Which Of The Two Would Be The Wisest Choice?

[fpupulin]

My wife, who is in Germany for studies, has found an old stationery shop that sells some nice Pelikan pens and thought she could buy one to give me a gift.

In particular, she really enjoyed two models (each of them very beautiful), of which she sent me a photograph and which I was able to identify on the Internet.

The first is an M450 in tortoiseshell and gold, from what I understood produced some fifteen years ago. It is a pen that seems small to me, but very elegant, and I have read that the acrylic body is semi-transparent to see the ink level.

photo © by mbacas

 

The second is a M800 Renaissance Bown Special Edition, I believe a newer and surely larger model.

 

 

 

Since I am completely inexperienced as to the Pelikan brand pens, I turn to the forum users to ask for an opinion on which, between the two pens (which my wife tells me have a very similar price), would represent a better purchase from the point of view of the brand "history" and values.

As a pen aficionado, I use a great variety of pens and nibs, both for writing and for drawing, and I do not know the gradation of the nib of the two pens in question I would add that most of my pens are large, but I also have - and I use with great pleasure - small and medium sized pens.

Thanks in advance for your advice.

 

[PAKMAN]

The 800 is larger. Both are beautiful, personally I love the Renaissance Brown and would opt for it! Lucky man either way!

[Bo Bo Olson]

Both the 400 (450) and 600 are very well balanced light and nimble pens. The 600 is thicker girthed than the 400....and longer being medium long, to the 450's standard size.

 

Actually the standard sized 400----450 is not small if posted. If posted it is longer than a (imo) ill balanced 800)

In you seem scared of Standard sized pens.......go with the medium-large 600 with the wider girth.

 

By the way both them pens....are

 

I don't know the date of the 450....but if only 15 years old is modern with the fat and blobby modern semi-nail nib like the 600's nib. If it's from pre'98...then it could have a very nice springy tear dropped shaped nib tipping that is @ 1/2 a width narrower than modern.

 

What big huge pens do you use now.......???

 

Of course I grew up..(in B&W TV days) when fountain pens were still well in use and some folks still wrote all day long so Standard and Medium-Large pens were in.....in they were balanced, light and nimble. A pen that wasn't balanced didn't sell.

 

Two generations later after the near death of fountain pens....Big was Bling so that is what many of the 'youth' are use too.Show off at the conference table....write only a signature.

 

I can't grumble too much, in with out Big Bling pens, there would be few to no fountain pens today.

 

I do have a 1005, which being longer is imo better balanced than an 800.(of course one don't post either of them.)

Edited October 11, 2019 by Bo Bo Olson

[fpupulin]

 

Of course I grew up..(in B&W TV days) when fountain pens were still well in use and some folks still wrote all day long so Standard and Medium-Large pens were in.....in they balanced light and nimble.

 

 

Bo Bo, thanks for your reply. I also grew up writing with fountain pens, and our pens at school were quite small. Actually, I remember that many of our pens were Pelikan, though I do not remember which models. I wrote, and I write daily, with any kind of fountain pen size. When I was 19 years old, I saved from my student lunch for one year to buy a Montblanc 149. It was intended (in my head and my hearth) for sketching... Since then, I mostly gravitated around large pens, but I have and I like also a lot of smaller models, i.e., small Omas pens - lady size - with beautifully flexible nibs. I am using my pens, all of them, though not all at the same time, on a daily basis.

[alfredop]

I think that the M450 is more desirable also in terms of rarity. On the other hand, as I remember, you like large pens, and from this point of view the M800 is closer to your Montegrappa.

 

Ciao

Alfredo

[Carrau]

Are these new pens or used? What size nibs? If new, Pelikan may exchange the nib in the first 4 weeks I believe, if its performance or size is not to your liking. If either is used, then the nib size and how well it writes might be a consideration in your choice, as it will cost you money to replace or have adjusted if that becomes necessary. Whichever you choose, you might ask if she can write with them in the store, or have the clerk write with them in front of her to see if there are any nib problems, given the issues raised in numerous threads here regarding modern Pelikan nibs. Some concerns would be hard starts or skipping which should be easy to see even if the clerk is writing. The M 800 is about the size of a Lamy Safari/AlStar in girth, and heavier. I have a vintage Pelikan 400, which is substantially shorter and lighter than the modern 800, as well as narrower. It is about the same as a Jinhao 992 in width, but shorter, and is both shorter and narrower than my Parker 51 and the 51 knockoff Wing Sung 601. I’m not sure if modern M4xx are significantly different in size from the vintage 400.

[sirgilbert357]

I think you need to take everyone's "advice" (bias/opinion in reality) with a grain of salt, though. If you really are comfortable using pens that range from the M400 size up to the M800 size (and weight isn't a concern), and you don't know the nib sizes, then all you are really left with is subjective criteria. So just get whichever one you like the looks of best.

 

I voted with my wallet and got the Renaissance Brown. I love it. Its a limited edition and discontinued, in case that matters or factors into the choice for you.

[dennis_f]

The wisest choice would be to buy the 800 and then to have your wife send me the address of the pen shop so that I could take that far less attractive 450 off of their hands.

 

Just joking of course.

 

The 450 is a truly lovely pen, and very rare. I've come across it twice IRL, and the mbacas photo you've posted describes the pen very precisely. The 450 is very small - both short and slender -- and compared to many of the other pens you've posted in previous threads, you may find it surprisingly tiny. You will probably have to use it posted, and the gold cap does have a tendency to knock it off balance. The 800 -- also a stunning pen, and also rare -- is more in line with the size and heft of many of the pens you've posted previously. In terms of colour and material, it will probably match your collection more closely than the 450.

 

D.

Edited October 11, 2019 by dennis_f

[BillH]

The M800 Ren Brown is still pretty easy to come by, so I would opt for the M450... it is such a great looking pen, and as others have said, much harder to find.

 

Careful though, getting your first Pelikan Tortoise you run the risk of getting "tortoise fever"

[Freddy]

Both are lovely pens....Having both series..and speaking subjectively.....

SE M800 vs M450 with vermeil cap.....I would opt for the M450...

Hope this may be of some help....

Fred

[Ron Z]

Which one reflects the brand history? The 450. Some of the classic Pelikans had the metal caps. It IS a classic design.

 

Though I find the 800 size pens to be more comfortable in my hand, if I had the choice I'd grab the 450 while I had the opportunity, and put the 800 on my wish list because it's likely to be available later.

[fpupulin]

Dear pals, thank you a lot for taking the time to post your well informed suggestions, coming from different and interesting perspectives. It is a slow learning curve, but I am learning...

[Lam1]

If it were me, m450 in a heartbeat.

IMO, it is probably the most beautiful pelikan in many years, and I agree with Ron about the metal caps.

It is long out of production. If I am not mistaken, it is a two chick nib, which means more character and more desirable.

It is also a very hard pen to get. Ive been looking for one for a few years now. I found one at the 2018 DC pen show, but the seller was asking $1350 for it!!

 

The Renaissance Brown, on the other hand, is very easy to obtain.

Edited October 11, 2019 by Lam1

[jochums]

M450. Not even close.

[Ron Z]

I find that sometimes the extra weight of a pen makes up for the difference in size. The metal cap and grip knob would make the pen a tad heavier than an all plastic pen.

 

BTW, the ID of the 400 and 800 are the same because they have the same inside diameter, and use the same seals. Even though the 800 may be a little longer, there wouldn't be much difference in ink capacity.

[langere]

450, 450, 450!

 

What a wonderful wife you have!

 

Erick

[Driften]

the 450 is more rare and thus I would go for it.....

[sargetalon]

It’s all subjective of course but in this match up, the M450 reigns supreme. The color and style are hard to beat. Also, it’s much harder to come by.

[Seney724]

Another vote for the 450.

I have one, and I love it!

Far more beautiful in person and, yes, "transparent" enough to easily discern the ink level.

 

By the way, I, too, prefer larger pens. But this one's size is fine.

You'll not regret it. But, in the off chance you do, there will always be M800 Renaissance Brown pens for sale.

 

If you go the other way (take the M800 Renaissance Brown) and regret it, you may be looking for quite a while to acquire a 450 in as nice a condition as this one seems to be.

 

Good luck, let us know!

 

And kudos to you for marrying such a special woman!!

[chravagni]

450! It is a beauty.

I have got one, and the nib is not blobby fat. It is an M who writes like an m200 F, thin and springy Probably the old style nib, then.