Mont Blanc, "king Of The Hill?"

[Charles Skinner]

When I was new to the fountain pen hobby, --- back when "the world was young," ---- I believe that Mont Blanc was "King of the Hill." --- Today, I believe that Pilot and Pelikan have "unseated the King! --- Just my "uneducated thought." ----- What do you think? ---- Chas. Skinner

[Tom Kellie]

~ I'd never heard of Montblanc until I was past 40.

Someone gave me a Montblanc 149 M nib which I promptly stored uninked and unused for a quarter of a century.

As a kid, the King of the Hill for fountain pens in my world was Sheaffer, because that was what was sold in the local drugstore in blister packs.

As it happens, FPN member BillH knows exactly which drugstore I mean, as he grew up in the same area.

Today Pelikans and Pilots do sit on my writing desk, sharing space with Montblancs.

They're all cherished. Having a variety of pens and inks available for sketching and handwriting is such luxury, no matter the brand or model.

Tom K.

[tonybelding]

It depends on how you measure. If you are considering only large-scale, mass production pens, then I'd probably put Pilot right about at the top. Manufacturing quality is a Japanese obsession, and it shows.

 

If you are willing to broaden your horizons to more small-scale brands, then the king of the hill just might be Wahl-Eversharp. Those gold seal pens are stunners. And of course, there are also bespoke pen makers like Nakaya and Edison.

 

And of course, you can also go vintage. My personal favorites right now are 1940s vac-fill Sheaffer Triumphs.

Edited January 14, 2020 by tonybelding

[bemon]

I only have two Montblancs: a Classique and a 146. But I've had multiple Pilots over the years. Pilot is far superior in terms of reliability and value.

 

I had a Pilot Metro that was a little on the finicky side, but what do you expect for $30? And given it's reputation that's probably more because I dropped the cap which warped it. I suspect when capped it no longer sealed properly. But my Vanishing Points, my Custom 74, my Falcon and Custom 823 are all the stuff dreams are made of.

[zaddick]

What's the hill you are talking about? without defining that, we are looking at a meandering discussion of who likes what brand and why.

 

Are you talking brand recognition? Perceived pen quality? Resale value? Nib offerings? Perceived value for money? Most exotic limited edition pens? Usability out of the box? Ink capacity?

[Bo Bo Olson]

Krone is one of the most expensive pens, but has no big following here. They are as expensive on the whole as the 'regular' MB's.; perhaps more, but less expensive than the deluxe MB's.

 

My MB's work fine....3 from the '50's, one from '70-80 and one from 2006.

 

Chasing old cheap used affordable pens..."vintage"....never needed super narrow nibs, so have no need for a Pilot..

..the German vintage nib is 1/2 a width narrower than modern German nibs....(out side the 200). So a vintage Western EF was quite narrow enough for me. The nib was designed for flowing cursive writing, not tiny printed script like the Japanese nibs.

So if you print....yep, Japanese is best...........if you like a very very narrow nib, Japanese is best....Vintage is second best.

German Vintage has the better nibs and might well have the better balance....one of the reason's one buys vintage is all good pens had to have great balance or it didn't sell.....posted of course. Back in the day of out side the 149....pens were standard or 'big' medium-large pens.

The 146 went from medium-large with a semi-flex or maxi-semi-flex nib from 1950-70, to a large pen, with at first '70-80 a regular flex nib. Regular flex, semi&maxi are in a 3 X tine spread set....if you press semi&maxi wider you risk springing the nib.

I don't know when MB went over to a wider 'Springy' nib, good tine bend but only 2X tine spread; my Woolf has that.

 

From my reading....in I don't have a Pilot, the 'soft' Japanese nib is somewhat like a regular flex 200's nib, but a tad mushy.

Some say the special half moon ground factory nib is = to semi-flex; others say not..(Grinding a half moon in the nib will lessen the nib's lifetime.)

 

In I don't care for Large or big pens like a 149 or 1000, I think German vintage is king, because of the better nib, and great balance.............and if one hunts hard on German ebay, still affordable......

With the Cartel of German sellers offering the same pen they have on Buy Now Idiot, in the auction section for only E10 less than their normal gouging price....you do have to hunt hard.

If you want to over pay by $185 ...go for it.

A Pelikan 400nn could and can be had for E100-120............not $285 or Stateside prices.

[silverlifter]

MB is the most recognised brand. No other maker has prestige stores in airports all around the world to tempt the jetlagged executive into the impulse purchase of a status symbol on the corporate credit card.

 

If they are king of that hill, they are welcome to it.

[Driften]

To me "King of the Hill" denotes status. MB is still king of that hill and out lasted companies like Omas and Delta. In most of the world Pilot is not going to come to mind. In Japan I expect it's Namiki. Yes I know they are owned by Pilot but are the higher end pens and would be thought of in a different light then the parent. It could also be MB is king in Japan do to it being an import.

 

That doesn't mean MB is the best made or best in any category otherwise. Just like Rolex is the status king of watches even though there are better and more expensive brands out there.

[Uncial]

There was a period when fountain pens took a serious downturn throughout Europe. Schools were no longer insisting that they were used to learn handwriting and some banned fp's which required a bottle of ink to be brought to school rather than just carts. In that period the bic and the ballpoint of many kinds threatened to topple Montblanc from the throne it achieved for itself. The late 70's, the 80's and early 90's were something of a tough time for European fountain pen makers. Sheaffer, Parker and a few other brands hung on producing school pens but nothing very exciting. A good few fountain pen manufacturers met their demise in that period, and yet MB ploughed on with the introduction of various editions and a steady attempt at continuing production of quality pens which I suspect means that an awful lot of what we enjoy today is in some sense supported by MB's past determination to ride out the storm; whether it be Montegrappa, Aurora or the lowliest Lamy or Pilot (although I suspect the eastern market has always been bouyabt). In terms of today we have a brilliant array of choice all with such differing characteristics, so maybe the throne has multiple occupants, but perhaps the other occupants owe more to MB's grit than they know or care to admit

[Addertooth]

I view both Montblanc and BMW in the same vein. Both are very nice recognizable brands. Both (typically) have quality builds. Most people will not look down on you for having either of them.

Among executives, both have instant recognition. But I do not pretend that either is "the best". For the Record, I don't own a BMW, it was not agile enough.

[tonybelding]

To me "King of the Hill" denotes status. MB is still king of that hill and out lasted companies like Omas and Delta. In most of the world Pilot is not going to come to mind. In Japan I expect it's Namiki. Yes I know they are owned by Pilot but are the higher end pens and would be thought of in a different light then the parent. It could also be MB is king in Japan do to it being an import.

I've heard that a MB white star poking out of your pocket is part of the corporate management uniform in some circles, particularly in Europe. But on closer inspection many of those will turn out to be MB ballpoints!

 

I also recall one notorious incident from Japan in which a Montblanc failed in public.

 

→

 

During the inauguration of Japanese minister Kensaku Morita on April 6th, 2009 the fine writing instrument failed. The former Minister Akiko Domoto spontaneously offered her Pelikan Souverän M800 to her successor and the documents could be signed without further delays...

 

The striking thing to me was both of them using ultra-stodgy German pens. Japan has Pilot! Japan has Sailor! They produce ultra-stodgy pens that can stand up next to anyone's.

[Parker51]

"King of the Hill" to me is a pejorative term and so I would not apply it to Montblanc as I like their pens and find them to be very good writers, but unfortunately having some older models that are prone to having material failures.

The "King of the Hill" is also a mocking term in my lexicon, denoting someone, or so,etching which is rather a crude forceful bully fighting over nothing of particular importance, literally a hill no one cares about. Montblanc pens are not crude, or forceful and they are fighting for an imprtant thing, profit, through dominance and value perception. Are they the most expensive pens, no, are they the most overpriced pens, no, are they the best pens, no, but they are expensive, somewhat overpriced and are very good pens. What they are truely great at is marketing and leveraging their brand to increase profits.

In regard to comparing them to BMW, I would agree that they are similer to that brand, especially in marketing, but vintage Montblancs are all great pens while vintage BMWs are not all great cars, interesting yes, but great, no. And, contemporary BMWs (10 to 20 year old) don't hold or gain value as Montblancs sometimes do as they age. In that respect perhaps Montblancs are more like Porsche. Personally, I still haven't forgiven my father for totaling his Porsche a little over 50 years ago and really would like to have it today. But if he had had a BMW in his youth I would still want it, if it had somehow survived rusting away (I passed on buying one in 1977 due to the rust problem).

Edited January 15, 2020 by Parker51

[max dog]

Cross was always King of the Hill for me, always a little more upscale and prestigious than Parker and Sheaffer. Really stood for craftsmanship and quality. Was a time when Cross was more prestigious than Montblanc. 2008, with the big financial crisis, Cross manufacture left the US, as did Parker and Sheaffer, and it seemed like an end of an era. They still make good pens in my opinion but don't have the prestige they once did.

[Honeybadgers]

Kind of the boardroom, definitely.

 

But you buy them for the brand, not the value/performance per dollar.

[Honeybadgers]

Cross was always King of the Hill for me, always a little more upscale and prestigious than Parker and Sheaffer. Really stood for craftsmanship and quality. Was a time when Cross was more prestigious than Montblanc. 2008, with the big financial crisis, Cross manufacture left the US, as did Parker and Sheaffer, and it seemed like an end of an era. They still make good pens in my opinion but don't have the prestige they once did.

 

They still do in their higher tiers. The peerless 125 is one of the best pens money can buy from the perspective of "boardroom warrior"

 

And the townsend is a glorious thing too.

 

Parker only really makes one "special" pen, the duofold. The sonnet is great, but has a small dryout problem.

 

Sheaffer doesn't make anything good anymore.

 

Waterman has the carene.

 

The thing that really tarnishes the big four (cross, parker, sheaffer, waterman) is that they make some truly junk low end stuff. MB kept its nose clean there.

[jchch1950]

I agree with your questions.In a general point of view we can talk about our preference in the pen kingdom.but to say what brand is"king of the hill"is harder without a clear definitions;price,size, public recognition, etc. Maybe the question has to be which brand is for you the king of the hill.

What's the hill you are talking about? without defining that, we are looking at a meandering discussion of who likes what brand and why.

 

Are you talking brand recognition? Perceived pen quality? Resale value? Nib offerings? Perceived value for money? Most exotic limited edition pens? Usability out of the box? Ink capacity?

[tonybelding]

The thing that really tarnishes the big four (cross, parker, sheaffer, waterman) is that they make some truly junk low end stuff. MB kept its nose clean there.

From my perspective, getting out of the low-to-medium end of the market and becoming only a "luxury brand" is a sign of irreversible decline and capitulation. It's how a once great pen maker becomes a hollow shell. This is why I rate Pelikan and Pilot/Namiki higher than Montblanc, for example.

 

Pilot in particular is the giant among today's pen companies, because they do it all: from disposable G2 rollerballs on the peg board at Wal-Mart to $10,000+ Namiki Emperor Maki-e fountain pens. Somewhere in between they have the Vanishing Point and the E95S and the Custom 823 that appeal to die hard fountain pen geeks. And there are even some grail-worthy vintage Pilots to be sought after, like the Myu.

 

Compare with, say… Waterman. When I got into this hobby mumble mumble years ago, Waterman produced some fairly expensive but very lovely pens, like the L'Etalon, and they also made the cheap-and-homely but very robust Kultur and Philéas. These were school pens, entry level pens, but they were solid and reliable designs, which a school pen has to be. When you moved up to the L'Etalon, then the style, the materials and workmanship were exemplary, but when you looked closer… The feed and ink collector was exactly the same robust design as the Philéas, and the nib was a nicely polished 18K gold version of the Philéas's nib. Which was awesome, if you think about it a little. Look at Waterman today, though, and that low end is gone, and that synergy of design is gone, and the Waterman catalog is shriveled and much less interesting than it was.

 

Montblanc once produced more sensibly priced and practical fountain pens of modern design. For example, consider the Montblanc 220, which was a direct response to the Lamy 2000. Well, it's decades later now, and the Lamy 2000 is still going strong. (You should see how many photos of brand new 2000s popped up on r/fountainpens after Christmas!) The MB 220 is nowhere to be seen. MB couldn't hang in that part of the market.

[bemon]

 

They still do in their higher tiers. The peerless 125 is one of the best pens money can buy from the perspective of "boardroom warrior"

 

And the townsend is a glorious thing too.

 

Parker only really makes one "special" pen, the duofold. The sonnet is great, but has a small dryout problem.

 

Sheaffer doesn't make anything good anymore.

 

Waterman has the carene.

 

The thing that really tarnishes the big four (cross, parker, sheaffer, waterman) is that they make some truly junk low end stuff. MB kept its nose clean there.

Anyone know where the Peerless is made? I know it's got a Sailor nib. But where's it all put together? I test drove one at Scriptus in Toronto and liked it. I felt like the nib had been smoothed out vs an off the rack Sailor. But I only tried it for a few lines with a pretty saturated feed.

 

I've got a Townsend too and it writes well but I honestly only bought it because the two tone nib is gorgeous.

 

I think were Cross still excels is in it's ballpoint jotters. I've been carrying a Century Classic for years. I wish they were made on these shores still, but honestly it's never let me down and still gets compliments. I just keep it in a leather sleeve in my pocket so it doesn't tear the liner and it probably gets used once or twice a week for either a signature while I'm on the go or if I'm ticking items off a list as I work and I don't want to keep uncapping a fountain pen. I keep another one in the car which gets used even less often and it doesn't ever seem bothered by extreme hot or cold.

 

I've got two Sheaffer pens that I've got up for sale (that nobody seems to want). The Tarranis which is an all around "meh" pen, and the 100 which actually writes well. It's by no means a precision writer- it just globs ink from it's vaguely medium sized nib. When I say it writes well there's never any dry starting, never any dry out issues and it's a decent looking beginner pen. I'm trying to hawk it for $30 but so far no takers. I may just give it to my sister's boyfriend who likes to dance around the rim of the rabbit hole but hasn't fallen in yet.

[pajaro]

My 1980s MB 144s, 164s and 163s are still up there with the best. My 1980s Cross pens were excellent, but the MBs were better in my judgement. However, Parker 51, Parker 75 and Sheaffer Imperial are still even better performers. In fact, Sheaffer translucent barrel school cartridge pens and even Esterbrook pens deliver a level of service that is nearly comparable at much less cost.

[loganrah]

While I don't have any MB's (still waiting on my first to arrive) so I can't comment on their quality directly, I think we should watch out for an anti-prestige/popularity bias in this kind of discussion.

 

As several people have pointed out, Montblanc is a bit like Rolex or Porche or other high end but very recognisable and popular brands. Brands that sell themselves as prestige brands. One thing that comes along with that is that some people will look down on those brands as being too common or obvious: "If you buy a Rolex you don't know anything about watches", "If you buy a Montblanc you don't know anything about pens", "If you buy a Mac you don't know anything about computers", etc.

 

Pilot, on the other hand, doesn't suffer from this bias partly because they produce pens at all points in the price spectrum. Running right through from the cheapest v-pen ($2) to the custom urushi ($1000) or their maki-e works (even more). You can't look down on someone who buys a $1000 pilot pen as just buying into prestige, because pilot doesn't have prestige or sell itself as a prestige brand.

 

I dare say that in the Englihs speaking world it also helps that Pilot (and Sailor and Platinum etc.) are non-European brands. It's cooler to have an exotic urushi coated pen, doesn't urushi sound so expensive and rare?, than a precious resin Montblanc, precious resin is just plastic right? But if you were familiar with urushi coating as a common way of producing higher end items then a pen made from precious resin from an romantic European brand would probably sound the way an urushi coated pen from Pilot sounds to those in the Western world.

Of course, it may be that Montblanc's pens really are of worse quality, or worse quality control, than similarly priced pens from other brands. But to determine that you really need to be able to put aside any other biases you have and use objective measures of comparison.

Edited January 16, 2020 by loganrah