Lamy 2000 Cleaning Wierdness

[Storch]

Ok, so this is a bit strange and I wanted to check here to see if I have anythignserious to worry about.

I was cleaning my Lamy 2000 and it had been a while since it's last bath so after I had gotten the insides mostly clean by manually cycling clean water through with the piston, I left it to soak, full of clean water, in a glass nib down resting on a paper towel. It was in there for probabaly 48 hours. When I took it out, it looked like the portion of the makralon body that was in the water was noticeably lighter than the part that wasn't. I mean there was a clearly visibly line where the water level had been.

Is this somehting normal for this material? Will it go back to black? Is there anything I can do to help it get there?

Thanks.

[BernieC]

Did you use tap water?

[BDarchitect]

Your local water may have a high mineral content or some other chemistry that has deposited that residue. You might try soaking it in distilled water to see if that will remove the stain.

I have heard of some people who only clean their pens with distilled water for reasons I suppose like this.

[Honeybadgers]

Don't soak pens in water unless you HAVE to. You should practically never have a situation where a pen needs that kind of treatment.

 

If you REALLY need to clean that interior, unscrew the section (careful to not lose the clutch ring) and use a Q tip to scrub the inside of the barrel. Lube the piston with a tiny bit of grease on the Q tip and swab the inside of the barrel. This shouldn't need doing more than once every 1-3 years, basically when you feel the piston getting stiff.

 

As an actual resolution to your problem, I suspect it's hard water. dilute some white vinegar, put it on a paper towel, and scrub the barrel. rinse with lots of clean water and dry it manually.

[Glenn-SC]

Don't soak pens in water unless you HAVE to. You should practically never have a situation where a pen needs that kind of treatment.

 

Why not?

My local water supply is fairly "soft" and every used Fountain Pen that comes into my collection and every used pen that is going out of rotation gets a soaking (followed by a nib down drain into paper towel) to clean the feed system of dried ink. I've not had and issues in doing so.

Edited October 22, 2019 by Glenn-SC

[Storch]

Hey everyone, thanks for the info.

By way of an update, I think I figured out hwta was going on. It turns out I do not believe the water did anything to the makrolon. Instead I think, becasue it was allowed to sit for a couple fodays, the makrolon acytually absorbed some of the water and swelled a bit, giving it a grey-er appearance. I say this because, having let the pen dry out sine posting my inital question, the color has darkened back to what it was before I cleaned it.

Thanks again.

[Honeybadgers]

 

Why not?

My local water supply is fairly "soft" and every used Fountain Pen that comes into my collection and every used pen that is going out of rotation gets a soaking (followed by a nib down drain into paper towel) to clean the feed system of dried ink. I've not had and issues in doing so.

 

Water is a solvent. It's a polar solvent, yes, and plastic is nonpolar (like dissolves like) but water can have nonpolar contaminants that don't play nice with nonpolar materials, can get into places that don't easily dry out (and rust or corrode metal bits like the clutch ring on the inside of the 2000) can hydrate and cause quite a few different kinds of resin to swell (water contamination caused by ethanol's propensity to pull water from the atmosphere was what ruined a huge number of Aprilia and Ducati resin fuel cells)

 

Ebonite doesn't like soaking. nor does celluloid.

 

just. no. Don't do it unless you have to.

 

nib down on a paper towel is all it should need for routine care. soaking is for restorations. You can obviously let it soak for 10-30 minutes in cool water without much harm (as long as you're certain water isn't creeping into any place with metal that can't be dried - i.e. don't stick a lever filler completely in water and let it wet the outside of a sac, it'll ruin the sac almost immediately by making it stick to the sides of the pen) but more than a few hours is a gamble I would never recommend because there is just no benefit to be had.

 

Never forget that everything is a chemical. Water is an incredibly power solvent. We need oxygen to survive, but it's also a medication, and too much can kill you.

Edited October 22, 2019 by Honeybadgers

[Honeybadgers]

Hey everyone, thanks for the info.

By way of an update, I think I figured out hwta was going on. It turns out I do not believe the water did anything to the makrolon. Instead I think, becasue it was allowed to sit for a couple fodays, the makrolon acytually absorbed some of the water and swelled a bit, giving it a grey-er appearance. I say this because, having let the pen dry out sine posting my inital question, the color has darkened back to what it was before I cleaned it.

Thanks again.

 

let it dry somewhere humid, moving it to progressively more dry environments.

 

if you think there's a chance you made it swell (and there IS a real possibility of that, the porous fiberglass in the makrolon could easily suck up some water) then there's a HUGE risk of it cracking as it shrinks.

 

This is the worst case scenario.

[Glenn-SC]

just. no. Don't do it unless you have to.

 

 

And I say Yes!

I repeat, I have never had issues with soaking pens in clean cool water for up to days at a time.

Never! ( Well there was that one British casein pen.)

 

And Ink is mostly water, or worse, and touches the same surfaces. Constantly.

 

I am sorry if you had a bad experience with water and a pen. I live my life based on mine, and water (deionized if necessary) has worked well for me and mine.

[Aysedasi]

I confess I've never had issues with soaking pens to remove impacted ink. But then again, I don't own many expensive vintage pens....

[Honeybadgers]

I confess I've never had issues with soaking pens to remove impacted ink. But then again, I don't own many expensive vintage pens....

 

This is a situation where soaking can be useful. I've had to soak a few restorations. But you gotta be careful, particularly with ebonite, as soaking opens pores and can cause them to absorb the ink, discoloring them.

[Honeybadgers]

And I say Yes!

I repeat, I have never had issues with soaking pens in clean cool water for up to days at a time.

Never! ( Well there was that one British casein pen.)

 

And Ink is mostly water, or worse, and touches the same surfaces. Constantly.

 

I am sorry if you had a bad experience with water and a pen. I live my life based on mine, and water (deionized if necessary) has worked well for me and mine.

 

I'm a biochemistry major, My experience is not only anecdotal (I've seen firsthand damage) but based on an understanding of the actual molecular interactions involved. Water doesn't touch a lot of the surfaces you're describing. Water doesn't touch the exterior of the L2k. And incidental touching is just not the same as soaking. Not at all. As is the reverse, wherein something is soaked routinely (inside of an eyedropper) but is not visible nor routinely allowed to evaporate and leave behind impurities. Oftentimes, when a surface that IS routinely kept wet, like the inside of a piston filler or eyedropper, those impurities, such as the dyes in the ink, cause the chamber to seize up. And a rubber sac kept routinely filled is hydrated, but if the ink is allowed to dry, will turn rock hard and die in EXTREMLY short order. Same reason you don't get the outside of the sac wet, because it doesn't STAY wet, it dries out, hardens, and sticks to the sides of the pen walls. Which is another reason why we coat the sacs in talcum powder, to keep them lubricated and from sticking due to the incidental humidity degrading the sac, whereas keeping it wet on the inside is safe.

 

You will likely be okay soaking many types of modern resin, PBA, acrylics, etc (be careful with acrylics though because some can EXTREMELY easily discolor. a few penbbs acrylics are hyper prone to discoloration). But ebonite, makrolon (which depends on its structures but the form lamy uses is slightly porous) celluloid and wood are all prone to damage if left to soaking because they can naturally uptake some water, which deforms their structures, and if allowed to dry too rapidly can split, as well as leave residues from the water on or in the pen's surfaces. Unless you're using distilled water, you're going to be risking the hard residues like calcium and sodium and chlorides (all of which can be damaging as well) on the surfaces of the pen.

 

And always remember that nothing is completely insoluble in a given solvent. Some things are very insoluble, but will still have some degree of solubility that water can attack.

 

So, in short, there is no reason to push your luck.

Edited October 23, 2019 by Honeybadgers

[jchch1950]

Avery interesting and educational topic.

[eachan]

 

I'm a biochemistry major, My experience is not only anecdotal (I've seen firsthand damage) but based on an understanding of the actual molecular interactions involved. Water doesn't touch a lot of the surfaces you're describing. Water doesn't touch the exterior of the L2k. And incidental touching is just not the same as soaking. Not at all. As is the reverse, wherein something is soaked routinely (inside of an eyedropper) but is not visible nor routinely allowed to evaporate and leave behind impurities. Oftentimes, when a surface that IS routinely kept wet, like the inside of a piston filler or eyedropper, those impurities, such as the dyes in the ink, cause the chamber to seize up. And a rubber sac kept routinely filled is hydrated, but if the ink is allowed to dry, will turn rock hard and die in EXTREMLY short order. Same reason you don't get the outside of the sac wet, because it doesn't STAY wet, it dries out, hardens, and sticks to the sides of the pen walls. Which is another reason why we coat the sacs in talcum powder, to keep them lubricated and from sticking due to the incidental humidity degrading the sac, whereas keeping it wet on the inside is safe.

 

You will likely be okay soaking many types of modern resin, PBA, acrylics, etc (be careful with acrylics though because some can EXTREMELY easily discolor. a few penbbs acrylics are hyper prone to discoloration). But ebonite, makrolon (which depends on its structures but the form lamy uses is slightly porous) celluloid and wood are all prone to damage if left to soaking because they can naturally uptake some water, which deforms their structures, and if allowed to dry too rapidly can split, as well as leave residues from the water on or in the pen's surfaces. Unless you're using distilled water, you're going to be risking the hard residues like calcium and sodium and chlorides (all of which can be damaging as well) on the surfaces of the pen.

 

And always remember that nothing is completely insoluble in a given solvent. Some things are very insoluble, but will still have some degree of solubility that water can attack.

 

So, in short, there is no reason to push your luck.

 

I agree with every word you say. My evidence is more anecdotal but I've fixed more than 3000 pens since the last time I soaked anything. However I have found that there are some who are so invested in soaking pens and pen parts that they will never change.

[Glenn-SC]

 

I'm a biochemistry major, My experience is not only anecdotal (I've seen firsthand damage) but based on an understanding of the actual molecular interactions involved.

That explains a lot.

Dont believe me.

They are your pens and you treat them as you wish.

But dont proclaim that you know The Truth.

Do a search and see the numbers of recommendations to soak a pen in cool water.

 

Perhaps you believe Parker Pen Co:

HOW TO CLEAN YOUR NIB

 

Remove the cartridge or converter.

 

Flush the nib and gripping section with cool water.

 

A converter not being used for ink can be used to flush the nib by drawing cool water up through the nib and forcing the water out.

 

Lightly blow air through the nib assembly to clear all liquid out of the nib.

 

Dry the nib and gripping section with a lint-less soft cloth.

 

Repeat this several times, then dry the nib and gripping section with a soft cloth or paper towel.

 

If a pen clogs, place the nib and gripping section in a cup of cool water.

 

Let the nib and gripping section soak up to 24 hours. Parker ink is water-soluble and will dissolve in water.

 

SOAK UP TO 24 HOURS

 

But do what you feel is right for your pens.

[Glenn-SC]

Warning

Mont Blanc does not recommend using anything other than warm water to clean a Mont Blanc fountain pen.

[sirgilbert357]

Warning

Mont Blanc does not recommend using anything other than warm water to clean a Mont Blanc fountain pen.

 

 

Well, they are the exception. We all know Mont Blanc got the formula for their "precious resin" from the flying spaghetti monster aliens and as such it isn't subject to the normal laws of nature here on earth...

[Glenn-SC]

 

Well, they are the exception.

And Parker. I would bet that the same stands for Waterrnan, and Lamy, and most if not all the others.

I have no need to collect additional supporting evidence to make my point.

[sirgilbert357]

And Parker. I would bet that the same stands for Waterrnan, and Lamy, and most if not all the others.

I have no need to collect additional supporting evidence to make my point.

Lol, I was being sarcastic. I agree with you. I've left things soaking overnight before in a tall shot glass with no ill effects.

[ErrantSmudge]

I had the same issue as the OP, letting my Lamy 2000 soak overnight to clean out some tenacious blue ink. The part of the Makrolon barrel that was submerged in the water took on a grayish cast.

 

After some amount of time (a day or two) it returned to normal. I probably won't soak my 2000 like that again, but I think nothing of letting most pens soak overnight in plain water to get out set-in ink.