Dites Moi S'il Vous Plait... What's The Attraction With Kaweco?

[tamiya]

I just don't get Kaweco.

 

The plastic Sport, Classic etc... they feel cheap & plasticky. Their nibs don't look anything special and don't write anything special either, feels run-o-the-mill to be honest... downunder they sell for A$40-50 nearly as much as a Lamy Safari $60; but that Safari feels a lot more "premium" for that price.

 

The metal Kawecos... Al, Brass etc are crazy money A$150ish. Ok they feel solid but don't write any better than the plastic cousins. Weighting feels odd - too forward unposted, too backheavy posted.

 

And then there's their ink... tiny little 30ml bottle, sells for A$20-25! Can't say their colours are anything spectacular, performance is unremarkable. Bottle reminds me of Pelikan 4001 & Herlitz... which are a third or half that price. Oh & I don't even get a nice printed cardboard box just the silly flying buttress paper tab that tapes lid to bottle shoulders... and looks messy once ripped.

 

But seeing Kaweco is in many retail shops, somebody must be buying them!

Pray tell who, and what you find attractive?

[JulieParadise]

I buy them!

 

Not for myself anymore as I have somewhat climbed up the ladder of more expensive pens but I do buy them in multiples as (birthday) gifts for classmates of my children or whenever I think it is suitable. My children (11 and 10 years old now) use them at school for 3 or 4 years now and since they changed school last/this year this "round" of birthday presents are fountain pens. There was another "round" at their old school, before they left, so all in all I think I supplied around 24 children with Kaweco Sport pens already. I also give a jar of 100 royal blue cartridges (costs around 4 Euro each) to the classroom of each of my children so there is never a shortage of ink and everybody can write happily and endlessly

 

These Kaweco pens make for a great gift and since I have spare nibs and like to tinker with pens I can offer servicing the pens whenever something is wrong, which only happened once -- a girl managed to get a spare cartridge stuck in the barrel where no spare cartridge fits ... Although I have to admit that I usually flush the nib & feed before giving them away.

 

I think these cheap plastic Sports still are enough of a novelty to stick out regarding the design especially compared to normal fountain pens sold for children. And since there are so many colours available and you can also mix & match these are just fun pens.

[dogpoet]

I think Julie has it. The only thing she didn't mention is that the Kawecos are extremely reliable, and while the bottled ink may be overpriced, the plastic sports gain on the slightly more expensive Lamy safari by using standard international cartridges rather than expensive proprietary ones.

[Christopher Godfrey]

...and then there are the vintage Kawecos...I have one (a Dia 87 model) which has a superb, long-tined, fine nib which <easily> flexes to produce line variation up to about 2mm! I love this pen as much as any of my Pelikans.

 

(@OP: "Dîtes-moi" requires a hyphen; but I'm sure you knew that!)

[WLSpec]

They also make some great pocket pens; both the liliput and the sport are, as dogpoet said, reliable and unlikely to leak, and function well as fountain pens. I had a liliput that I quite liked, though I seem to have misplaced it a while ago..

[inkstainedruth]

I like the look of the Fireblue Liliput -- but it's so much more expensive than the others in that line. And I've heard that the converters for Kaweco are not terribly good -- which leaves one with being stuck with cartridges only, and at this point that's a dealbreaker for me.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[tamiya]

...and then there are the vintage Kawecos...I have one (a Dia 87 model) which has a superb, long-tined, fine nib which <easily> flexes to produce line variation up to about 2mm! I love this pen as much as any of my Pelikans.

 

(@OP: "Dîtes-moi" requires a hyphen; but I'm sure you knew that!)

I blame AutoCorrect!

Way past midnight insomnia!

Too tired to doublecheck with Google-itis!

 

Curiously now that you mention it don't see much German vintage pens downunder, nothing 60s & earlier... no Lamy, no Kaweco... anything that I can recognise at a glance anyways. It's mainly Esterbrooks, Parker, Sheaffer, Cross sighted at our penshow vintage dealers. Guess being a Commonwealth country has benefits for importing from Old Blighty especially whilst they're on the postwar Export Drive in the 50s. No old Pilots either, although there's plenty of 50yo Toyota Landcruisers and Datsuns.

[senzen]

The Sport seems like a decent proposition at first: very small / portable, decent design, not that expensive, from an actual fountain pen brand... At least that's probably what friends who graciously gave me one probably thought, or what the salesperson probably thought they would like. Personally the awful converter kills it, it's my least used pen, by far, but I only use bottled inks and don't want to mess with syringes. The nib is nice and smooth, but made of what seems like a lower grade material, so they are easily sprung; the gold plating is long gone. The section diameter barely works for my hands, and I have to use it posted, which I don't do with any other pens; the fact that it's the black checkered model with gold details doesn't help.

 

Some of the vintage models and the Dia 2 look interesting, but my bad experience with the Sport has precluded me from even looking them up.

 

C'est tout!

[tamiya]

They also make some great pocket pens; both the liliput and the sport are, as dogpoet said, reliable and unlikely to leak, and function well as fountain pens. I had a liliput that I quite liked, though I seem to have misplaced it a while ago..

I like the look of the Fireblue Liliput -- but it's so much more expensive than the others in that line. And I've heard that the converters for Kaweco are not terribly good -- which leaves one with being stuck with cartridges only, and at this point that's a dealbreaker for me.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

Fireblue is RRP A$249 here!! 8( At that pricepoint i'd rather buy a Pilot VP

 

Convertor an extra $10-15ish. Clips (for Sport) $10.

 

The cheaper models of Liliput haven't been stocked at any of my usual haunts in recent memory either, not until Milligram/Telegram took over distributorship from H&M Gutberlet in recent years. They'll be on par with the metal Sports I'd guess... $130-160ish.

 

Pocket pens are cute, huge fan of the Pilot Birdie - wish they'd bring that back! Have had about half a dozen back from my schooldays, 1 in every colour; all have been gradually stolen except 1 that I never left out of my sight.

[tamiya]

Ahh ok... this answers a few questions... I had overlooked that the modern/current Kaweco is actually a regeneration of the 1990s after the original Kaweco shutdown in 1980!

 

https://medium.com/@frankunderwater/saving-a-pen-brand-a-case-study-of-the-kaweco-e419b1a1a61f

 

Gutberlet acquired the rights to name then started recreating the products... and yep the Sport is intended to be cheap colourful & cheerful

 

That also explains the "hollow" feeling I get... same as when I see a modern Indian or Triumph motorcycle. Revival of old name + modern recreation = lifestyle accessory

[dapprman]

Plus side the sports are cheap, lots of colours and options, down side questionable QC over nibs, especially in recent times, but maybe recently fixed by a possible switch from Bock to Jowo. Mine wrote fine when eye dropper filled, but is dry to the point of useless with a cartridge using the same ink.

[tamiya]

I buy them!

 

Not for myself anymore as I have somewhat climbed up the ladder of more expensive pens but I do buy them in multiples as (birthday) gifts for classmates of my children or whenever I think it is suitable. My children (11 and 10 years old now) use them at school for 3 or 4 years now and since they changed school last/this year this "round" of birthday presents are fountain pens. There was another "round" at their old school, before they left, so all in all I think I supplied around 24 children with Kaweco Sport pens already. I also give a jar of 100 royal blue cartridges (costs around 4 Euro each) to the classroom of each of my children so there is never a shortage of ink and everybody can write happily and endlessly

 

I think Julie has it. The only thing she didn't mention is that the Kawecos are extremely reliable, and while the bottled ink may be overpriced, the plastic sports gain on the slightly more expensive Lamy safari by using standard international cartridges rather than expensive proprietary ones.

That is true, S.I.C can be handy especially if you need to borrow one off your classmate midday. Communal jar full on teacher's desk is a great idea! Otoh Lamy & Pilot cartridges have bigger capacity & slightly easier to refill due to larger mouths

 

 

Julie is in Germany isn't she, where they mandate all the school kids write with FPs?

 

Totally different downunder in Australia... our primary school "supplies all stationery" (which they charge a flat fee for, annually) under guise of "so no child goes without". Stationery sets allocated to each child stays at school = no hassles about forgetting them at home each morning. Otoh the kids don't learn to "look after their things" nor have I seen them bring home what's remaining at the end of every year... I'm guessing it all just gets THROWN OUT, what a waste... (irony bring they spend all school year lecturing them on eco/green anti-waste blah blah blah. Then only to fillup huge dumpsters at year end.)

 

As for writing... they barely get taught proper words ("just write whatever you think it should be written as, let the reader try decipher/guess what you meant to write"...!!) let alone "how" to write. Yeah we parents unashamedly interfere & do our own remedial instructing afterhours.

 

 

Eldest has finally reached high school this year and for the first time it's BYO pencil case.

 

Now every few weeks we have to remind her that she doesn't really necessarily have to bring 50+ pens to school everyday... but she says each pen is a different tip/nib and every one is filled with a different ink...

 

[JulieParadise]

Excuse me, I kind of forget to mention that I am writing this from a German perspective, where you can get the regular plastic Sport models for ca. 20 Euros. The Liliput costs between 40 and 60 Euros, depending on the finish, metal sports cost ca. 60 to 80 Euros. A Fireblue is more expensive at around 120 Euro etc.

 

The plastic Sports are not really competing with "normal/usual" fountain pens taregting the school market, which Lamy with the Safari, Vista and AL Stars clearly do; these cost around 15-25 Euro, the higher already being a mark-up, 20 Euro would be normal price at a department store. Fountain pens for younger children from first or second grade onwards (6 years and older) cost around 10 Euros to 20 Euros. The Pelikano, Pelikan Twist, Herlitz (My Pen), Online pens fall into that category as well. In most schools fountain pen use for at least the first few grades is often mandatory.

 

So the Sport here is available but still not known too widely, so I'd still regard them as novelty, also speaking from the reaction I had seen multiple times when giving them away, to adults as much as to children (also counting the reaction of their parents).

 

About the vintage Kaweco, well, there is not much to say. These mostly are fabulous! I own a Dia 785 piston filler with a flexy steel nib, two V16 piston fillers with hooded and perfectly stubbish B nibs, also a modern Liliput AL Black and a Sport Luxe, a beautiful special edition in black you can see beautiful pics of at Dries' Pencilcase Blog: https://www.pencilcaseblog.com/2014/01/kaweco-sport-luxe-fountain-pen.html I also had two Art Sports a while ago that were stolen with my bag three years ago.

 

So, not all Kawecos are the same, as was said above in the other posts.

 

Edited to add: Yup, writing from Germany, as you mentioned.

Also adding: Yup, too, parents get a list here what kinds of things the children need but everyone has their own stuff and therefore has to look for it. (Mandatory) Books for school, at least in Berlin, are free (again), as is a free meal until sixth grade and also, since August, the use of public transportation for school children.

Edited December 29, 2019 by JulieParadise

[tamiya]

Oh I omitted...

 

School pressies... yeah over the years I've been slipping in various Baoer, JinHao etc China FPs into classmate presents.

 

Wouldn't be stretching to a Kaweco Sport at A$50 though... going rate within school community is around $10-20max for a birthday party gift!!

 

Although I'll admit I recently gifted a Pilot Kakuno (they sell for about $25-30 here) for an 11th birthday he's a real nice kid, well-mannered & looks responsible enough to handle FP ownership.

[JulieParadise]

We only know nice & well-mannered school children here, so, when normally 10 Euro is the average for a gift, 20 Euros would not be too far fetched. Although, and that is why I added the price explanation, I see that the Kaweco Sport might not be as competitive as it is around here.

 

But this kind of consideration might also apply to other things, inks for example: Rohrer & Klingner and Pelikan 4001 inks cost around 5 Euros here, whereas Iroshizuku go for ca. 25-30 Euro -- if you can get them in a store at all (mostly not, only in more specialized store like Moranga in Berlin). Depending on how far away from the manufacturer you are all products become more expensive, of course. For you Aussies, unfortunately, almost everything is half a world away which has to be factored into the evaluation.

[tamiya]

Depending on how far away from the manufacturer you are all products become more expensive, of course. For you Aussies, unfortunately, almost everything is half a world away which has to be factored into the evaluation.

Thanks Julie! Yes you are right... oz prices are high & there's some real odd disparities - not just distance.

 

Iroshizuku first appeared locally for ~A$45... but I discovered some of my Japanese hobby shops selling for $25 briefly back then. These days they're down to A$35 here; overseas they're about $30-35 so I don't need to hoard anymore I can just buy when I run out.

 

For some unknown reason, LPS here sell 4001 in tiny 30ml bottles for A$10-13!! Yeah same price as a 60ml Quink or Watermans... crazy. But anywhere else 4001 is a cheap ink, used to be $5/62ml in Singapore - now it's $6. Fantastic value, so yes I've hoarded a decent stash bringing back a few 4001 bottles every trip. (Wish I bought more Brilliant Green; new Dark Green is boring.)

 

And I'm a Herlitz addict think I might own the biggest Herlitz stash in Australia

Their pens are mostly plasticky cheap but that's ok, they ARE cheap and the nibs write fantastic. I buy the little Herlitz jars of 50 Konigsblau cartridges the ink is good but those plastic cartridges are even better, they live longer (refilled) that any other cheap cartridge I've tried. Not super keen on the latest/current My.Pen though... hate how the pen can only enter the cap in 1 orientation, and that orientation is nib upsidedown to the clip - it's unnatural!!

 

Btw Herlitz is owned by Pelikan and Pelikan has been owned by Malaysians for some time, so I'm told. They've even gotten listed on the Malaysian stockexchange bourse. No relations but at least I get a (slightly) warm fuzzy nationalistic feeling when buying Pelikan/Herlitz.

 

Sadly no such feeling when buying Kaweco (I tried, seriously!), hence this thread.

[penwash]

You haven't seen the real Kaweco quality until you've tried to write with their vintage ones.

 

This is my V16, one of the many vintage version of Kaweco Sport. A brilliantly designed pocket-size true piston filler with amazing gold nib.

 

 

As for the modern one, Kaweco Dia 2 surprisingly resembles its ancestor, it's a very nice pen in the hand and the nib is good. Too bad it has became a boring C/C filler, instead of retaining the original piston filler.

[tamiya]

You haven't seen the real Kaweco quality until you've tried to write with their vintage ones.

 

This is my V16, one of the many vintage version of Kaweco Sport. A brilliantly designed pocket-size true piston filler with amazing gold nib.

 

 

Niiiiice! No doubts there, the originals were built to premium quality & priced accordingly.

 

Unlike the modern lookalikes... they're priced high, but I just don't feel the "value" in my paws. (Irony being I'll go annoy the Montblanc boutique staff by leaving fingerprints on everything, but hey most of their pens feel like they're "worth" whatever crazy price they ask. Go figure.)

 

Haven't quite worked out how Kaweco got into Australia before Telegram... Im guessing probably snuck in thru Diplomat's channels. All I know is I've been seeing Kaweco cartridges (lying unsold) in many places for like 10+ years, havent seen much of their pens until recently. Don't see much of the vintage Kaweco here nor have I met any local repairer that says he specialises in Kaweco & owns a stash of old parts.

 

But yes one day I'll chance across a vintage gold nib piston filler that sings to me, and when I reach into my pocket magically there's enough cash in there to cover negotiations... I always respect that as The Sign it's meant to be

[OMASsimo]

Kaweco once has been one of the BIG pen manufacturers of Germany, comparable to Pelikan and Montblanc. I've been collecting vintage ones for many years and I absolutely love their nibs and build quality. The Sport was a revolutionary design of the 1930s and was made for decades till the 1970s. They used to be piston fillers with awesome 14k gold nibs. So I was very surprised to see new Kaweco Sports popping up everywhere, which became quite popular among my students.

 

I don't have a new one because I don't really appreciate modern steel nibs. But I have vintage Sports and many other models and can testify that these are outstanding writers and well worth their money. Vintage Sports tend to be a bit more expensive because of the popularity of the modern ones. But old Dias or the 85 are often cheap steals and incredible value (at least in Europe). And I don't see what spare parts you might need, these pens are very easy to repair and maintain. A bit of cork is all I needed so far.

[tamiya]

And I don't see what spare parts you might need, these pens are very easy to repair and maintain. A bit of cork is all I needed so far.

Good to know, thank you.

 

Haha I don't want to start another collection, I just want One I'd best find it in fine working condition otherwise if I started getting into fixing, I'll end up buying multiples either for parts or to find a better example.

 

If there's a local fella who's known for servicing a particular marque, he's often the best source for both advice & working vintage pens... rather than buying blindly from private amateur sellers.

 

 

 

Just had a thought... Australia had a huge influx of immigrants post war... mainly Italians, Greeks, Jews... not so many blonde hair blue eyed Germans afaik. Today I can just walk down the street and buy nice babka and baklouva to go with my espresso but much harder to find authentic bratwurst.