor willing to produce such a large number of their pens in many of their most popular shapes and so many colors/finishes for sale under the Wancher name?

 

I can't see how this doesn't represent dilution of the Silor brand. While one might suggest it represents additional sales for Sailor, I would think a lot of those are sales Sailor could and would have made under their own name and presumably at a higher margin if marketed that way through their own distribution.

 

I completely understand unique items like the Wancher Japan Blue, which in fact I own. But producing what amounts to a basic 1911 with the Wancher name? It's not like Sailor doesn't produce these in a huge array of colors that they could easily extend further. Even their flagship King of Pen gets produced as Wancher models.

 

I thoroughly understand the concept of "brand labelling" which is common in many industries. We are all aware that some well known ink companies produce inks sold under other company names. But the brands are kept distinct. In the case of Wancher pens, many/most contain parts that still bear the Sailor logo.

 

I don't get it. Can an expert explain?

[Uncial]

They do the same through Pent pens too. Perhaps its a restriction on how many products a company can produce annually?

[aurore]

A great ado. Btw if you check Sailor website you will see they are also involved in making industrial robots

Edited January 24, 2020 by aurore

[WLSpec]

Perhaps its a restriction on how many products a company can produce annually?

Yes, maybe

 

They do it under a lot of people. Nagasawa, which is a Japanese stationary store, under Bungubox (I believe another stationary store) and obviously Wancher, along with many others.

 

Other companies do this too. Platinum does it with Wancher, and some other companies do it with Bungubox, and it also looks like Bexley did a collaboration with Wancher.

 

Now I'm curious too. Why are some of these companies doing it? But yes, Sailor is the main company for sure. Some of those Sailor x Bungubox and Sailor x Wancher pens are amazing though... I really like that wancher Hawaiian one

Edited January 24, 2020 by WLSpec

[WLSpec]

Just noting that the Wancher x Sailor pens are sold on Amazon by Sailor. That's interesting.

[mauckcg]

Just noting that the Wancher x Sailor pens are sold on Amazon by Sailor. That's interesting.

Pensachi i think.

 

I don't have an issue with it. My issue is all of these stores will not ship outside of Japan.

[Karmachanic]

Same way Sailor makes store specific inks.

What I don't "get" is demonstrator converter pens.

[Tseg]

Why is Sailor willing to produce such a large number of their pens in many of their most popular shapes and so many colors/finishes for sale under the Wancher name?

 

I would think a lot of those are sales Sailor could and would have made under their own name and presumably at a higher margin if marketed that way through their own distribution.

 

 

As we always say at work when we have an initiative to grow share at the expense of margin, "make it up with volume".

 

There is something to be said of the power of a strong, disciplined brand, but also to be said for the power of a ubiquitous brand. They are not necessarily distinct and can compliment each other if discipline is excercised. As far as I know, these co-branded pens are all held to a minimum quality standard, which would be essential to support the brand. Expanding distribution in many situations can be a very good thing for a brand... but I agree co-branding a flagship like KoP may be questionable (or not)… depends on the reputation of your branding partner.

[whichwatch]

Yes, maybe

 

They do it under a lot of people. Nagasawa, which is a Japanese stationary store, under Bungubox (I believe another stationary store) and obviously Wancher, along with many others.

 

Other companies do this too. Platinum does it with Wancher, and some other companies do it with Bungubox, and it also looks like Bexley did a collaboration with Wancher.

 

Now I'm curious too. Why are some of these companies doing it? But yes, Sailor is the main company for sure. Some of those Sailor x Bungubox and Sailor x Wancher pens are amazing though... I really like that wancher Hawaiian one

 

 

I can understand a company producing a unique or small number of special designs for a specific store or chain, such as Nagasawa or Bung Box. That is also common in the US. But while I might be wrong, I think Wancher is simply another brand of pens. I could understand Sailor making pens for Wancher to be branded and sold under the Wancher name, much as happens with ink. But in the case of Wancher, Sailor is allowing their trademarked name and logos to be left on the product being sold under a different brand.

 

I realize that company relationships and cooperations in Japan are very different than in the US where I live, but I continue to have trouble understanding why Sailor sees this as an advantageous relationship.

[Doug C]

Tazio (owns Wancher) used to have a site called Engeika, and I believe he developed a relationship with Sailor at that time. At one point, I got a Sailor Koshu Inden (deer skin and urushi) from Tazio for half the price it was anywhere else.

 

I waited for a month, then another month, and eventually emailed him on the delay. He said 'they are still making it for me'.

 

I had lost faith but almost a year (!) later I got the pen.

[stan]

It is all about moving 'product' and bottom line. As long as third-party or stealth sellers do not damage or disparage the brand, they don't care. It is possible they may be thinking that a customer who purchases a Wancher might want to move up to a real Sailor some day. I consider that wishful thinking.

[aimi]

On the other hand, I wish Pilot would follow suit in at least some way and make their Custom and Custom Heritage lines (specifically the 912, 743, and 823) in more colours...

[DonM]

On the other hand, I wish Pilot would follow suit in at least some way and make their Custom and Custom Heritage lines (specifically the 912, 743, and 823) in more colours...

Couldn't agree more. I'd love to see Pilot produce some more interesting resins. I think the difference between Pilot and Sailor is that Sailor is a relatively small company and so sees additional market in these collaborations. Pilot is huge, and I would guess that fountain pens account for a very small portion of their business.

[A Smug Dill]

Pensachi i think.

 

I don't have an issue with it. My issue is all of these stores will not ship outside of Japan.

 

Nagasawa Stationery Centre will accept international orders and ship outside of Japan, if you order its "original" fountain pens ("collaborations" made by Sailor, Platinum or Nakaya) through Rakuten Global Market. Pent does as well (for its "collaboration" pen models with Sailor and Onishi-seisakusho).

 

On the other hand, I wish Pilot would follow suit in at least some way and make their Custom and Custom Heritage lines (specifically the 912, 743, and 823) in more colours...

 

I'd prefer to see Pilot do more of what Platinum does with the #3776 line, and offer the Custom pen models with different materials and finishes, e.g. light or dark briar, yakusugi wood, celluloid, ebonite, kanazawa-haku, etc. to keep fans and collectors interested. So far Pilot has only made the Custom Kaede with a #10 nib — so I guess that's the equivalent of a Custom 742, and at the same price, too — and the Custom Enjyu and (discontinued) Custom Ichii with #15 nibs, which is the equivalent of a Custom 845.

Edited January 25, 2020 by A Smug Dill

[senzen]

As far as I can tell, they are collaborations with (stores?). I really like some of these editions, but can never justify the price, particularly for the north american exclusives.

[aimi]

I'd prefer to see Pilot do more of what Platinum does with the #3776 line, and offer the Custom pen models with different materials and finishes, e.g. light or dark briar, yakusugi wood, celluloid, ebonite, kanazawa-haku, etc. to keep fans and collectors interested. So far Pilot has only made the Custom Kaede with a #10 nib — so I guess that's the equivalent of a Custom 742, and at the same price, too — and the Custom Enjyu and (discontinued) Custom Ichii with #15 nibs, which is the equivalent of a Custom 845.

 

For the CH 912 I’m aware of one collaboration similar to Sailor’s, which is the Ultra Seven (Japanese tv show) pen that came with a matching, engraved nib albeit only in fine. According to reddit, it was made for Takashimaya department store. Probably too bright for many, but I personally love it and would be excited to find one (if only...).

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/fountainpens/comments/6ml408/pilot_custom_912_ultraseven_limited_edition/

Edited January 25, 2020 by aimi

[MWHITE]

Having a low ceiling on the $$ I can spend on fountain pens, I appreciate things like -SAILOR 1911 LE SET PROFIT MAKI-E FUDE MANNEN FOUNTAIN PEN

Which are slowly appearing for sale in the US. This set includes a very nice brush pen too.

[Algester]

What have I been doing in my life and posting stuff I could find from a certain magazine...

 

Pilot does colab pens but every so often as Sailor does and their smogasborg of inks...

Edited January 26, 2020 by Algester

[Doug C]

I do have to admit that, as much as I love Sailor pens, they tend to produce a lot of the same pen over and over in slightly different color combinations.

 

I also have a little bit of an issue with the differentiation between the pens in the lower end. I bought a Wancher SE (I can't remember the name of it) but it has the classic Sailor shape, is orange, and has a steel nib. I paid $30 for it and I cannot tell any deference between it and a number of their pens priced below $100.

 

As a result, I have a King of Pen with the Togi nib, an older 1911 demonstrator, a Koshu Inden (dearskin and urushi) and this wancher pen.

 

I don't feel the need to get another Sailor since I have pretty much covered the spectrum of their offerings IMO.

Edited January 27, 2020 by Doug C

[TaizoOkagaki]

Actually, all the colors and concepts are made by Wancher. Sailor only helps us make the pen with those requirements.