Sailor King Of Pen (Kop) Vs ?

[sightsome]

Suppose the following is true:

 

1. You have about $1,000 to spend on an amazing pen.

2. You have a few Sailors and LOVE the nibs, just love them—they are reliable, give a moderate wet-flow, look gorgeous.

3. You have a Pelikan M1000, love the softness of the nib, love the girth of the barrel, and love how wet it is.

4. You really want an ebonite pen that combines everything you love about Sailor with everything you love about Pelikan M1000.

 

Now, you could get a Sailor KOP ebonite, naturally. This seems the one that meets all these criteria in the closest way. But suppose also:

 

5. You really don't like the low ink capacity on the Sailor KOP, given that it can use only the low-capacity converter or Sailor cartridges.

 

What other options are there? Is there another pen—perhaps *sigh* without the #9 size Sailor nib—that has an interesting moderate-wet to wet and highly responsive nib that I should be looking at?

 

Also, if this has been discussed elsewhere, please refer me to the thread, and I will delete or end this thread, so as not to be too repetitive.

 

Thanks!

 

 

 

[Namo]

I contact a pen maker that can make me an ebonite body with a piston filling mechanism for either my Pelikan m1000 or my Sailor nib.

[mongrelnomad]

Pilot Namiki Yukari Royale Urushi. About $1200 in Japan and every bit the KOPs equal (I own both)... Not ebonite, but the only urushi-on-brass pen on the market.

[Lam1]

Some options:

 

Pilot Custom Urushi. The nib is not as soft as the Pelikan, but it is softer than the KoP.

It is Ebonite (except the section and end parts) and the ink capacity is pretty good (Pilot con-70 is my fav converter. But some people don't like them).

 

Another option is the modern Eversharp Decoband. They have models in ebonite, the nibs are pretty soft and it takes a ton of ink. The filling system is not my favorite, but it is ok. The pen is gorgeous and massive (so, that is a factor too).

[sightsome]

I contact a pen maker that can make me an ebonite body with a piston filling mechanism for either my Pelikan m1000 or my Sailor nib.

 

Not a bad idea! But I wonder how easy it would be to find a Sailor KOP nib (and feed?) without buying the whole pen.

 

I'm surprised someone hasn't come up with some sort of eyedropper work-around for this problem yet. Alas, the internet has no suggestions.

[zaddick]

 

Not a bad idea! But I wonder how easy it would be to find a Sailor KOP nib (and feed?) without buying the whole pen.

 

I'm surprised someone hasn't come up with some sort of eyedropper work-around for this problem yet. Alas, the internet has no suggestions.

You would be lucky to find a KOP nib and feed without a pen. Your best bet is to try to find one used or buy from Japan.

 

You cannot eyedropper a KOP because of the metal in the section (the cartridge cage). It could react with ink over time.

 

The cartridges for the pen are about 1ML, which is on par with most decent converters. I've seen someone who extended the cartridge with about half another one which should be easy enough.

 

Otherwise you can seek out the KOP REALO limited edition from 2005 (I think) of 600 pens OR pay a custom maker to friction fit a KOP nib and feed into a high capacity piston pen OR put a KOP nib and feed into a flexible nib factory collar and screw it into a pen that takes Bock 380 (#8) sized nibs. CONID kingsize pens seem a popular choice, but probably not under your budget after getting a KOP nib and feed.

[minddance]

if you absolutely LOVE Sailor nibs, then there is no parallel/replacement. Then get Sailor. they are in every way unique.

 

Do the Cross Peerless nibs write like Sailors?

 

Though I am big fan of Pelikan and Montblanc, they do not write like Sailors. And Sailors, no matter how one tunes/smooths them, will not write like Pelikans/MBlanc or any other pen.

[Vetinari]

Apologies for the (bleep) photo - entirely my fault, but it is just to show you together some of the pens mentioned here.

 

I agree with Namo, Manoj Deshmukh made me a slightly longer KOP “lookalike” with two different sections, one for a Pel 1000 nib, and another for a size 8 nib from Fpnibs (of course I can’t find the Pel 1000 section now to show you ...). That way I can use the pen as an eye dropper (admittedly, it is not my most used pen, but it hasn’t “burped” on me yet).

 

So that could be a solution, if you really like your Sailor nib, ask a custom pen maker to make a “KOP” in the material of your choice for one of your existing nibs.

 

But if you are impatient (like me), maybe pick the original KOP right away - bearing in mind that you can always have it covered in Urushi at a later stage if you should wish to (thank your for the suggestion, Zaddick!)

 

If I had to chose again, I would go for the KOP (shape and material) and use a refilled cartridge. That way I have a perfectly valid excuse for taking an extra pen (or nine) with me “just in case I run out of ink in the KOP”.

 

(I still prefer the softness of my Pel 1000 nibs in EF and F over the Sailors, but the KOP “flies more under the radar”)

 

 

[sightsome]

You would be lucky to find a KOP nib and feed without a pen. Your best bet is to try to find one used or buy from Japan.

 

You cannot eyedropper a KOP because of the metal in the section (the cartridge cage). It could react with ink over time.

 

The cartridges for the pen are about 1ML, which is on par with most decent converters. I've seen someone who extended the cartridge with about half another one which should be easy enough.

 

Otherwise you can seek out the KOP REALO limited edition from 2005 (I think) of 600 pens OR pay a custom maker to friction fit a KOP nib and feed into a high capacity piston pen OR put a KOP nib and feed into a flexible nib factory collar and screw it into a pen that takes Bock 380 (#8) sized nibs. CONID kingsize pens seem a popular choice, but probably not under your budget after getting a KOP nib and feed.

 

I've thought about extending a cartridge or somehow attaching an eyedropper to the end of a cartridge.

 

A KOP realo would be amazing. I have a 1911 realo and absolutely love it.

[sightsome]

C6875779-4BBA-4251-977D-62227803AC9E.jpegApologies for the (bleep) photo - entirely my fault, but it is just to show you together some of the pens mentioned here.

 

I agree with Namo, Manoj Deshmukh made me a slightly longer KOP “lookalike” with two different sections, one for a Pel 1000 nib, and another for a size 8 nib from Fpnibs (of course I can’t find the Pel 1000 section now to show you ...). That way I can use the pen as an eye dropper (admittedly, it is not my most used pen, but it hasn’t “burped” on me yet).

 

So that could be a solution, if you really like your Sailor nib, ask a custom pen maker to make a “KOP” in the material of your choice for one of your existing nibs.

 

But if you are impatient (like me), maybe pick the original KOP right away - bearing in mind that you can always have it covered in Urushi at a later stage if you should wish to (thank your for the suggestion, Zaddick!)

 

If I had to chose again, I would go for the KOP (shape and material) and use a refilled cartridge. That way I have a perfectly valid excuse for taking an extra pen (or nine) with me “just in case I run out of ink in the KOP”.

 

(I still prefer the softness of my Pel 1000 nibs in EF and F over the Sailors, but the KOP “flies more under the radar”)

 

 

 

I agree 100%. Sounds like we have similar tastes. I may just utilize a refilled cartridge at first to see how that works. I probably won't run out of ink in one day with that much ink in the barrel, especially since I tend to write with multiple pens throughout the day—one pen/ink color for lectures, another for notes on this project, another for notes on another project, etc.

[sightsome]

Some options:

 

Pilot Custom Urushi. The nib is not as soft as the Pelikan, but it is softer than the KoP.

It is Ebonite (except the section and end parts) and the ink capacity is pretty good (Pilot con-70 is my fav converter. But some people don't like them).

 

Another option is the modern Eversharp Decoband. They have models in ebonite, the nibs are pretty soft and it takes a ton of ink. The filling system is not my favorite, but it is ok. The pen is gorgeous and massive (so, that is a factor too).

I have the Pilot Custom 823. I like it’s nib, but it’s certainly not as responsive as any of my Sailors. How does the Custom Urushi stack up? What kind of feedback do you find it to have, if any? How wet is it?

[MalcLee]

Montegrappa had recently come out with a series of four varying celluloid pens fitted with Sailor nibs. Piston fillers but not the ebonite that youre looking for. It worked out to be under USD 1000 which was great when I pre-ordered them from two European ADs with the nib sizes that I wanted. I think LCduC and Novelli have sold out on these pens. Bittner and the Goulets in the US may have one or two left but I could be wrong. All the best with your search.

Edited November 3, 2019 by MalcLee

[Vetinari]

KOP ebonite vs Custom Urushi (for me)

 

the M nib on the KOP feels more “precise/surgical” than the M Custom Urushi, which is definitely softer (in between Sailor and Pel 1000), but it is brilliant if you like “shading” inks - giving this “vintagey” look to the ink.

 

compared to the 823 the nib on the Custom U is way more soft and “expressive”, but for me it is difficult to compare, because I have a FA, a stubbed Broad and a Sutab on the 823 (with ebonite feed) so no standard M like in the other two (but the B and the Sutab are definitely more rigid than the Custom)

 

Biggest problem for me is the look - the Custom U is great ... until I look at all the “bling” on the cap (maybe in black it would have been less “in your face”, but then the risk would have been it looking like a MB 149).

 

Stupid, heretic, suggestion, especially on the Japan Forum, but if you do not mind the snow cap and the metal rings’ immediately recognizable character, have you considered the MB 149 with the Expression nib? Big ink capacity, sturdy body, interesting nib (I have only tried it in the shop, and felt that the nib was too “scratchy” compared to the Pilot FA, but plenty of people seem to like it - maybe I tried a faulty nib or, not being my pen, I did not “push” it enough to appreciate it fully)... and it has an ink window.

 

Also, I’m “babysitting” the ebonite KOP more than my resin pens (afraid of scratching it, leaving it in the sun, get it wet with water for too long and so on), while the MB is “just” (precious) plastic - and you can have the snow cap removed and replaced with a neutral finial - if you think that it is too much “in your face”

 

I have considered the “Ammiraglio 1939” Sailor/Montegrappa joint venture, it looks really, really nice! but the price was too high here (1424 €), for a pen that I haven’t had the possibility to try, and I’m not sure about the ink capacity considered my other Montegrappas (and no ink window).

[Mongoosey]

Eboya Natsume Large

 

Nibs.com has one in stock right now:

https://www.nibs.com/pens/eboya/eboya-natsume-large-kumpuu-green-cc

 

They can tune that for you to your liking.

 

Eboya makes some of the best ebonite pens out there.

Edited November 3, 2019 by Mongoosey

[gerigo]

The Sailor KOP is unique. Period. Yes there are short comings, so embrace the pen for what it is. If you do, you are rewarded with wonderful writing sessions, and years of wonderful ownership.

[LostArk]

Ink capacity is the only downside of the KOP. There are ways around it, such as refilling cartridges or modding cartridges with ink sacs. I barely notice the low capacity (relative to a CON-70) when using the M nib, but I'd imagine the B nib is what might give you problems. I prefer any of the KOP models to the M1000, which I find to be a lumbering behemoth suitable only for BBB stubs and the like. The KOP w/ M nib is an agile writer's pen for those with a light hand. All imo, of course.

[zchen]

The first thought is Pilot Custom Urushi

[LostArk]

The first thought is Pilot Custom Urushi

 

 

This is a great option. In my experience the Custom Urushi handles slightly bigger than the KOP, but is still more deft than an M1000 (e.g. not back weighted by a heavy brass piston) and "solves" the ink capacity problem by way of the CON-70. The #30 nib on the Custom Urushi is softer and smoother than the Sailor, so which is better is a matter of taste. Urushi lacquer is also much harder than the finish on the (non-urushi) KOP ebonite / resin models, which is a boon if the pen is going to see heavy use (less visible micro scratches after some years).

[sightsome]

Thanks for that insight. At the end of the month Fountain Pen Hospital has its annual pen show where reps from the brands they carry come out and show off their stuff. That should give me an opportunity to try most of the pens suggested here out side by side.

[TitoThePencilPimp]

just to add, for anyone looking to get a KOP, while having experienced Sailors other smaller models.

 

I own 12 Sailors, 10 non KOP and 2 KOP. The KOP are the ebonite version. Anyhow, my first KOP Ebonite has the Sailor feedback but smoother, and writes closer to how Pilot makes there nibs. This has the old nib stamping. The new one, I received today has the new Sailor nib logo. It feels less like a Sailor, and more like a Pilot #15 nib. Writes well with no issues. Reverse writing is smooth, which I have been doing for an hour now.

 

Are the new nibs different from the previous ones?

 

In any case. I much prefer the smaller offerings from Sailor. Since the nib feels more distinctive. As it stands, the KOP writes like a Pilot with bad ink capacity.