Jump to content

The Fountain Pen Network uses (functional) cookies. Read the FPN Privacy Policy for more info.  To remove this message, please click here to accept the use of cookies


Registration on the Fountain Pen Network

Dearest Visitor of the little Fountain Pen Nut house on the digital prairie,

Due to the enormous influx of spammers, it is no longer possible to handle valditions in the traditional way. For registrations we therefore kindly and respectfully request you to send an email with your request to our especially created email address. This email address is register at fountainpennetwork dot com. Please include your desired user name, and after validation we will send you a return email containing the validation key, normally wiithin a week.

Thank you very much in advance!
The FPN Admin Team






Photo

Damaging Inks

ink damage stain

  • Please log in to reply
70 replies to this topic

#21 Parkette

Parkette

    Dogged

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 549 posts
  • Location:Hellunback

Posted 15 December 2019 - 16:26

 

If it's truly not removable--sure.  I've not heard of non-removable staining yet--other than from porous materials on pens and things like sinks, wooden desks, etc. and maybe one or two known corrosive inks.  Particularly Diamine is a pretty safe ink brand, with caveats for more care being their IG ink and shimmer inks.  Which specific Diamine ink caused the blue staining in that TWSBI?

 

The point I am making is that a well behaved ink should not need remedial action to the pen  to put it back into its original state before it was filled with ink.



Sponsored Content

#22 Intensity

Intensity

    Antique

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,146 posts
  • Location:U.S.A.
  • Flag:

Posted 15 December 2019 - 16:30

 

The point I am making is that a well behaved ink should not need remedial action to the pen  to put it back into its original state before it was filled with ink.

 

Can you provide the information about the ink?  Just plain stating a brand and showing blue color and claiming damage does nothing constructive.


“I admit it, I'm surprised that fountain pens are a hobby. ... it's a bit like stumbling into a fork convention - when you've used a fork all your life.” 


#23 Parkette

Parkette

    Dogged

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 549 posts
  • Location:Hellunback

Posted 15 December 2019 - 16:31

 

It's not a contradiction.  It's like saying that your tea cup stained with tea is now permanently damaged.  The tea cup was made for tea.  Periodically it can get stained.  You clean the stains with appropriate cleaning methods.  Cup continues working for you and doing its job.  You could argue that you don't want stains in your tea cups and that they should always rinse clean only with tap water....  But would you?

 

This is so off topic. If a tea cup becomes stained and the stain wont become clean with normal washing then it is not in its original state and meets the Oxford English Dictory definition of Damage.

 

The cup may work in that it hold tea but its surface is damaged.

 

In the case of the Twsbi, it still works but it is no longer transparent



#24 Parkette

Parkette

    Dogged

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 549 posts
  • Location:Hellunback

Posted 15 December 2019 - 16:33

 

Can you provide the information about the ink?  Just plain stating a brand and showing blue color and claiming damage does nothing constructive.

 

 

No, it was some time ago, why do you want to know?

 

The pen has since been back to twsbi who blamed Diamine and replaced the barrel.



#25 Bill P

Bill P

    FOUNTAIN PEN ENTHUSIAST

  • Premium - Ruby

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 533 posts
  • Location:New Hampshire
  • Flag:

Posted 15 December 2019 - 16:33

This debate will never be solved...and there will be no agreements..that is pretty clear

 

Repair damage vs cleaning and maintenance

 

I guess if you don't like the qualities of a particular ink, don't use it...If the ink is still on the market, it's qualities must be enjoyed by others.


Edited by Bill P, 15 December 2019 - 16:36.


#26 Newton Pens

Newton Pens

    Pen Making Nib Grinding Nut

  • Premium - Diamond

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 13,020 posts
  • Location:Hot Springs, Ar

Posted 15 December 2019 - 16:41

iron gall nib damage-

 

https://kencrooker.com/igink-redux/



We Give Away Scholarships! - Support High School Students Going to College

 


#27 aurore

aurore

    Vintage

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 537 posts

Posted 15 December 2019 - 16:48

This debate will never be solved...and there will be no agreements..that is pretty clear
 
Repair damage vs cleaning and maintenance
 
I guess if you don't like the qualities of a particular ink, don't use it...If the ink is still on the market, it's qualities must be enjoyed by others.


Very true. Personally I am just not much confident "not as new" should always equal to "damaged".

#28 Intensity

Intensity

    Antique

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,146 posts
  • Location:U.S.A.
  • Flag:

Posted 15 December 2019 - 16:51

 

 

No, it was some time ago, why do you want to know?

 

The pen has since been back to twsbi who blamed Diamine and replaced the barrel.

 

Mainly because we could have provided you with tips on how to clean your pen, and this information could have been useful to others.  It's always relevant to be specific when making statements of ink damage, including conditions in which the ink was used, other inks used (chemical interaction between inks when there's no thorough cleaning between swapping different inks can also potentially lead to problems).  And just because TWSBI replaced a barrel and blamed Diamine, doesn't mean it was permanent damage--it was quite possibly easier to just send you a new replacement and be done with the issue (and effectively ask you not to use that ink again so they don't have to send you another replacement part). 


“I admit it, I'm surprised that fountain pens are a hobby. ... it's a bit like stumbling into a fork convention - when you've used a fork all your life.” 


#29 Bill P

Bill P

    FOUNTAIN PEN ENTHUSIAST

  • Premium - Ruby

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 533 posts
  • Location:New Hampshire
  • Flag:

Posted 15 December 2019 - 17:05

Very true. Personally I am just not much confident "not as new" should always equal to "damaged".

 

 

+1



#30 TSherbs

TSherbs

    Donor Pen

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,012 posts

Posted 15 December 2019 - 19:26

 
 
You are entitled to your opinion too, it just happens to be different to mine and the OED which defines damage as
 
'physical harm that impairs the value, usefulness, or normal function of something'
 
.....
 
Lets not get silly about this.


Quoting the OED on this topic is the "silly" move. You end up basing your point off a definition that would include as "damage" simply the depreciation that comes from opening a package.

Very few inks will ever damage a pen other than some possible discoloration, which can happen to pen materials both transparent and opaque. We only note the discoloration, however, with transparent pieces, since in the others it's not visible on the outside of the pen. If one does not want to risk visible discoloration with a fountain pen, then I recommend not purchasing demonstrators. That said, I own a few myself, and none has received any discoloration, even with the notorious BSB.

#31 TSherbs

TSherbs

    Donor Pen

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,012 posts

Posted 15 December 2019 - 19:35

 
The point I am making is that a well behaved ink should not need remedial action to the pen  to put it back into its original state before it was filled with ink.

Is rinsing with water a "remedial action" that indicates that "damage" has been done? How about if soap is added?

I've not before encountered someone with so broad a definition of "damage": what many of the rest of us would call routine cleaning (like removing the stubborn dirt on a car from actually using it on the road).

Edited by TSherbs, 15 December 2019 - 19:35.


#32 txomsy

txomsy

    Vintage

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 781 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 15 December 2019 - 22:37

iron gall nib damage-

 

https://kencrooker.com/igink-redux/

That was a very interesting and amusing read- Thanks.



#33 Bagdatapolous

Bagdatapolous

    Extremely Rare

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 238 posts

Posted 15 December 2019 - 22:55

Try spilling black ink on your carpet and explaining to your significant other that the carpet is not damaged, it is more like tea stains in a cup. Be prepared to duck.

 

If the pen had to go back to the manufacturer for a replacement barrel then that has to qualify as damage by anyones definition.

 

I have a Montblanc that became stained  due to their own Lavender ink, that needed a new barrel.



#34 Intensity

Intensity

    Antique

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,146 posts
  • Location:U.S.A.
  • Flag:

Posted 15 December 2019 - 22:58

The Aristotle ink has been reported by many to be very strong in IG and corrosion properties.  Most of the modern IG inks from respected companies don't include such high IG content and are formulated to be quite gentle.  For example Platinum Classic line or KWZ's IG inks.  There have been tests with steel nibs and Platinum Classic ink with no visible damage.

 

It's unfortunate where one or two very difficult inks give a bad name to a whole company or a whole type of ink.  I.e. not all inks are created equal, not all inks made by the same company are created equal.


Edited by Intensity, 15 December 2019 - 22:59.

“I admit it, I'm surprised that fountain pens are a hobby. ... it's a bit like stumbling into a fork convention - when you've used a fork all your life.” 


#35 aurore

aurore

    Vintage

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 537 posts

Posted 15 December 2019 - 23:19

Try spilling black ink on your carpet and explaining to your significant other that the carpet is not damaged, it is more like tea stains in a cup. Be prepared to duck.

 

If the pen had to go back to the manufacturer for a replacement barrel then that has to qualify as damage by anyones definition.

 

I have a Montblanc that became stained  due to their own Lavender ink, that needed a new barrel.

 

Inks are for writing, not for spilling. Spilling is a misuse, no warranty :)
You are right regarding definition, but only in case the TWSBI objectively had to be sent to the manufacturer and that was not just a subjective feeling. 
Any Diamine ink can be cleaned with a dishsoap/vinegar/bleach solution (not sure regarding Registrar's and of course shimmering inks, but any other can). 



#36 melissa59

melissa59

    Lots to Learn

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 561 posts
  • Location:Inland Empire, Southern California
  • Flag:

Posted 16 December 2019 - 00:32

I keep forgetting how people on this forum love to nitpick for the sake of nitpicking.

 

Let me rephrase my questions. Perhaps a bit of clarification with help garner some actual answers -- or maybe just fuel a couple new reasons to disagree.

 

What inks tend to leave a stain after you've used attempted to clean out your pen with a basic rinsing of room temperature distilled water that is brought into and expelled from the pen using the pens own filling system, bulb syringe or needle and syringe, but NOT with an ultrasonic cleaner, bleach, pen flush, vinegar, turpentine, red ink, tarter sauce, Zout, Oxyclean or other chemical or natural additive.

 

What inks have you heard can cause a rubber sac to weaken / melt / corrode / granulate / harden / or other chemical reaction that could lead to ink dripping, leaking, squirting, sweating or any other method that causes ink to leave the sac and get all over the inside of a pen?


"You have to be willing to be very, very bad in this business if you're ever to be good. Only if you stand ready to make mistakes today can you hope to move ahead tomorrow."
Dwight V. Swain, author of Techniques of the Selling Writer.

#37 aurore

aurore

    Vintage

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 537 posts

Posted 16 December 2019 - 00:42

What inks tend to leave a stain after you've used attempted to clean out your pen with a basic rinsing of room temperature distilled water that is brought into and expelled from the pen using the pens own filling system, bulb syringe or needle and syringe, but NOT with an ultrasonic cleaner, bleach, pen flush, vinegar, turpentine, red ink, tarter sauce, Zout, Oxyclean or other chemical or natural additive.


Stain visible in a clear demonstrator? Sooner or later almost any ink, especially if it spends a while in the pen. Those with red/purple components perhaps more than the others. A clear demonstrator is a sort of a pair of white shoes - looks nice but is extremely demanding.
Soap, bleach, commercial solutions for pens are very standard methods of cleaning. A basic routine.

#38 Intensity

Intensity

    Antique

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,146 posts
  • Location:U.S.A.
  • Flag:

Posted 16 December 2019 - 00:44

I keep forgetting how people on this forum love to nitpick for the sake of nitpicking.

 

Let me rephrase my questions. Perhaps a bit of clarification with help garner some actual answers -- or maybe just fuel a couple new reasons to disagree.

 

What inks tend to leave a stain after you've used attempted to clean out your pen with a basic rinsing of room temperature distilled water that is brought into and expelled from the pen using the pens own filling system, bulb syringe or needle and syringe, but NOT with an ultrasonic cleaner, bleach, pen flush, vinegar, turpentine, red ink, tarter sauce, Zout, Oxyclean or other chemical or natural additive.

 

What inks have you heard can cause a rubber sac to weaken / melt / corrode / granulate / harden / or other chemical reaction that could lead to ink dripping, leaking, squirting, sweating or any other method that causes ink to leave the sac and get all over the inside of a pen?

 

There are lots and lots of existing threads on this topic to date.  Some like to quote Richard Binder's famous article "The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly".  There is no definitive guide on all inks, and further it's contested whether some inks actually cause "damage" and whether they don't.  In this thread we can't even agree on what "damage" is.  Your best bet is to simply read as much as you can find on specific inks you like.  Plenty of inks are reviewed and discussed by lots of users across various forums.  Use cheap disposable pens for your own testing before moving apparently safe inks to your more valuable pens.


Edited by Intensity, 16 December 2019 - 00:47.

“I admit it, I'm surprised that fountain pens are a hobby. ... it's a bit like stumbling into a fork convention - when you've used a fork all your life.” 


#39 TSherbs

TSherbs

    Donor Pen

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,012 posts

Posted 16 December 2019 - 03:45

I keep forgetting how people on this forum love to nitpick for the sake of nitpicking.
 
Let me rephrase my questions. Perhaps a bit of clarification with help garner some actual answers -- or maybe just fuel a couple new reasons to disagree.
 
What inks tend to leave a stain after you've used attempted to clean out your pen with a basic rinsing of room temperature distilled water that is brought into and expelled from the pen using the pens own filling system, bulb syringe or needle and syringe, but NOT with an ultrasonic cleaner, bleach, pen flush, vinegar, turpentine, red ink, tarter sauce, Zout, Oxyclean or other chemical or natural additive.
 
What inks have you heard can cause a rubber sac to weaken / melt / corrode / granulate / harden / or other chemical reaction that could lead to ink dripping, leaking, squirting, sweating or any other method that causes ink to leave the sac and get all over the inside of a pen?


I don't ever rinse a pen with only water and its own filling action. That method does not work well enough on half my pens. Most of my several blue, black, and purple inks do not clean out sufficiently with that method, or I must work at it for too long. If you want an easy ink to clean, then I recommend something unsaturated like Waterman blue.

#40 Bagdatapolous

Bagdatapolous

    Extremely Rare

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 238 posts

Posted 16 December 2019 - 07:40

I keep forgetting how people on this forum love to nitpick for the sake of nitpicking.

 

Let me rephrase my questions. Perhaps a bit of clarification with help garner some actual answers -- or maybe just fuel a couple new reasons to disagree.

 

What inks tend to leave a stain after you've used attempted to clean out your pen with a basic rinsing of room temperature distilled water that is brought into and expelled from the pen using the pens own filling system, bulb syringe or needle and syringe, but NOT with an ultrasonic cleaner, bleach, pen flush, vinegar, turpentine, red ink, tarter sauce, Zout, Oxyclean or other chemical or natural additive.

 

What inks have you heard can cause a rubber sac to weaken / melt / corrode / granulate / harden / or other chemical reaction that could lead to ink dripping, leaking, squirting, sweating or any other method that causes ink to leave the sac and get all over the inside of a pen?

 

 

Well said.

 

Perhaps the only frustrating thing about FPN is how people contradict others when they have little in the way of information and argue with what others say based on their own experience.

 

I have only had two problem inks.

 

Diamine Grape went straight through a Duofold, a drop of ink per second came through the nib, not sure what was  going on there.

 

I used (a seperate bottle) of Diamine Grape and MB Lavendar in a Montblanc 146, the flow was terrible. Took it into MB for servicing and they said that the window had become stained, they asked if I had been using Diamine inks, I lied. :rolleyes:

 

Had a good look at the MB ink and it had seperated, clear liquid above a gelatinous liquid. I dipped a pencil into the ink and it left a long gooey trail from the bottle

 

 

MB replaced the barrel, I would expect that they would have tried to clean it first and failed presumably. I havent used Diamine Reds, Blues or Purples since then, or MB Lavendar for that matter.







Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: ink, damage, stain



Sponsored Content




|