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Damaging Inks

ink damage stain

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70 replies to this topic

#1 melissa59

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Posted 15 December 2019 - 06:19

I've read horror stories about Noodler's Bay State Blue staining demonstrators.

And recently, in another thread, someone posted that Noodler's Apache Sunset can be damaging to rubber ink sacs.

 

I'd like to know what other inks might damage a pen. 


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#2 silverlifter

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Posted 15 December 2019 - 06:32

Noodlers has pretty much cornered that market.


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#3 Noihvo

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Posted 15 December 2019 - 07:37

fpn_1576395404__img_5583.jpg

 

fpn_1576395422__img_5584.jpg


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#4 Parkette

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Posted 15 December 2019 - 07:55

Diamine stained this TWSBI

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#5 aurore

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Posted 15 December 2019 - 08:39

Well, I would not call staining a damage. Destroying feed or nib, causing cracks in barrels or sections - that would be a real damage. And indeed, if some ink destroys the sac in vingate pen, that may cause some damage.
Purely as for staining, it depends how easily it can be removed. For instance stains caused by nano inks are uneasy to get rid of unless ultrasonic is used, while most of the others can be removed with a dishsoap/bleach/vinegar solution (or some commerical cleaners for pens).


Edited by aurore, 15 December 2019 - 08:40.


#6 Karmachanic

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Posted 15 December 2019 - 08:45

Diamine stained this TWSBI

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#7 Uncial

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Posted 15 December 2019 - 10:32

I wouldn't call staining damage. Most staining - I think even BB Blue (although you might need to double check with Amber about this) - can be removed with an application of Noodler's Rattle Red. Perishing rubber sacs are argued back and forth here regularly and if it is a concern then it would be best to avoid inks that aren't very close to a neutral pH. Worth noting that many say Waterman is safe, yet their pH records hold some of the records of any ink out there. There was a thread posted about a year ago on various pH values of inks and it's worth seeking out. 

 

I know of only two inks that reputedly did damage to pens. One was a fake claim that turned out to be a fault with Lamy's feeds and the other was the highly corrosive Aristotle ink which has since been reformulated to be safe.



#8 Parkette

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Posted 15 December 2019 - 12:21

Well, I would not call staining a damage. Destroying feed or nib, causing cracks in barrels or sections - that would be a real damage. And indeed, if some ink destroys the sac in vingate pen, that may cause some damage.
Purely as for staining, it depends how easily it can be removed. For instance stains caused by nano inks are uneasy to get rid of unless ultrasonic is used, while most of the others can be removed with a dishsoap/bleach/vinegar solution (or some commerical cleaners for pens).

 

 

We differ on the definition of damage. If there is staining on the pen caused by one brand of ink, but not another, which can only be cleaned by an ultrasonic cleaner or dishsoap/bleach/vinegar solution or a commerical cleaners that that to me is damage, it may be temporary. No problems including staining when using Parker or Waterman inks.

 

I would say that if an ink has a negative effect on how a pen looks or works then that is damage.


Edited by Parkette, 15 December 2019 - 12:23.


#9 txomsy

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Posted 15 December 2019 - 12:45

You are of course entitled to your own opinions.

 

Personally, I wouldn't call that damage. If a hammer gets scratches on the head from its use on nails, or an acrylic watch sphere from use, I would call that normal for their intended use. I know that I can reduce scratches on the sphere of my Amphibia watch with a toothbrush and toothpaste, though I prefer not to remove them, as I do not care for the pristine look of a hammer or other tools. But that is just me.

 

My old grandfather's pocket watch, which I do care not to damage, I simply do not use. As I try to limit use of my father's MB to avoid real damage to it because of sentimental reasons. But I'm not that considerate with other tools, I do care for them, mind you, but I do also understand that their normal intended use bears some sacrifices.

 

But that's just me. An old-school careless user from the times when you had only one or two pens, never cleaned them and (ab)used them to their limits.



#10 Parkette

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Posted 15 December 2019 - 13:15

You are of course entitled to your own opinions.

 

Personally, I wouldn't call that damage. If a hammer gets scratches on the head from its use on nails, or an acrylic watch sphere from use, I would call that normal for their intended use. I know that I can reduce scratches on the sphere of my Amphibia watch with a toothbrush and toothpaste, though I prefer not to remove them, as I do not care for the pristine look of a hammer or other tools. But that is just me.

 

My old grandfather's pocket watch, which I do care not to damage, I simply do not use. As I try to limit use of my father's MB to avoid real damage to it because of sentimental reasons. But I'm not that considerate with other tools, I do care for them, mind you, but I do also understand that their normal intended use bears some sacrifices.

 

But that's just me. An old-school careless user from the times when you had only one or two pens, never cleaned them and (ab)used them to their limits.

 

 

You are entitled to your opinion too, it just happens to be different to mine and the OED which defines damage as

 

'physical harm that impairs the value, usefulness, or normal function of something'

 

If I was to try and sell a stained TWSBI I think that a reasonable person would say that it would be worth less than a tarnsparent pen that has no staining.

 

It could also be said that a pen sold as transparent that is no longer transparent has had its normal function impeded.

 

Lets not get silly about this.



#11 Bill P

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Posted 15 December 2019 - 13:27

To my knowledge most ink stains can be removed with Noodlers Rattler, Ou do you, or bleach...or other available remedies.

 

Damage to an ink sac or a nib....that would be damage.  IMO.



#12 aurore

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Posted 15 December 2019 - 13:35

 
 
You are entitled to your opinion too, it just happens to be different to mine and the OED which defines damage as
 
'physical harm that impairs the value, usefulness, or normal function of something'
 
If I was to try and sell a stained TWSBI I think that a reasonable person would say that it would be worth less than a tarnsparent pen that has no staining.
 
It could also be said that a pen sold as transparent that is no longer transparent has had its normal function impeded.
 
Lets not get silly about this.


The whole purpose of ink is to stain, as Nathan Tardiff says.
Almost any ink stains. The question is whether or not it is possible to clean fully in a diy way. Usually it is. The other question is how much visible it is. If one puts a highly saturated ink or an ink known to stain in a clear demonstrator and then complains the pen is stained...
Most stains can be cleaned with a vinegar or bleach solution, so this is hardly a damage.

#13 alexander_k

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Posted 15 December 2019 - 13:55

Ink does damage paper and if spilled it can damage furniture, floors, clothes ...BSB and other inks may stain parts of your fountain pens but I've been able to bleach out BSB-stained steel nibs more easily than clean stains of other, reputedly innocent nibs from ebonite barrels and caps. 



#14 aurore

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Posted 15 December 2019 - 15:57

Ink does damage paper and if spilled it can damage furniture, floors, clothes ...BSB and other inks may stain parts of your fountain pens but I've been able to bleach out BSB-stained steel nibs more easily than clean stains of other, reputedly innocent nibs from ebonite barrels and caps. 


Some inks behave surprisingly well in this matter. Pilot blue-black is very water resistant, not much fade resistant but easy to wash completely off in case of pens and clothes (with a bit of soap). While some inks leave a paper immediately but stain clothes forever.

Edited by aurore, 15 December 2019 - 15:57.


#15 Intensity

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Posted 15 December 2019 - 16:09

I also don't see ink staining as damage, because it's in most cases removable. A lot of safe inks can stain from a wide range of brands.  Diamine, Sailor, Pilot Iroshizuku, etc.  The degree of staining varies, and it can be removed with soaking or using inks that have cleaning properties as discussed, making your pen look like new again.  Damage means irreversible alteration in a direction away from ideal state.


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#16 Parkette

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Posted 15 December 2019 - 16:13

I also don't see ink staining as damage, because it's in most cases removable. A lot of safe inks can stain from a wide range of brands.  Diamine, Sailor, Pilot Iroshizuku, etc.  The degree of staining varies, and it can be removed with soaking or using inks that have cleaning properties as discussed, making your pen look like new again.  Damage means irreversible alteration in a direction away from ideal state.

 

 

In those cases where staining is not removable, as in the case in the pic, would you regard the staining as damage????


Edited by Parkette, 15 December 2019 - 16:14.


#17 Parkette

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Posted 15 December 2019 - 16:17

To my knowledge most ink stains can be removed with Noodlers Rattler, Ou do you, or bleach...or other available remedies.

 

Damage to an ink sac or a nib....that would be damage.  IMO.

 

 

I think the point is that there should be no need to repair the damage caused by ink staining, you should not need to do a fix when you are using a product correctly



#18 Intensity

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Posted 15 December 2019 - 16:23

 

 

In those cases where staining is not removable, as in the case in the pic, would you regard the staining as damage????

 

If it's truly not removable--sure.  I've not heard of non-removable staining yet--other than from porous materials on pens and things like sinks, wooden desks, etc. and maybe one or two known corrosive inks.  Particularly Diamine is a pretty safe ink brand, with caveats for more care being their IG ink and shimmer inks.  Which specific Diamine ink caused the blue staining in that TWSBI?


Edited by Intensity, 15 December 2019 - 16:23.

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#19 Parkette

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Posted 15 December 2019 - 16:23

I also don't see ink staining as damage, because it's in most cases removable. A lot of safe inks can stain from a wide range of brands.  Diamine, Sailor, Pilot Iroshizuku, etc.  The degree of staining varies, and it can be removed with soaking or using inks that have cleaning properties as discussed, making your pen look like new again.  Damage means irreversible alteration in a direction away from ideal state.

 

 

You contradict yourself, you say that if staining occurs then you can repair it, the point is that you should not need to carry out any process to remove the staining.

 

I havent been able to find any supporting evidence of your definition of damage "Damage means irreversible alteration in a direction away from ideal state."



#20 Intensity

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Posted 15 December 2019 - 16:26

 

 

You contradict yourself, you say that if staining occurs then you can repair it, the point is that you should not need to carry out any process to remove the staining.

 

I havent been able to find any supporting evidence of your definition of damage "Damage means irreversible alteration in a direction away from ideal state."

 

It's not a contradiction.  It's like saying that your tea cup stained with tea is now permanently damaged.  The tea cup was made for tea.  Periodically it can get stained.  You clean the stains with appropriate cleaning methods.  Cup continues working for you and doing its job.  You could argue that you don't want stains in your tea cups and that they should always rinse clean only with tap water....  But would you?

 

Speaking of removing tea stains, I've noticed some tea and/or water is TERRIBLE for cleaning tea cups.  I travel a few times a year, every year, and in some places in Europe, a tea as much as touches a cup in my hotel, and it stains and is difficult to remove without liberal application of soap and scrubbing with my fingers.  I almost never have this problem at home.  It does make me wonder if rinsing fountain pens with tap water is more difficult if it's "hard water" or "soft water", etc.


Edited by Intensity, 15 December 2019 - 16:29.

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