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Nib Grinding: Medium To Fine - Questions

nib grinding

10 replies to this topic

#1 timotheap

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Posted 09 January 2020 - 19:28

I have two questions about grinding a medium nib to a fine (or at least finer). 

 

I've managed to bring a non-flex Noodler's nib that was very thick to a finer line, and though still very smooth it feels like I'm writing with a big round ball, but I can't understand why it feels that way (so I would know what to alter)... any ideas?

 

I've also started grinding a Jinhao nib. Is narrowing the sides of the tip the only thing I should do? It already writes a bit thinner than before (and I've lost the smoothness because I slipped off the grindstone...) but I want it finer still. 

 

Simply put : what else should I pay attention to besides "shaving" off the sides of the tip and maybe softening the transition between sides and underside of the nib? 

 

Nothing to do with the topic but by the way, Jinhao nibs (x450) are too big/loose for Conklin Duraflex (oh that Omniflex...) feeds. 

 

Thanks for the help - what I found searching this forum was too vague for me to understand...

 

Timo



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#2 Karmachanic

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Posted 09 January 2020 - 20:03

I have two questions about grinding a medium nib to a fine (or at least finer). 

 

 it feels like I'm writing with a big round ball, but I can't understand why it feels that way (so I would know what to alter)... any ideas?

 

 

Because you are writing with a big round(ish - you narrowed the sides) ball. F nib has less tipping. Look carefully at an F nib and check the geometry.

 

Is the down stroke now narrower than the cross stroke?

 

You've adjusted east/west tipping, but the north/south is still that of a wider nib, and that axis is also putting ink on the page. If you want a normal F you'll need to try and maintain the shape, while reducing the tipping on the underside.

 

I'm far from being expert in this area, but I have ground several CI/Stuibs myself, which means flattening the tipping. A simpler operation.

 

Good luck!


"Simplicate and add Lightness."


#3 timotheap

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Posted 09 January 2020 - 20:09

I laughed reading your reply - indeed my question was a bit ridiculous. You confirmed my fear: I have to work on the underside of the tipping and that sounds like a very small area. To answer your question, no, the strokes are the same horizontally or vertically. I've had another go at grinding the sides (east/west) and it has magically reduced the big ball feeling. 

 

Thanks for you input !



#4 Bo Bo Olson

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Posted 09 January 2020 - 20:58

Why not buy a Japanese Metropolitan???...F=EF in Western...EF=XXF in western.

 

It took me a couple years, but I do now like M (western) in it is smoother....works on classic rough paper.....and is a good nib for two toned shading ink.

 

 

You could simply stub your round nib....


German vintage '50-70 semi-flex stubs and those in oblique give the real thing in On Demand line variation. Modern Oblique is a waste of money for a shadow of line variation. Being too lazy to Hunt for affordable vintage oblique pens, lets you 'hunt' for line variation instead of having it.

www.nibs.com/blog/nibster-writes/nibs-germany & https://www.peter-bo...cts/nib-systems,

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 


#5 timotheap

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Posted 09 January 2020 - 21:06

Well I got the Noodler's non flex as a spare nib with my Ahab, and then I got Jinhaos... And  I was hoping to have a back-up if I destroyed or disliked the Conklin Omniflex. Stubs have no appeal for me, I just wanted to make nibs I find too wide a bit thinner. 

 

 

Also I usually choose medium nibs because I find them wetter/smoother, but sometimes Medium is awfully thick. And it seems like a useful skill to me !



#6 timotheap

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Posted 09 January 2020 - 23:28

20200110_002504.jpg

 

Here's my attempt on the Jinhao nib - I'll try to get some micromesh or something like that tomorrow... 

 

 



#7 Bo Bo Olson

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Posted 10 January 2020 - 00:12

I bought old vintage back when they were cheaper pens.... I started at M and went wide, and by the time I went narrow. I found the '50's F narrow enough (Half a width narrower than modern Pelikan or MB..(same width as modern 200's nibs))....did get a couple EF's. Semi-flex.

 

I liking wide nibs once more than now, never had a need to make a narrow nib ;) . I did eventually bought some narrower nibs........very good nibbed pens.

One of the advantages of semi-vintage and vintage pens is the better nib than modern .... on the whole.

 

So by me, I have no reason to grind a nib narrower..............but when one puts tolerance, that a Skinny M can exactly match a Fat F of the same company and era, and other companies made wider or narrower standards of with.....none are going to be exact.....1/2 widths being 'normal'.

They made nibs to their own company standards back in the Day of One Man, One Pen.....Parker users were trained to want a fat M, Shaffer was trained to think a Fat F was M. That prevented scarce customers who bought a new pen every 7-10 year from making horrible mistake and buying another brand.............which could have happened if Parker made Narrow Shaffer nibs.

 

A wet or dry ink can make up to a 1/2 a width in your writing. A slick paper can make you nib write 1/2 a width narrower.

On cheap 80g copy paper your nib will write wider.

So insisting on only an exact width of your nib....will deny you joys of different papers and inks.

If you have some good paper.....go to Richard Binder's site, he has a print out chart of width that you can measure your nib width too.

 

As I said, I don't think grinding a nib narrower is a skill one must have, but many do. So have fun....Pelikan 4001 is a dry ink...in you don't list a flag, I can't tell you to buy the Blue Black.....if you are in the States, you could smuggle it in....It is a very nice dry ink....one of the very driest.

You will have to stay away from many Noodlers inks. Once before Noodlers inks came on the market Waterman was considered a wet ink. Now some Noodler users consider Watermann a dry ink. :headsmack: :doh:.

 

Oh a narrow nib is no good for two toned shading inks.....which needs 90g or better paper as is.

 

What ever you do.....don't use the feather champ....Ink Jet Paper.


German vintage '50-70 semi-flex stubs and those in oblique give the real thing in On Demand line variation. Modern Oblique is a waste of money for a shadow of line variation. Being too lazy to Hunt for affordable vintage oblique pens, lets you 'hunt' for line variation instead of having it.

www.nibs.com/blog/nibster-writes/nibs-germany & https://www.peter-bo...cts/nib-systems,

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 


#8 timotheap

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Posted 10 January 2020 - 00:22

I bought old vintage back when they were cheaper pens.... I started at M and went wide, and by the time I went narrow. I found the '50's F narrow enough (Half a width narrower than modern Pelikan or MB..(same width as modern 200's nibs))....did get a couple EF's. Semi-flex.

 

I liking wide nibs once more than now, never had a need to make a narrow nib ;) . I did eventually bought some narrower nibs........very good nibbed pens.

One of the advantages of semi-vintage and vintage pens is the better nib than modern .... on the whole.

 

So by me, I have no reason to grind a nib narrower..............but when one puts tolerance, that a Skinny M can exactly match a Fat F of the same company and era, and other companies made wider or narrower standards of with.....none are going to be exact.....1/2 widths being 'normal'.

They made nibs to their own company standards back in the Day of One Man, One Pen.....Parker users were trained to want a fat M, Shaffer was trained to think a Fat F was M. That prevented scarce customers who bought a new pen every 7-10 year from making horrible mistake and buying another brand.............which could have happened if Parker made Narrow Shaffer nibs.

 

A wet or dry ink can make up to a 1/2 a width in your writing. A slick paper can make you nib write 1/2 a width narrower.

On cheap 80g copy paper your nib will write wider.

So insisting on only an exact width of your nib....will deny you joys of different papers and inks.

If you have some good paper.....go to Richard Binder's site, he has a print out chart of width that you can measure your nib width too.

 

As I said, I don't think grinding a nib narrower is a skill one must have, but many do. So have fun....Pelikan 4001 is a dry ink...in you don't list a flag, I can't tell you to buy the Blue Black.....if you are in the States, you could smuggle it in....It is a very nice dry ink....one of the very driest.

You will have to stay away from many Noodlers inks. Once before Noodlers inks came on the market Waterman was considered a wet ink. Now some Noodler users consider Watermann a dry ink. :headsmack: :doh:.

 

Oh a narrow nib is no good for two toned shading inks.....which needs 90g or better paper as is.

 

What ever you do.....don't use the feather champ....Ink Jet Paper.

 

Thanks Bo Bo Olson ! Indeed I try the nib on various papers and I don't plan on respecting a specific width - it's just that the nibs I have are too broad for me to ever use. A few months ago I found that my Kaweco M was too thin on Clairefontaine (a paper I actually hate but the most available/affordable where I live) and perfect for my thin paper diary. 

 

So I'll keep trying to have a go at those cheap nibs. As for what one finds useful or not, well... a couple of years ago I decided knowing how to pick a lock was a useful skill simply because I wanted to know how to do it! 

 

I'm in Belgium so Pelikan ink is easy to get - thanks for reminding me to try drier inks !!! definitely something to consider for some pens. 



#9 japinder_888

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Posted 19 January 2020 - 08:44

Hi

 

I want to grind some of my Jinhao nibs to stubs or CI. I have read meany articles on grinding on the internet but couldn't find the exact tools to grind, such as grinding stone size, sandpaper size?

 

Could you please provide the details of material used for grinding, such as grit size etc.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Because you are writing with a big round(ish - you narrowed the sides) ball. F nib has less tipping. Look carefully at an F nib and check the geometry.

 

Is the down stroke now narrower than the cross stroke?

 

You've adjusted east/west tipping, but the north/south is still that of a wider nib, and that axis is also putting ink on the page. If you want a normal F you'll need to try and maintain the shape, while reducing the tipping on the underside.

 

I'm far from being expert in this area, but I have ground several CI/Stuibs myself, which means flattening the tipping. A simpler operation.

 

Good luck!



#10 timotheap

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Posted 19 January 2020 - 11:49

No pro here, but I bought a grinding stone from a local hardware store for less than 4 euro, and the finest sanding paper I could find was 2500. I smoothed the nib as best as I could with a nail file because I couldn't find Micromesh where I am. 

I'm happy with the result but I'll probably get brass sheets and Micromesh the next time I order something. 



#11 Karmachanic

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Posted 19 January 2020 - 13:38

Hi

 

I want to grind some of my Jinhao nibs to stubs or CI. I have read meany articles on grinding on the internet but couldn't find the exact tools to grind, such as grinding stone size, sandpaper size?

 

Could you please provide the details of material used for grinding, such as grit size etc.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

 

I use micromesh 4000, 6000, 8000 and 12000. Some also use mylar. I suggest digging around in the Nib and Repair sections.

 

I purchased a bunch of Jinhao nibs to learn with.

http://www.marcuslin...ludwig-tan.html

http://www.richardsp...nibs/basics.htm

http://www.fountainp...tools-question/


"Simplicate and add Lightness."




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