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Advice For Buying Vintage Fountain Pens


MadAsAHatter

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Thus far my purchases have been for new pens. Based on the feedback by Honeybadgers from another post I purchased my first vintage pen, a 1990's Pilot Juliet. Now I feel really old calling the 90's vintage but I digress. Anyway I've decided that the next pen or two I decide to get, I want to get something vintage. I also plan to use them and not just collect & display. Except for maybe needing a basic cleaning I'm not ready to jump into any kind of repairs. Outside of the obvious to avoid anything with big chips, cracks or anything that looks like it's gone through a trash compactor I really don't know what to look for. Of course I'll do my due diligence before I purchase if anything catches my eye, but I also want to be armed with some extra knowledge so I don't get ripped off buying a fake or overpaying for something that's a dime a dozen. This is where I seek guidance. What advice can you all offer to a first time vintage pen buyer that's still learning the hobby?

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Focus on a brand and learn how to restore.

Edited by Estycollector

"Respect science, respect nature, respect all people (s),"

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I collect German vintage pens, only have a few from the '30's.......most from '50-70.......after that I call '70-97 semi-vintage. Modern after that in Pelikan. With MB '50-70 is vintage, '70- to when ever they changed off of a regular flex nib '80 or '90, semi-vintage and '80-now modern.

I do not consider a modern pen like that '90's Pilot to be more than a semi- vintage pen.

 

Vintage Shaffer Snorkels, a grand balanced thin large pen is going cheap right now....of course you have to pay to have the rubber sack replaced....rubber only lasts so long.

It has grand balanced posted. I was actually surprised it was a large pen, in it didn't feel it, due to it's thinness. It's the only Large pen I have with great balance.....my Large 146 '70-80 (dated from the feed) is semi-vintage and for it's size light and almost nimble...has fair balance. My vintage '50-70 medium-large 146, has great balance and a much better nib.

 

I prefer standard sized pens like the Esterebrook, Pelikan 200/400 and many other '30-70 pens in that size, in it was back in my day the standard sized pen.

The medium-large P-51 was considered by me back then as a large pen.....then came in the Shaffer PFM, the fat large Pen For Men that didn't sell that well ...in I never saw one outside of TV and magazine adds.

 

I don't know if the Imperial is thicker, than the Snorkel, but some are very, very beautiful....and not as over priced as new pens.

A Great Vintage pen is the silver P-75, perfectly balanced, IMO, even more than the classic P-51.

 

For me I chase 'real' vintage pens for the balance it had to have to sell when everyone wrote 8 hours a day and not jotting some notes. The nibs were better and sadly that may have to do with the fact the average paper back then was better than average paper now. So one expected the more one got.

Edited by Bo Bo Olson

In reference to P. T. Barnum; to advise for free is foolish, ........busybodies are ill liked by both factions.

 

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 

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For your first vintage purchase, I would recomend buying from a reputable dealer who will have restored the pen properly. A good place to start is Peyton Street Pens: they have an excellent range and they are reasonably priced.

 

Some other people that you can rely on include Ron Zorn at Main Street Pens, Will at Redeem Pens, and David Nishimura's Vintage Pens

Vintage. Cursive italic. Iron gall.

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If you want a turn key pen then I would recommend buying from someone who restores their inventory and does it correctly. Buying them this way will be more money but you dont have to put forward the work needed to get the pen working again or fall victim of clueless ebay sellers that do not deal in pens. Buying them "as is" is cheaper at first glance but can get pricey in the long run if you send it out to get restored or need hard to find parts for said pen. Since its your first time I would recommend going with an already working one then purchasing one to send out to someone.

 

 

 

 

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In addition to focusing on one or two brands I suggest determining what characteristics you want in a pen. Nib type, shape, white or yellow furniture, flat top, rounded, filler type, and so on. Determine what your budget is. Spend time digging around in Classifieds.

 

Don't hurry.

Add lightness and simplicate.

 

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+1 to @silverlifter: buy from a reputable dealer so you can get a satisfying experience with a quality working pen.

 

I've had good vintage from both Ron at Main Street Pens and Teri at Peyton Street Pens

 

Also had good buys from Bob of SpeerBob who sometimes posts in The Mall

 

Don't be afraid to ask questions. Part of the fun is learning about all the history and care, something that makes vintage distinct from moderns.

 

Also what @Karmachanic said: no rush, no hurry. Just when you thought that is the last of this X pen, another one will show up.

 

Well maybe not an affordable Pelikan 100 with gelb binde :P

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Avoid ebay and stick with reputable vintage companies until you're familiar with vintage pens and their common flaws.

 

Thepenmarket, Greg minuskin, main street pens, etc.

Selling a boatload of restored, fairly rare, vintage Japanese gold nib pens, click here to see (more added as I finish restoring them)

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May I suggest you consider vintage Esterbrook pens from the 1930's through the mid 1950's. The same diaphrams and j bars work in all of these models. There are suppliers like Anderson Pens which carry the replacement parts.

 

The pens are made of excellent materials. The pen's personality can be changed by replacing with a wide variety of nibs. I've restored about a dozen pens since the Fall of 2019 and have not been disappointed.

 

Several videos are available on YouTube to help you learn to restore.

 

For me the Esterbrook is the height of form and function. While other lever fill brands exist, the durability of the Esterbrook plastic or hard black rubber is surprisingly durable even 90 years later.

"Respect science, respect nature, respect all people (s),"

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1/ Condition is everything - especially if you don't want to spend time repairing stuff.

 

2/ The cheap vintage pen on e-bay ("in the wild") has probably been sitting in Uncle Walt's drawer for the last thirty or forty years. Buying it means you are going to find out why - if you are lucky, he started using ballpoint, if you are unlucky - it will be an expensive, or tedious repair.

 

Parts can be more expensive than the pen itself. I got "lucky" on a Parker 51 - the pen itself cost £5 or less, with a Shaeffer ballpoint. The pen arrived, and the cap was broken - the pen cost £5 - the replacement cap £25. Ok, a Parker 51 mark 4 for £30 isn't bad - but you need to be aware of the time (cleaning out a sac of dried ink can take afternoons) and the cost of parts.

 

3/ There are reputable second hand dealers on here - you pay more, but you also get a good pen that will work for years with a reasonable nib. I bought a Parker 51 for £120 off a pen restorer on e-bay. I filled it, and it wrote like a dream - still does. I paid more, but I didn't get the hassle from point 2. So, yes some vintage pens are a dime a dozen (P51), but quality vintage is worth more - so you will pay more, but choose your seller carefully and you will get more.

 

4/ If you can get yourself to a pen shop or pen club - you can play with the pens and see which one you like the best, and talk to people about them & learn. Take a loupe, if you have one so you can get a good look.

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Well, now in regard to Vintage pens, please be aware they can be fragile, typically more so than contemporary pens. This varies from brand to brand and model to model and color to color, yes, color makes a difference due to the difference in the material composition used to derive specific colors, or color combinations. As a result of this situation, I suggest that you buy your first vintage pen from someone else with the skill to restore the pen without damaging it and who provides a guaranty.

 

I know Peyton Street pens will repair or replace a pen that fails to fill/ leaks for one full year, as they did so for me. And if when you first get the pen, if there is a problem with the pen, such as the nib is scratchy, you can send it back and they will smooth it, as they did this for a friend of mine. Most of the time you will not need any service for a pen purchased from Peyton Street pens, but they sell a lot of pens, most are vintage, and so sometimes there are problems, which they will take care of.

 

In regard to Ron Zorn, he sells many fewer vintage pens and in my experiance if it is one he has restored, there will be no problems. He has restored pens for me and when there have been problems with the pens he has addressed them promptly, as part of the restoration process and kept me informed of the situation. His price points are about the same as Peyton Street, but due to sales being a minor part of his business, his selection is much smaller.

 

In regard to which models to focus on, that depends largely on what you find comfortable and esthetically pleasing. Yes, Sheafffer Snorkels are underpriced for what you get, but they are rather thin.

 

A similar pen in size that is even more underpriced is the Eversharp Symphony, but it is a light thin pen as well.

 

A thicker pen that is underpriced is the Sheaffer Imperial in its many variations and derivations, especially the cartridge fill.

 

If you want to go the other way however in regard to thickness and stay with a thin pen, consider the Waterman C/F, which can often be found at excellent prices, but be aware that the cartridges for this pen are no longer made, nor are the convertors for it, so, if you buy one without a convertor, you will need to buy the convertor, which may cost half as much as the pen, depending on the availability of convertors which can't be predicted as NOS supplies in the market are gradually depleted while episodically replenished when new sources are discovered.

 

And in regard to the venerable Parker 51. If you buy an Aerometric filler model (from 1947 or later) you likely will not need the filling mechanism restored. For this reason as well as due to certain other things collectors value in earlier Parker 51s, they are a comparative bargain to the earlier Vacumatic filler and Blue Diamond ones (some people pay a premium for early model pens, some for ones with unusual caps, some for unusual or rare variations in filling mechanisms, some o get a blue diamond on the cap, etc.). I am not going to,say it is impossible to need a repair or restoration on a later model Parker 51, but I can say I have never needed one and most of my early ones purchased unrestored have needed work done on them, at least getting a new diaphragm.

 

In regard to Parker 21s, yes a bargain, sometimes. Sometimes as sometimes the nibs are in poor condition. Often the pens being everyday objects got heavy use, even the ones which appear visually to be in good condition.

 

And don't forget the Parker 45, not a very old pen, but certainly old and typically a bargain, especially the ones with gold nibs and even more so the ones with unusual nibs, but be aware that if they were not kept in a climate controlled environment their barrels may be slightly deformed and while this will not typically effect performance, it does bother some people.

 

As I review this I realized all this advice may be moot as you may not want a pen from the late 1940s through the early 1960s. You may want something earlier. If so, then you are getting into the era when cost goes up considerably to get quality as many of the pens were made of early plastics and before that, hard rubber. Both categories have material problems that plague early Fountain Pens. To get what you want you may need to compromise. Black is the safest color of the early plastics and it typically is cheaper. Some of the prettiest pens of the 30 s are literally falling apart. Earlier beautiful hard rubber pens are oxidizing and becoming discolored and there is no safe and reliable way to restore them to their original appearence.

 

Bargains amongst the early Fountain Pens are found in smaller sizes. The larger the pen is, the higher price it is, with Oversize pens commanding a stiff premium.

 

Early Sheaffer's pens are typically underpriced compared to Parker pens. Other first tier Pens are typically overpriced due principally to their rarity. Waterman Pens however are also a bargain, especially the ones from the 1930s and 1920s. Be aware that almost all pens from this period will need to be restored. And, of you do it yourself and you don't have the knowledge, practice and skills needed, you likely will break some of them when repairing them. I know skilled hobbiest with years of experiance that break vintage pens doing simple repairs of these old pens. To limit this, first practice on old pens of little value and develop patience and a feel for the materials and designs of the era.

 

And again, welcome to the Vintage side were you can get the best of the old for a fraction of the cost of the mediocre new and much less than the best of the new, unless you are a collector and are willing and able to pay high prices for a pen based on perceived and valued rarity.

Edited by Parker51
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MadAsAHatter

 

I will largely mirror what others have said. Make your first couple of purchases from a reputable dealer.

 

and....

 

Read through this forum. Focus on a couple brands first. Read heavily in this group (Fountain pens and dip-first stop), (Repair Q&A), and whatever couple brands you fancy. For me, it meant reading a lot of Shaeffer, Parker, Waterman, and Wahl forums under the "brand focus" segment of this website.

 

As you go through the forum you will start to notice things like.....

This type of pen has a lot of favorable comments, with few detractors. Examples: Parker 51, Waterman 52, Eversharp Skyline, Shaeffer Balance.. …

 

You will also learn some types of pens have more than the normal amount of complaints... brand XX seems to have a lot of complaints their nibs needing tuned, or Model XX filling system is very hard to repair, or a lot of model YY have reports of leaking or globbing ink on paper.

 

From your reading, you will learn which pens are likely to satisfy you, and which ones may turn you off from fountain pens. The more you read, the more dollars you will save by avoiding bad purchases.

It is much like an investment.

 

Look at the pictures here carefully. On vintage pens the details matter. Before you buy a pen, you should be generally familiar with what colors it was available in. What the nib for the pen looks like, and what are some of the common flaws for that model. Then look at the advertisement pictures of the pen you want. Does something look "different"? Keep in mind that sometimes different can be good. It can be a different and more valuable model than the seller is aware of. Or different can mean something broke on the pen, and another mis-matched part was substituted on the pen. Knowing the details is where you either come out way ahead, or fall into a money pit. Don't be afraid to go on amazon and pick up a couple of great "pen picture books". You might even find a brand you like, which you were previously unaware of. Educate yourself, and the rewards will be larger.

 

Just a serving suggestion.

 

Addertooth.

 

post script: look online for pen clubs within a couple hours drive of your home. find the monthly meeting date and go hang out with them. they will likely have pens with them you can look at and decide if they fit your hand well.

Edited by Addertooth
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And don't forget the Parker 45, not a very old pen, but certainly old and typically a bargain, especially the ones with gold nibs and even

 

May I add the Parker Slimfold - also a 14K nib, but since many were used as school pens, some of the nibs have been horribly abused.

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May I add the Parker Slimfold - also a 14K nib, but since many were used as school pens, some of the nibs have been horribly abused.

Yes, the slimfold is a bargain, a slim bargain (wonderfully honest name). And if one ventures into UK made Fountain pens, Conway Stewart's of that period are also,a bargain and often quite attractive. Going a bit earlier, the U.K. Made Vacumatics,are very underpriced, especially due to their wonderful nibs. And, if one wants a medium nibbed Parker 51, then UK made is the best option as far as high value for price.

Edited by Parker51
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Maybe the best idea would be for the OP to have a look around, find one they like the look of, and come back for thoughts on something more specific?

 

In general, MAAH, most well-known post-War pens will be every bit as useful and reliable as a modern pen, but they do have quirks. Oddly enough, on this board we are good at quirks. So narrow it down for us and we'll give you more info than any person could ever want on a specific pen or two!

 

Ralf

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All of the advice given pretty much mirrors the direction I was going in the first place so that reassures me. I was thinking my best way to start was to pick one or two brands, focus on and learn all that I could about them and then when ready purchase from a reputable dealer. I was browsing through eBay last night just to get an idea of what's out there. Like several have said... so many listing of got this from an estate sale or this has been sitting in grandpop's drawer for 50 years selling as-is. I'm definitely staying away from that.

 

After doing a little browsing 2 brands that popped out to me were Parker and Esterbrook. From those 2 brands the models that stuck out to me were the Parker 75 and Esterbrook J series. So I think I have a better starting point now. Aside from the forums here and the basic google search, can you point me in the direction of resources to learn more about these pens? I want to focus on Parker and Esterbrook for now but any other recommended reading on vintage pens in general would be much appreciated also.

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In addition to Peyton Street and Mainstreet, I would suggest MidnightPen on Etsy for both Esterbrook and Parker.

Baptiste knew how to make a short job long

For love of it. And yet not waste time either.

Robert Frost

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If you are inclined to take a look at Pelikan, Rick Propas at thepenguinpen has wonderful and reliable vintage. No affiliation but have bought from him - his work is impeccable and he stands behind what he sells.

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