Should I Return Or Keep My Pelikan M205?

[AMlines]

Hi,

 

I had got a Pelikan M205 (black with silver accents) from its authorised UK sellers. The pen is great but the nib was really scratchy. They sent me a replacement nib (free delivery) and I've now tried out this second nib.

 

I can immediately see that this writes much smoother than the last one. However, now the character has changed significantly - the previous nib's wetness was just right but the current one is too wet and makes the Visconti blue ink look more saturated.

 

There are still some tuning issue, I think. I find that crossing my t's produces a thinner line.

 

In all, it's considerably smoother over the first nib supplied, but I am still not satisfied with the nib performance. I have a Platinum F and gifted a Pilot Metropolitan M to a friend. Both give a consistent writing experience.

 

Other than the nib, I really like the pen, and do want to keep it for the long haul. What are my options?

 

1- Ask the seller to further tune this nib? This time they may well say that they've already done all they can.

 

2- Keep this second nib, and contact a store that will tune the nib for me?

 

3- Return the pen with both nibs, and look for other options. I might stick to a Japanese brand this time (e.g. Pilot).

 

Thanks for your comments!

[The Blue Knight]

I think the store has done a lot and to be honest certain pens are more persnickety than others and an M200 is one of them I'm guessing it's a finer. It's quite a well referenced problem.

 

If you like the pen find a nib meister and get it looked at or sell the pen if you don't want to. I think the store as gone above beyond and resolving differences in the way a pen writes compared to your existing ones. It sounds like more it's a difference in preference rather than a problem with the pen. At Least with my understanding in the UK most stores require there to be something functionally wrong with the pen to not be subject to a restocking fee and I do question weather it's more to do with personal preference rather then a problem with the pen.

[sansenri]

Your experience with Japanese pens has possibly spoilt you in terms of expectation from a fine nib.

Notoriously Japanese pens have thinner line nibs and since Japanese characters need such fine line, Japanese nib makers are renowned for offering fine and extra fine but smooth nibs.

An extra fine Pelikan M200 nib may feel scratchy to you and an M200 fine may feel too broad...

For a pen user like me that prefers an M nib over a fine, and often likes to use a broad nib, a Pelikan M200 M nib that tends to be a "large" M is really a wonderful nib (I love the springiness in M200 nibs, while Pilot/Platinum/Sailor nibs tend to be very stiff for me).

So unless you learn to like the broader character of M200 nibs you may really be better off sticking to Japanese brands for now.

If you like the nibs, Pilot and Sailor (in alternative to Platinum) make really nice pens.

That said, the M200/205 are great pens.

[Arkanabar]

I would have kept the first nib. In my experience, misalignment and scratchy tipping are easier to correct than excessive wetness, and Pelikan's M2xx series are excellent pens.

[A Smug Dill]

I don't know what the policies of the retailer from which you bought are specifically. In Australia, there is no general doctrine or legal principle that the consumer is entitled to either total satisfaction with a product or a full refund after returning a used product for what we would regard here as "change of mind", which is not a fault of the retailer or defect in the product. The Australian Consumer Law certainly does not provide for it, but many retailers are prepared to accept "change of mind" returns (but not necessarily issuing a full refund, as opposed to only giving store credit for the transaction value) by their published policies, without assuming any responsibility to "tune" or "repair" a product after a sale at their expense (in effort, if nothing else) to suit the purchaser's preferences.

 

So, just because you may think that "tuning" can alter the characteristics of the nib to suit your liking better, it doesn't mean there is a "tuning issue" with the nib as supplied.

 

As a devotee of Japanese "fine writing", with easily over fifty fountain pens in this household fitted with Sailor, Platinum and Pilot gold "Fine" (F, EF, MF, SF, SEF) nibs and dozens more steel-nibbed Japanese pens, I must say I'm quite happy with the performance of the Pelikan M20x (including both EF and F) steel nibs, and not because I'm looking for different writing outcomes from them in contrast to Japanese nibs. There's nothing inherently wrong with them, and I'm surprised by how fine a line I can get out of them.

 

However, if you just don't like how your ink of choice looks on the page coming out of your Pelikan pen with your handwriting, and the store is prepared to accept a "change of mind" return and give you a full refund, then there's nothing wrong with just concluding that Pelikan isn't suited to you, return it and then limit your search space for purchases in the future, instead of expecting to have it all in a Pelikan pen of which you happen to like the looks, form factor or balance. There are many other pens out there that look nice, feel good in the hand, etc. and you have plenty of time for trial-and-error to find one you can best live with, without expecting that the next purchase (or any of your next half a dozen) will tick all the boxes for you better than this Pelikan M205.

[Honeybadgers]

I find the M20x EF nib to be a good western EF, and my EF is tuned absolutely flawlessly, not too wet or dry.

 

Also, check your writing pressure, the m200 steel nib is INCREDIBLY soft for a steel nib, and you might just be pressing down too hard, particularly if you notice a cross stroke provides a drier line.

 

If all steel nibs were as soft and gave as much character to writing as the M20x, I'd probably never buy another gold nib. As much as I dislike the fact that my demonstrater m205 scratches and stains, I use it all the time because the nib just has tons and tons of personality, particularly when I'm writing with a heavier hand.

 

Also, try a different ink. Visconti blue is well behaved, but some inks just do not work with some pens for reasons that just don't make a whole lot of sense.

Edited October 17, 2019 by Honeybadgers

[Bo Bo Olson]

The Pelikan 200's springy regular flex nib, is 1/2 a width narrower than the modern 400/600/800&1000 nib. It is the same width at the vintage and semi-vintage '82-97 nibs.

 

Euro nibs are designed for flowing cursive writing....Japanese for a tiny printed script.

If you print, go Japanese....the nib is designed for printing.

 

For Euro nibs, the 200 is true to size,*** not fat and blobby. It has the classic teardrop tipping, so gives a nice clean line, like the vintage and semi-vintage Pelikans.

 

***Even Japanese nibs are subject to tolerance.....where a Skinny M could be the exact same size as a Fat F. 1/1000th inch inside of the tolerance border can't be told from that companies standard.

Often I think to get a nib in the middle of tolerance is rare and one is lucky.....and you do have to remember all companies have their very own standard.

The 1.0 nib will be 1.1 or 0.9 ...or more or less, just as easy as a B nib being skinny or fat. The number nibs are good marketing, but don't mean much.

 

There was a very good reason....back in the day of One Man, One Pen, bought new every 7-10 years, why Parker made a fat nib, and Shaffer made a skinny nib.

When the trained pen salesman, would steer the customer to his brand....by praising the wider Parker nib or the skinny Sheaffer nib.....depending on what his current pen was.

Back when radio was new, the pen companies did market surveys, to find out what width nibs their customers liked.

 

Had Parker made a skinny nib like Shaffer....their brand loyal customer could have made a horrible mistake....and bought a Shaffer. Instead of the proper 'thicker' writing Parker. (Proper thin writing Shaffer.)

 

Thinking robots will make the nibs exact is a fallacy, Lamy steel nibs are robot made and still have size variation. A nib will always be @ a size.....super skinny, skinny, thin, middling, wide and very wide, with overlap in the companies. There is that in Japan too.

 

Do you have a 10X loupe....in good glass, or the fake equivalent 40X Chinese loupe? Which is good enough....though a good glass loupe for @ $35 is a once in a life time buy....the cheap Chinese 40X=10X will have to be bought more often.....the glass is much better in a Belomo, than in Chinese.

You will need one, just like one needs a rubber bulb syringe and a needle syringe.

 

Scratchy ...95% of scratchy is either a misaligned tine, takes a minute to align, or holding your fountain pen before the big index knuckle like a ball point.....instead of behind the big index knuckle like a fountain pen.

You can misalign a nib yourself by a casual bang on the desk....tossing it on the bottom of a kick around book bag.

First time....after doing your reading on how....and you do need the loupe, is a bit , after the third time..... no big deal. I am talking about a decade of buying used pens, some shipped in a plain envelope. Whip out the loupe see which tine is up, from the breather hole press down to under the down loupe for about 2 seconds, loupe it again. Normally it's aligned after the third pressing.

 

Pens are mailed in display boxes, not real good packing, considering how packages are thrown or kicked around by robot or sportly postal workers. Folks that buy at a B&M never have that problem, in the the B&M's get their pens in a small wrapped pallet.

 

The only safe from postal service pens come from Goulet(sp), he packs, and wraps, so good and thick you could get mail delivery from a low flying airplane and the package would take the drop and bounce.

[carlos.q]

Also, try a different ink. Visconti blue is well behaved, but some inks just do not work with some pens for reasons that just don't make a whole lot of sense.

 

This...

 

You would be surprised how a different ink will change a nib's performance.

[A Smug Dill]

You would be surprised how a different ink will change a nib's performance.

 

One ceases to be surprised after seeing that happen more than a few times.

 

There's no problem, however, if a fountain pen user decides to be ink-centric, and revolves his choice of pen around how a particular ink comes out of it, and only using (or even buying) whichever pens and/or nibs that ink demands, not worry about the aesthetics and/or value-for-money of those pens themselves because the outcome on the page takes priority. It isn't the nibs' "issue" or the ink's "problem" if whether they come together and work perfectly when partnered with each other.

Edited October 17, 2019 by A Smug Dill

[sirgilbert357]

I would have kept the first nib. In my experience, misalignment and scratchy tipping are easier to correct than excessive wetness, and Pelikan's M2xx series are excellent pens.

 

 

+1.

 

A "too wet" nib can be harder to fix than almost any other issue. I'd return the "too wet" one and get the other one smoothed out. Me and micro mesh have an ongoing relationship and it's never let me down.

[sirgilbert357]

 

 

One ceases to be surprise after seeing that happen more than a few times.

 

There's no problem, however, if a fountain pen user decides to be ink-centric, and revolves his choice of pen around how a particular ink comes out of it, and only using (or even buying) whichever pens and/or nibs that ink demands, not worry about the aesthetics and/or value-for-money of those pens themselves because the outcome on the page takes priority. It isn't the nibs' "issue" or the ink's "problem" if they come together and work perfectly when partnered with each other.

 

+1 to this too.

 

I'm one of those "dedicate a single ink to a certain pen" kind of guys and I tune each nib to the ink I decide upon. Its easy to make a dry ink write a bit wetter in a dry pen even without tuning the nib (dip a toothpick in Dawn and dip that into the ink), but I've yet to find a suitable way to make a wet ink write dry without tuning the pen...

[sirgilbert357]

 

If all steel nibs were as soft and gave as much character to writing as the M20x, I'd probably never buy another gold nib.

 

 

Heh, in the same vein, I wish Pelikan would produce a steel nibbed M800 size version of the M200. I highly doubt they would ever do such a thing, and I respect their decision for not wanting to as it could impact business and sales in unfavorable ways, but that doesn't stop me from wanting it. I love the M200's nib, but the pen itself is just too small for me.

[senzen]

Sounds like the vendor has done all they could, the experience with the second nib is not a fault but is about your expectations... Still, if unhappy and you can return it (not exchange it), do so. I am on my fourth Pelikan, all my three steel nibs perform great; ink can behave differently, an extreme case is Hisoku, which seems to require some time to settle in the pen; but it's still about my expectations and the ink, not the nib or pen...

 

So a little patience goes a long way, I would expect good vendors to exchange nibs (normal vendors would probably just be perpexled even by this), I don't think any vendors manipulate nibs.

[senzen]

 

 

Heh, in the same vein, I wish Pelikan would produce a steel nibbed M800 size version of the M200. I highly doubt they would ever do such a thing, and I respect their decision for not wanting to as it could impact business and sales in unfavorable ways, but that doesn't stop me from wanting it. I love the M200's nib, but the pen itself is just too small for me.

 

Hear hear! I would even be ecstatic with an m600 size, no frills, steel nib pen... Not going to happen but it's a nice dream. In the meantime my money's going to Waterman Carènes...

[AMlines]

I think the store has done a lot and to be honest certain pens are more persnickety than others and an M200 is one of them I'm guessing it's a finer. It's quite a well referenced problem.

I didn't realise that. Yes, this is a fine nib. Can you point me to some of these "well referenced" issues? Thanks.

 

If you like the pen find a nib meister and get it looked at or sell the pen if you don't want to. I think the store as gone above beyond and resolving differences in the way a pen writes compared to your existing ones. It sounds like more it's a difference in preference rather than a problem with the pen. At Least with my understanding in the UK most stores require there to be something functionally wrong with the pen to not be subject to a restocking fee and I do question weather it's more to do with personal preference rather then a problem with the pen.

Definitely nothing functionally wrong with the second nib, though the first could qualify for that.

I quite like the pen and feel like keeping it. Can you point me to a nib meister here in the US? It would be great if I could send the nib to them and have it tailored to my tastes.

[AMlines]

I would have kept the first nib. In my experience, misalignment and scratchy tipping are easier to correct than excessive wetness, and Pelikan's M2xx series are excellent pens.

I am still to return the first nib. Why do you say wetter nibs are difficult to correct?

If so, I might as well keep the first nib and have it tuned by a nib-meister as others suggest.

[AMlines]

many retailers are prepared to accept "change of mind" returns (but not necessarily issuing a full refund, as opposed to only giving store credit for the transaction value) by their published policies,

That is the last resort. I quite like the writing experience of the pen. If I want to return the pen I will see what the seller has to say and take it from there.

 

So, just because you may think that "tuning" can alter the characteristics of the nib to suit your liking better, it doesn't mean there is a "tuning issue" with the nib as supplied.

I am no expert. But it was clear that the original nib was way too scratchy. The second nib (with the same specs), while smooth, now puts a much wetter line, saturates the ink (same as the one with the first nib) excessively, and when crossing t's feels scratchy and puts a thinner line. That's why I thought this could still be a tuning issue.

However, seeing others comments here about wetter nibs being difficult to "correct," I am now thinking I might as well stick to the first nib, and get it tuned from a nib-meister.

However, if you just don't like how your ink of choice looks on the page coming out of your Pelikan pen with your handwriting,

The ink is the same, but looks different between the first and second nibs, even though they have the same specs.

and the store is prepared to accept a "change of mind" return and give you a full refund, then there's nothing wrong with just concluding that Pelikan isn't suited to you,

Actually, I really like the pen. In terms of the feel and writing experience it is far superior to my Plaisir. I prefer the girth and could write with it all day. I will try and get similar sized pens in the future, even if they they are eastern brands.

[AMlines]

I find the M20x EF nib to be a good western EF, and my EF is tuned absolutely flawlessly, not too wet or dry.

Good to hear that. All I can say is there is a visible difference between the two sample nibs I have. The second nib which I find wetter should be fine, but it's much more so than the first one.

Also, check your writing pressure, the m200 steel nib is INCREDIBLY soft for a steel nib, and you might just be pressing down too hard, particularly if you notice a cross stroke provides a drier line.

Thanks for the tip. Actually, I never press down on a pen - whether a fountain, gel or other. I have always written with an even and soft pressure on the nib.

If all steel nibs were as soft and gave as much character to writing as the M20x, I'd probably never buy another gold nib.

You're making me envious. Like I said in the other comment, I really like the writing experience with this pen, and see myself write for hours with it. Which is why the nib issue is frustrating for an amateur like me.

As much as I dislike the fact that my demonstrater m205 scratches and stains, I use it all the time because the nib just has tons and tons of personality, particularly when I'm writing with a heavier hand.

I gathered from the others comments that the nib has more springiness than eastern brands. I hadn't really felt this until I saw these comments and then realised that the Plaisir F nib does feel much harder than the M205. While I don't press hard, I do agree that the latter makes for more character.

Also, try a different ink. Visconti blue is well behaved, but some inks just do not work with some pens for reasons that just don't make a whole lot of sense.

I could try that. Except, the issue is that two nibs of the same specs are behaving differently with the same nib. So, it is likely not an issue with the nib then.

[AMlines]

Euro nibs are designed for flowing cursive writing....Japanese for a tiny printed script.

If you print, go Japanese....the nib is designed for printing.

This makes me feel I should stick it out with either of these nibs

The issues notwithstanding I do see how the nib has more character than the Plaisir Fine.

Do you have a 10X loupe....in good glass, or the fake equivalent 40X Chinese loupe?

Unfortunately, no. I had thought of getting one, but then felt I wanted a pen that just writes well, without having to worry about tuning etc. on my own.

However, I would appreciate if you could point me to a pen-meister who I may send the nib to for tuning?

Scratchy ...95% of scratchy is either a misaligned tine, takes a minute to align, or holding your fountain pen before the big index knuckle like a ball point.....instead of behind the big index knuckle like a fountain pen.

You can misalign a nib yourself by a casual bang on the desk....tossing it on the bottom of a kick around book bag.

First time....after doing your reading on how....and you do need the loupe, is a bit , after the third time..... no big deal. I am talking about a decade of buying used pens, some shipped in a plain envelope. Whip out the loupe see which tine is up, from the breather hole press down to under the down loupe for about 2 seconds, loupe it again. Normally it's aligned after the third pressing.

Thanks. I should be able to do this if I get to it. I can intuitively sense that the issue with the first nib has to do with the tines.

e.g. even without a loupe I can see that the left tine is a bent a bit downwards (when the pen is held horizontally with the face of the nib facing upwards) so that it doesn't properly make the teardrop shape.

The second nib is fine, except it has the other issues.

[AMlines]

Euro nibs are designed for flowing cursive writing....Japanese for a tiny printed script.

If you print, go Japanese....the nib is designed for printing.

This makes me feel I should stick it out with either of these nibs

The issues notwithstanding I do see how the nib has more character than the Plaisir Fine.

Do you have a 10X loupe....in good glass, or the fake equivalent 40X Chinese loupe?

Unfortunately, no. I had thought of getting one, but then felt I wanted a pen that just writes well, without having to worry about tuning etc. on my own.

However, I would appreciate if you could point me to a pen-meister who I may send the nib to for tuning?

Scratchy ...95% of scratchy is either a misaligned tine, takes a minute to align, or holding your fountain pen before the big index knuckle like a ball point.....instead of behind the big index knuckle like a fountain pen.

You can misalign a nib yourself by a casual bang on the desk....tossing it on the bottom of a kick around book bag.

First time....after doing your reading on how....and you do need the loupe, is a bit , after the third time..... no big deal. I am talking about a decade of buying used pens, some shipped in a plain envelope. Whip out the loupe see which tine is up, from the breather hole press down to under the down loupe for about 2 seconds, loupe it again. Normally it's aligned after the third pressing.

Thanks. I should be able to do this if I get to it. I can intuitively sense that the issue with the first nib has to do with the tines.

e.g. even without a loupe I can see that the left tine is a bent a bit downwards (when the pen is held horizontally with the face of the nib facing upwards) so that it doesn't properly make the teardrop shape.

The second nib is fine, except it has the other issues.