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To Stub Or Not To Stub

stub nib flex

17 replies to this topic

#1 lmboyer

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Posted 01 November 2019 - 03:54

I'm considering trying something new here but unsure whether it will really suit my liking or not. I am starting to look for the next addition to my collection and I'm looking for a new brand and a new writing experience (though hopefully one I like, not one that's just different). I'm wondering about stub nibs, knowing that they have quite a following in the FP world. I'm also looking at a few new brands I haven't tried yet (mainly Visconti but unfortunately their steel nibs as the gold/palladium are a bit out of my price range, so it would be the Rembrandt).

 

One of my favorite pens so far is a Geha Oblique soft medium nib I have which is probably the closest I have to a stub/flex. I realize full well that the experience of a steel stub will be different than a gold semi-flex but I'm curious what you guys think - whether I should go for it and whether I will like it or if it will just feel kind of cheap. Alternatively I could also just go with a regular nib from one of these brands but at that point is it worth the cost if its just a steel nib? I do like the idea of a Visconti and even at the cheaper price point of the Rembrandt, the colors of the pen are gorgeous.

 

One last notable thing - I underwrite and also rotate my paper such that when I write, my pen is perpendicular to the direction of my writing - there is almost no slant/angle to my writing. I feel like with a 1.5mm stub this would be very thick in all of my writing, especially if I am not writing very large, am I wrong? (Ultimately I realize that I won't know until I try it, but I want to see what some others with more knowledge/experience think) Thanks guys!



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#2 BaronWulfraed

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Posted 01 November 2019 - 19:27

A 1.1 or smaller might be preferable. 1.5 is getting into the calligraphic/italic range in which the pen is 30-45 degrees to the line of text -- so the thickest lines would be top-left/lower-right diagonals, and thinnest in the lower-left/top-right diagonal. Horizontal and vertical would be the same (for 45 deg). In your orientation, you'd have very thick verticals, and very thin horizontals.



#3 Karmachanic

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Posted 01 November 2019 - 21:56

I'm with the Baron on starting with a 1.1. To find out if it suits you I suggest purchasing an inexpensive pen (Jinhao X750?) that takes a #6 nib, and buying a 1.1 for it. A -$10 experiment.


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#4 Herrjaeger

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Posted 01 November 2019 - 23:37

+1 for the recommendations above. If you like writing with that, and youve had a good experience with the GeHa Oblique, you might later take a slight step up from your inexpensive experiment, and try an Italix Pen from Mr Pen with an Oblique Italic nib(really a Cursive Italic) as a next level experiment, to see if the combination of Oblique with Cursive Italic/Stub might suit you even better. Their nibs come in an amazing array of grinds and sizes to play with before taking the plunge buying a more expensive pen and having it modified to your preference. Their customer service is excellent, and I bet if you wanted an Oblique nib that was more stub like than Italic, you could ask Mr. Pen if they could do that, as they grind their nibs in house. I attached a link to an SBRE video which demonstrates all the nib offerings from Mr. Pen with writing samples in case you move in that direction after trying inexpensive stubs as recommended by the first two replies to your post. Have fun.


#5 IThinkIHaveAProblem

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Posted 02 November 2019 - 01:35

Twsbi Eco with a 1.1mm is a great pen. So great, we have 4 of them in the house :)
Just give me the Parker 51s and nobody needs to get hurt.

#6 kestrel

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Posted 02 November 2019 - 02:05

My first stub was a Lamy Safari 1.1.  The 1.5 was too much but I found out without spending a lot money because the nibs are interchangeable.

 

Then there is the vintage Esterbrook.  Stub nibs are available in three widths at reasonable prices.  Anderson Pens has a nice selection and you can also find them on eBay.  I like the 2314-M.

 

Here is a link to a list of known Estie nibs at esterbrook.net:

 

http://www.esterbrook.net/nibs.shtml


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#7 Honeybadgers

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Posted 02 November 2019 - 02:34

I'd recommend going for a cheaper stub than even a mr italix one (I've honestly been disappointed with both my italic nibs from them)

 

I think TWSBI rarely ever has a dud stub. they're very nicely made. Lamy stubs are usually decent too.

 

I agree that a 1.1 stub is generally the sweet spot. 1.5 is going to be HUGE unless you have very roomy handwriting.

 

Personally, I prefer a 0.6 or 0.8 stub like what nemosine used to offer. those were stellar nibs.

 

And if you dislike the stub, like I do, maybe try an italic. I find that I really hate stubs but really like italics because they just talk to my hand better. You can get a cheap stub on ebay for a lamy and crisp it up with some 1800 grit sandpaper and micro mesh, and it requires none of the finesse of normal nib tuning. just hold it perpendicular and sand away.


Edited by Honeybadgers, 02 November 2019 - 02:34.

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#8 A Smug Dill

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Posted 02 November 2019 - 13:16

I'm considering trying something new here but unsure whether it will really suit my liking or not.


The whole point of experimentation (cf. "trying") is to discover that information for oneself, no?

As a consumer, there is never any guarantee that willingness and commitment to spend money will result in satisfaction; at best you get to undo a transaction and get your money back, but be equally as unsatisfied with having an unfulfilled outcome as before you made the purchase.

I am starting to look for the next addition to my collection and I'm looking for a new brand and a new writing experience (though hopefully one I like, not one that's just different). I'm wondering about stub nibs, knowing that they have quite a following in the FP world.


Then I suggest you start by asking yourself, "Why stub nibs? Why now?" Either you have a writing outcome in mind that you believe others have demonstrated to be achievable with stub nibs, or you're just seeking information and/or confirmation from first-hand experience. There is little point in getting and writing with a stub nib if the writing samples produced by others using stub nibs don't look pleasing on the page to you or aren't the sort of outcome you want to produce yourself.

I'm also looking at a few new brands I haven't tried yet (mainly Visconti but unfortunately their steel nibs as the gold/palladium are a bit out of my price range, so it would be the Rembrandt).


OK, but I don't understand that aspect of your contemplation.

Nemosine, for example, was selling of its last remaining stock of Singularity pens with three sizes (0.6mm, 0.8mm and 1.1mm) of steel Stub nibs for US$7.99 apiece. I bought a whole bunch of them, precisely because I wanted to discover for myself how they write (and expecting some of my friends, family or fellow Aussie fountain pen users might, too). If you haven't used a Stub nib before, and are in discovery mode, why not just get something cheap like that? Spend twenty-odd bucks, try out different nib widths, and decide whether stub nibs in general (or at a particular physical width) suit your liking. Who cares that the nibs are steel instead of gold, and that the pens are made of cheap plastic? Consider that twenty-odd bucks to be the fee/cost of information discovery; then you're in a better position to decide whether you want to buy a stub nib from a particular brand and how much you want to spend.

Don't expect to hit the jackpot, so to speak, the first time you spend money on a stub nib. Or every time, for that matter.
Let's give each other due respect, and approach discussion rigorously. We're all peers and equals here as fellow hobbyists, with common interests in the acquisition and use of fountain pens, but not necessarily any shared values, and no obligation to offer each other moral support for one's narrative or position.
 

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#9 lmboyer

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Posted 02 November 2019 - 16:49

Thanks for the feedback all - Not sure why it didn't occur to me to just experiment first but obviously that is a good way to proceed. Ordinarily the way I've grown my collection has been through targeting something I want to add to my collection and finding a pen that does that - Doesn't have to be an expensive one, and also doesn't have to be the only one that does that. 

 

As for the stub specifically, I've definitely been watching a lot of videos and love the look of 1.1 and 1.3 which I will probably end up buying on a cheap pen. The challenge (or perhaps fun) here is that most people doing reviews online tend to have different handwriting or writing angles or styles than me - not that I'm trying to be a special snowflake but I think this is truly the case for everyone. I'm just curious how I will adapt to something like this and what I would make of it. Guess its just time to experiment. Thanks!



#10 Honeybadgers

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Posted 03 November 2019 - 03:21

If you want to get in on a good stub for cheap, get a wing sung 3008 and a knockoff lamy 1.1 stub nib for it, total cost will be under $10 and you'll have a good little piston filling stub nib.


Selling a boatload of restored, fairly rare, vintage Japanese gold nib pens, click here to see (more added as I finish restoring them)


#11 5Cavaliers

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Posted 03 November 2019 - 03:52

Pilot Metropolitan with 1.0 stub (calligraphy nib). https://www.amazon.c...,aps,228&sr=8-4

 

These are quite reliable - more so that some of the others.  It also isn't quite as wide as other stubs. 


Edited by 5Cavaliers, 03 November 2019 - 03:53.

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#12 A Smug Dill

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Posted 03 November 2019 - 04:53

Pilot Metropolitan with 1.0 stub (calligraphy nib).


The Pilot steel CM nib (on the MR, Prera and Plumix) and the steel Stub nib on the Monteverde Rodeo Drive are my favourite Italic/Stub nibs, more so than the gold Stub nibs I have on my Pilot Capless and Aurora pens.
Let's give each other due respect, and approach discussion rigorously. We're all peers and equals here as fellow hobbyists, with common interests in the acquisition and use of fountain pens, but not necessarily any shared values, and no obligation to offer each other moral support for one's narrative or position.
 

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#13 Honeybadgers

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Posted 03 November 2019 - 09:04

I had to crisp up my pilot CM from my plumix but it is a permanently inked nib in a wing sung 698.


Selling a boatload of restored, fairly rare, vintage Japanese gold nib pens, click here to see (more added as I finish restoring them)


#14 Bobje

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Posted 03 November 2019 - 12:44

Listen to 5Cavs. A Pilot Metropolitan with a stub meets all your requirements and will perform well for years, regardless of what you decide, regardless of whether the stub just enhances your existing handwriting or if you learn italic.

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#15 Bo Bo Olson

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Posted 03 November 2019 - 15:29

"""One of my favorite pens so far is a Geha Oblique soft medium nib I have which is probably the closest I have to a stub/flex."""

 

If it's a piston pen, and not a school pen one with a serial number which are not stubs(they have that American Bump under the nib :P  and are 'only' regular flex...(I only have two of them)....

 

.If a 790(3, one a maxi-semi-flex)/760(1)/725(1) or so, it is a stub.....the German pens that made semi-flex pens, Soennecken, Kaweco, Osmia, MB, Pelikan and Geha were all semi-flex (or maxi-semi-flex) stubs.

 

With Geha the steel semi-flex nibs are as great as the grand Osmia steel nibs, in they are both Degussa nibs. Degussa took Osmia's nib factory in 1932 for debt.  They maintained Osmia's very high standards. The gold and steel nibs from both are great and equal.

A couple of respected posters said the semi-flex Geha nibs are a tad more springy than the '50-65 era Pelikan semi-flex nibs. I tested my Gehas vs my that era Pelikans and found they were right. :yikes:

 

The great Soennecken pen that warred with MB for generations pen used Degussa nibs :o , as it died in the mid-50-early '60's. Soennecken died, in it did not get into the ball point production early enough and lost customers, to MB and Pelikan who did go Ball Point early.

The early '50 (pre-ball point)-1890 Soennecken nibs were grand....In Soenecken like MB were in a level higher than my wallet I only have one Soennecken, my best Wet Noodle. Degussa is a grand nib.

 

So you not only have a stub already, you have it in semi-flex. :thumbup:

 

What is marked on your pen?

And could be you don't want the oblique, which requires a bit of cant....or as many say, nib rotation to work well.

 

PS I do regret (now years later) I traded my steel Geha OB nib to a passed pal in England..............steel semi-flex Geha nibs are :thumbup: top of the line. ..So of course are the gold nibs. :D


Edited by Bo Bo Olson, 03 November 2019 - 15:41.

German vintage '50-70 semi-flex stubs and those in oblique give the real thing in On Demand line variation. Modern Oblique is a waste of money for a shadow of line variation. Being too lazy to Hunt for affordable vintage oblique pens, lets you 'hunt' for line variation instead of having it.

www.nibs.com/blog/nibster-writes/nibs-germany & https://www.peter-bo...cts/nib-systems,

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 


#16 lmboyer

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Posted 03 November 2019 - 17:51

What is marked on your pen?

And could be you don't want the oblique, which requires a bit of cant....or as many say, nib rotation to work well.

 

It is only marked OM on the feed. Its a nice green striated body with a piston filler and has 3 rings on the cap/clip. I have gotten used to the oblique nib on it - didn't take too long and I love how it is a very smooth writer without much pressure, but even with some, I get some nice variation in my writing. 

 

I will also check out the metropolitan. seems a great idea actually



#17 Ted A

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Posted 03 November 2019 - 19:03

Do you have a Lamy? Any one except the 2000? You can get a 1.1 or 1.5 stub nib only and the nibs are easy to swap. 


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#18 Bo Bo Olson

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Posted 04 November 2019 - 09:10

Looks like you have a medium-large 760 (Pelikan 140 size), in those had stripped body's. The standard sized (same size as the 499) 790 the always black and gold.

My 760 is gray and black stripped.

 

One of the problems with vintage obliques....IMO the Only oblique a right hander should buy. Folks twisted their fingers and hand, arm or hung on the chandelier...trying to make it do Something....(what I don't know) when all one had to do was get the proper cant angle on the nib and write normal.

 

Hold your oblique nib to the light, to see if the grind is 15 or 30 degrees.

If 15 degrees, cap the pen using the clip as an aiming point. Aim it in the middle between the slit and the right hand edge of the nib. Then grip the pen in the air.....put it down to the paper and the nib will have the proper cant to it.

 

If it has a more rare but not all that scarce 30 degree grind, aim the clip at the right outside edge of the nib, grip in air put to paper and write, it will have the proper cant to the nib.

 

As an under writer no matter how you place the paper it should work.

 

Back in the day when Richard was still working, there was a lot of confusion about how to get an oblique to work, until I came up with my trick............then there were still others that still had problems. Richard said, either have the paper straight up at 90 degrees or laid flat at 180 degrees, and after that, there were few to no posts about oblique problems. 

I had no problem holding at 45 degrees.....but folks differ.

 

I also lucked out having a Pelikan 140 OB, with it's wide sweet spot, so it was easy to learn not to hold the nib straight..........an OM or OF requires much more precise nib cant placement to write well.


German vintage '50-70 semi-flex stubs and those in oblique give the real thing in On Demand line variation. Modern Oblique is a waste of money for a shadow of line variation. Being too lazy to Hunt for affordable vintage oblique pens, lets you 'hunt' for line variation instead of having it.

www.nibs.com/blog/nibster-writes/nibs-germany & https://www.peter-bo...cts/nib-systems,

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 




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