Sheaffer Grande Connoisseur Tortoise Shell - Sellers Beware Of Ebay!

[Astonmv8]

I was looking over the site and I was not sure where to place this post but you need to be aware

 

I have recently sold this gorgeous Sheaffer Grand Connoisseur in Tortoise shell on Ebay to a chap in the US. The sale was great and the buyer (Douglas) was a pleasure to deal with. The pen was wrapped and sent to the UK depot of EBays Global Shipping Programme (GSP). Any way a couple of days later to my horror (and the buyer) EBay informed us that the pen is on the restricted list due to its "Tortoise Shell" and cannot be sent!!

 

The buyer and I contacted EBay rather dismayed with this comment, we explained that it is not genuine Tortoise Shell only a "finish" I also offered to send details of a reference website that would confirm this however it fell on deaf ears! I was told that not to worry you will not lose any money to which I replied it is not about the money its about a rare collectable pen that is going to be destroyed, yes destroyed!!

 

I took this further up the chain of command and was told the same that due to "Tortoise Shell" they cannot send to the US. They even told me that they cannot return it me and it will be destroyed to prevent it from getting on the market again.

 

Sorry for the long message however I thought you need to know just in case you sell a pen that is described as Tortoise Shell, Alligator etc. finish

 

In the meantime this is what has been destroyed

 

[pen lady]

Oh my goodness that's just terrible. I wonder how the algorithm would cope with ''faux tortoise shell"?

[ardene]

This is just sad.

[joss]

Your story reads as if it is an April fool's day joke.

 

Does it mean that there might not have been a problem if you had described the content of the package as "collectible fountain pen" ?

 

Do you have any idea whether this discussion & decision remained within Ebay or did it also involve UK customs? It is difficult to believe that customs are this stupid. I am not sure about Ebay though.

[Astonmv8]

I agree this is terrible, All correspondence has come through the EBay Global Shipping Program but they say that they are partnered with Pitney Bowes. This is what they said

 

I'm contacting you from eBay's Global Shipping Programme department regarding your eBay item "Sheaffer Grande Connaisseur Tortoiseshell Fountain Pen 18k Medium Nib - 274025021570". My name is Danny and I am happy to assist you today. Firstly, I want to assure you that you are 100% protected here by the Global Shipping Programme.

I understand you are querying why your item could not be sent forward to you. I appreciate why this is concerning for you. So many people find items they have been searching for on ebay and when a transaction doesn't go to plan it is very disappointing for all involved in the transaction, not least of all us here at ebay.

You may or may not be aware that we are partnered with Pitney Bowes for our international deliveries. We are in charge of the sale of the item and they are in charge of the shipping and item logistics. We very much reply on their expertise when it comes to international shipping restrictions. They review each and every item that comes through the shipping centre to make sure it can be shipped and (as in this case) retain it if it cant.

I have consulted with Pitney Bowes on your behalf and they confirm that item contained a material that is restricted form import, tortoiseshell. By preventing the item being sent at this early stage we were able to inform you and the buyer that the item would not be delivered and a full refund issued to the buyer on your behalf. As you are aware no funds have or will be removed from your account to cover this refund. This is paid by ebay and you retain the original payment.

In relation to your query about the current status of the item. Our shipper has an agreement with sellers that if the items arrive to our shipping centre and cannot be forwarded on because they are restricted then our shipper will not return the item. This is because you (as outlined above) as the seller has been paid. The item is then subject to a liquidation process which means that it may become available for resale in the marketplace. Unfortunately that liquidation is not something that ebay is a party to so we do not have a way to allow you to re-purchase the item.

Myself and the buyer told them several times that it is not real tortoise shell but to no avail, really disappointed!

[sansenri]

this is not just sad, or terrible... it's b... stupid.

How is it possible that people this stupid exist on earth?

How is it possible that their stupidity cannot even be questioned?

How is it possible that they cover responsibilities where they can cause such damage?

Stupidity unfortunately can do more harm than evil...

[BillH]

meanwhile, eBay continues to allow the fake MB sellers, to say nothing about the fake court shoes, free rein on their website...

 

[da vinci]

Subject to a liquidation process ? That makes no sense given the context. Outrageous!

[pen lady]

Seems like a good reason not to use that blasted Global Shipping Programme ever again!

[FredRydr]

Danny wrote:

 

...I have consulted with Pitney Bowes on your behalf and they confirm that item contained a material that is restricted form import, tortoiseshell...Myself and the buyer told them several times that it is not real tortoise shell but to no avail, really disappointed!

 

Perhaps the news wire services should pick up this story, with the help of a local reporter near the buyer.

[eachan]

There is no limit to the stupidity of officialdom. It seems it is best to avoid Ebay's shipping.

[joss]

It is mind blowing that Pitney Bowes, which is a 100% commercial company, claims the right to destroy other people's property and that they do this with Ebay's approval. UK customs should be in charge of such decisions but most likely they were never involved.

Ebay' s global shipping program is a genious method of Ebay to make easy money on the buyer's expense but this case is an eyeopener on the real power of these commercial companies and on how they gradually take over duties that are essentially governmental responsabilities.

[sansenri]

If it were not for the risk to spend more money than worthwhile I'd be tempted to get a lawyer onto this one...

or possibly the press, as mentioned

[inkstainedruth]

Sounds as if they are leaning on some stupid (and likely badly written and coded) algorithm. The more technology is supposed to "improve" our lives and we get told "Oh, this is BETTER", the more instances of voicemail H*ell, bots on website chatrooms, etc. (which kluge if there is any deviation from "the script". Recently I had to *un*install software from my laptop because the update to Safari was "incompatible" with the version of iMovie that was installed at the same time. Now I don't care so much about iMovie -- but it ALSO was incompatible with iPages, which I use A LOT.... Had to uninstall the most recent version of iPages, and involved many hours of chatroom and phone call BS (someone in "Creative Media" [which turns out to be just another flavor of Apple Support, BTW] told me "Oh, that's supposed to be like that!" "No, no it isn't. It worked JUST fine until the update to Safari was installed. Don't your people bother to TALK to each other in other groups?" I'm now looking at the App Store icon with the little red dot saying an update is available. Not happening until I can have someone guarantee that it won't bork iPages on me again (and oh, boy, did I leave low marks on the "How'd we do?" survey. I think the highest rating on any of the questions was a "2"....
I'm with sansenri -- get a lawyer to send a letter to Pitney Bowes (and CC eBay) and tell them if the pen is destroyed you want compensation. Then either you or the buyer should tell them that you will take them to Small Claims Court. I'm betting that the judge will find in your favor -- if it gets that far. Because it will cost THEM a lot more in legal fees. My husband is currently having problem with a trucking company, which claim that he owes them something like $880 US for "damage" to the engine of a truck he rented last spring for putting some sort of additive in the fuel tank. Which is *impossible* because the fuel is dispensed using a different size and shape nozzle. Oh, when he got the invoices from the company, they didn't even have the correct dates on the paperwork, wrong distance traveled, etc. A friend of some friends of his is a lawyer, and my husband paid the guy $75 to write a letter to the company telling them to cease and desist or he WILL take them to Small Claims Court. He'll have to do that in Mississippi, the state where the truck was rented, which is a PITA. But the odds are good that if it comes to that, THEY will have to pay the costs -- including for him to drive down there and get a hotel room and meals and such. Of course the letter with the signature "[name], Esq." might just do the trick too.

This, by the way, is the SAME trucking company that once gave us a truck with a defective switch on the lift gate (it had smoke coming out of it when we were first inspecting the truck!); and then about 4 years ago, they gave him a truck that had the turbo charger seize up on him and his co-driver. They limped it to a truck stop, and eventually hired a couple of Teamsters to transfer the contents (a fully loaded 26' box truck so crammed that when it was being loaded, the co-driver was crawling around on top of the contents -- which included a couple of professional grade propane powered convection ovens, which are pretty d*mned heavy) to the replacement truck. When we got home, with the replacement truck, and we told the guy in the office what had happened, he said "Oh, [our company guys helped you reload?" "No." "Ohhhh...." and we got comped for the entire second week's rental. But my husband and our friend never made it out of Ohio the first night. And it's NORMALLY about a 20 hour drive to south central Mississippi from here.

You said that the buyer is in the US? He may want to point out to Pitney Bowes and eBay that this might very well be construed as a case of his 4th Amendment rights being violated (illegal search and seizure). THAT will bring in the ACLU.... And then you don't have to worry about calling the press -- the ACLU will probably be doing that themselves!

But yes, in the meantime this totally sucks! I've ordered stuff on eBay a few times from overseas sellers and the only problem I can remember having is that the first pen I ordered from Rolf Thiel made it through US Customs okay, but then was shipped to somewhere in New England before being re-routed to Pittsburgh. That's it, as far as I can remember.

Oh, and eBay's IT people never considered the possibility of someone making multiple purchases from the same original listing on a "Second Chance Offer", apparently. I had gotten outbid but the original high bidder didn't bother to read the listing completely: you were bidding one your choice of color from five pens and that person then reneged on the deal, thinking that it was for ALL FIVE. But I couldn't get the website to accept that I was buying multiple pens on the "Second Chance Offer", which was a couple of days after the original auction had ended. Spent most of the day sending increasingly hysterical messages to the seller, and waiting for responses, back and forth (the seller was in the Netherlands). Finally the seller PULLED the listing, redid it as a "Buy It Now" at my price, and I was able to order the three pens I wanted at my price times three.... But it took all day (and for the seller, probably a good chunk of the night because of the difference in time zones). I had bought stuff from that seller before; and then a few months ago got another pen and my price offer was immediately accepted (probably remembered me from the previous transaction, and maybe even from the first pen I bought a few years ago). And absolutely no problems that time. Go figure.... In fact, I was using that very pen earlier this afternoon....

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[FredRydr]

... get a lawyer to send a letter to Pitney Bowes (and CC eBay) and tell them if the pen is destroyed you want compensation. Then either you or the buyer should tell them that you will take them to Small Claims Court. I'm betting that the judge will find in your favor ....

 

These facts on an hourly basis?

 

 

I do like my Connaisseur stub a lot, though I opted for basic black. Thank goodness it's not colored with ivory lacquer!

Edited October 20, 2019 by FredRydr

[inkstainedruth]

I do like my Connaisseur stub a lot, though I opted for basic black. Thank goodness it's not colored with ivory lacquer!

 

You know, I was just thinking something very similar last night -- my first Pelikan M200 Café Crème was purchased on eBay from Rolf Thiel at Missing Pens.... Fortunately, he shipped using Deutsche Post (which has tracking), and then after it got through US Customs I could continue to track it's location with USPS.

But it's also making me a little happy that I decided to spend my birthday gift Amazon gift card on a couple of CDs available here in the US, directly through Amazon. Rather than blowing it on an M600 Violet and White through Amazon UK Global -- which gets treated as if it's a 3rd party seller. After my experience with a CD and a 3rd party seller last winter, I'm a little leery of 3rd party sellers in general (ironically, the seller was an HOUR from my house...). That seller got the feedback that was richly deserved; then contact me and offered a partial refund if I "amended" my feedback.... Oh, I amended it alright.... I just don't think they'll have liked how.... Because the "amended" review was "Oh, this is what the seller then pulled on me. Don't use them!"

Actually, there's a local woman who takes businesses to Small Claims Court on a regular basis for things like "Not having the price listed on either the item or on the shelf" (not having the price shown is illegal in PA). She was on the news fairly regularly for fighting various businesses (sort of an amateur Betty Furness) because as a senior citizen she's worried about people on fixed incomes being cheated. And the advantages to Small Claims Court are that (1) it's a low filing fee; (2) you don't need to have a lawyer -- you can represent yourself; and (3) companies will often settle before it gets to that point because it costs THEM more in time and effort to fight you -- and way more in legal fees.... Especially when they lose, because they also have to then pay court costs. The only disadvantage is that there's a cap on settlements (I seem to recall that in PA it's a maximum of $1200, but might be less; nope, I'm wrong -- I just Googled it and in PA it's $8000!)

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[Parker51]

As a Citizen of the U.K., I suggest you contact your MP. This kind of stupidity would make great fodder for them.

[terim]

Yikes, I'm selling tortoise-shell Connaisseur ballpoints on eBay. Good thing I don't use the global shipping program! I'd rather fill out the customs form myself, thank you.

 

Usually the eBay algorithm catches these banned phrases before you list the item, but maybe that's not what happens on eBay UK. "Ivory" is also a problem, so I describe the color as "cream" or just list it on my web site where I am the boss.

[PAKMAN]

Wow just Wow!

[Hanamizu]

 

These facts on an hourly basis?

 

iu.jpeg

 

I do like my Connaisseur stub a lot, though I opted for basic black. Thank goodness it's not colored with ivory lacquer!

 

For some reason the picture reminds me of the case in Bleak House.