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Black Ink/pen Dilemma!

dilemmaquestions black ink fitting pens

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36 replies to this topic

#21 Sailor Kenshin

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Posted 02 October 2019 - 20:46

Rhodia is a smooth paper, if you want a smoother and less scratchy experience my doubt is you may be using equipment that cannot provide what you want, and my suggestion is you try a medium or a broad nib (you don't say that it must be an F or EF), or, a better F / EF nib (perhaps a Montblanc or an Aurora, or even a Lamy 2000 F which is already very smooth without going into more expensive pens). You don't seem to mention a budget, at any rate.
The Sailor you mention should be smooth though...


Budget is zero.

No purchases will be made. This list is what is already on my desk, so to speak.

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#22 Honeybadgers

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Posted 02 October 2019 - 21:18

If you're using cheap paper, my two recommendations for ink aren't on your list. Pelikan 4001 black and noodlers X feather.


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#23 sansenri

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Posted 02 October 2019 - 22:26

Budget is zero.

No purchases will be made. This list is what is already on my desk, so to speak.

well then, you just need to test them...

besides the Sailor though I'm expecting you won't have that dramatically smoother feeling just playing to match inks

in the end, you may have to start a quest for a smoother nib...

 

on the cheap nibs, a different alternative could be... micromesh


Edited by sansenri, 02 October 2019 - 22:28.


#24 A Smug Dill

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Posted 03 October 2019 - 00:48

I'm seeking a silky-smooth writing experience; _...‹snip›...
Any thoughts? Experiences with any of the above in combination? Recommendations?

Oh...and I am NOT buying any more black ink, not even carts or samples. Thanks for reading this overlong, overfussy post! B)

This list is what is already on my desk, so to speak.

well then, you just need to test them…


I couldn't agree more with sansenri on this. Instead of making time to write the "overlong, overfussy post" and then reading and replying to others' suggestions, you could just spend hours or even days of comprehensive testing of whatever combinations you can (or are willing to) put together with what you have, experiment to your heart's content, then choose what you find to be the best subjective experience closest to what you seek (or imagined).

on the cheap nibs, a different alternative could be... micromesh


On any nib. I wouldn't automatically discount the possibility that someone who puts the writing experience first is prepared to irreversibly modify (or "customise") a nib he/she already owns, in order to achieve what he/she feels the experience ought to be with a good (and, in all likelihood, relatively more expensive) pen. Risk (in the dimension of consequence/impact) of greater "loss" if the price of a nib was higher to begin with has nothing to do with the writing experience sought.

As always:  1. Implicit in everything and every instance I write on FPN is the invitation for you to judge me as a peer in the community. I think it's only due respect to take each other's written word in online discussion seriously and apply critical judgment.  2. I do not presume to judge for you what is right, correct or valid. If I make a claim, or refute a statement in a thread, and link to references and other information in support, I beseech you to review and consider those, and judge for yourself. I may be wrong. My position or say-so carries no more weight than anyone else's here, and external parties can speak for themselves with what they have published.  3. I endeavour to be frank and truthful in what I write, show or otherwise present when I relate my first-hand experiences that are not independently verifiable. If it is something you can test for yourself and see the results, I entreat you to do so.


#25 Sailor Kenshin

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Posted 03 October 2019 - 12:38

Sure. But that's just me.

#26 sirgilbert357

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Posted 03 October 2019 - 13:38

On any nib. I wouldn't automatically discount the possibility that someone who puts the writing experience first is prepared to irreversibly modify (or "customise") a nib he/she already owns, in order to achieve what he/she feels the experience ought to be with a good (and, in all likelihood, relatively more expensive) pen. Risk (in the dimension of consequence/impact) of greater "loss" if the price of a nib was higher to begin with has nothing to do with the writing experience sought.

 

 

Agreed. When I took delivery of my very first M800 sized Pelikan, a Renaissance Brown, it got a micro mesh treatment probably within 5 mins of being inked, LOL. I was no stranger to Pelikans and despite it being the most expensive pen I had ever bought, I knew what had to be done if I wanted it to write to my preferences.

 

People act like micro mesh is a power tool or something. If you're scared of it, just take it slow. My strategies:

 

-Use lighter pressure than when you write and make sure the pen is inked.

-If only slight improvement is being sought, do ONE figure eight with light pressure and then test the nib.

 

You can also "practice" by smoothing the reverse tip of your nib first. That will give you a feel for the progress without actually impacting the way the nib will write when used in the correct orientation. Or practice on a Jinhao or something. It's really not difficult to get a feel for how to smooth a nib...


Edited by sirgilbert357, 03 October 2019 - 14:22.


#27 Mech-for-i

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Posted 03 October 2019 - 14:22

concur with the above, if your budget is zero and are aiming to best the result out of the list, then you do not need our suggestion what you need is to experiment ; pen by pen, ink by ink, and with all kind of paper ... seriously though you are talking F, XF , they just will not be smooth by any measure when we compare like of like vs say M , B ... its pure physics at work ..



#28 Sailor Kenshin

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Posted 03 October 2019 - 15:21

concur with the above, if your budget is zero and are aiming to best the result out of the list, then you do not need our suggestion what you need is to experiment ; pen by pen, ink by ink, and with all kind of paper ... seriously though you are talking F, XF , they just will not be smooth by any measure when we compare like of like vs say M , B ... its pure physics at work ..


But I like your suggestions! Especially when they arise from personal experience.

#29 Bo Bo Olson

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Posted 03 October 2019 - 15:48

Ol'Grizz a passed beloved poster/repair man said, figure 8's can cause baby bottom, so I stopped using that.

.....when smoothing an old draggy vintage pen....draggy because of 'iridium-micro-corrosion' or 'iridium rust."  I only smoothed to good and smooth, where there is still a touch of paper feel.........

I seldom use my 4-5 butter smooth pens. :rolleyes: I prefer the 'good and smooth' of a non blobby 200's nib as it comes out of the box. Others need liquid butter. ............some folks even like toothy, the feel of writing with a pencil.

 

There is lapping paper that is much smoother than micro-mesh so is not so damaging. I'd think that would do more 'good' on a new Pelikan butter smooth 400/600/800 & 1000 nib.

 

In 'noobie's hands micro-mesh is a power tool. There are hundreds of signed testimonies here on the com that it is. When they learn what is gone is gone.....unless they want to pay $90 or plus for a new tipping.


German vintage '50-70 semi-flex stubs and those in oblique give the real thing in On Demand line variation. Modern Oblique is a waste of money for a shadow of line variation. Being too lazy to Hunt for affordable vintage oblique pens, lets you 'hunt' for line variation instead of having it.

www.nibs.com/blog/nibster-writes/nibs-germany & https://www.peter-bo...cts/nib-systems,

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 


#30 Honeybadgers

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Posted 03 October 2019 - 21:57

One of the best ways I've found to get rid of "bite" that a lot of people hate is to take some 1 micron mylar paper and drag it down the slit at the tipping 4-8 times being very careful not to round over the inside edge. Oftentimes a lot of polishing work can create a burr on the inside edge of the tines that, no matter how smooth the nib is, unless they ground it into baby's bottom, they'll always be on the burr. I just had to do it with my 3776 MS, which had an unpleasant little bit of scratch after I crisped it up into a cursive italic.


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#31 wallylynn

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Posted 05 October 2019 - 02:33

My hero 616 isn't very smooth. I attribute that to it being a dry and fine pen. I'm using my creaper and comparatively feels like gliding on ice, but it's also a soft wet medium. Nothing wrong or trouble with the hero, just different.

#32 Sailor Kenshin

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Posted 05 October 2019 - 14:19

I'm going to mosey on down to the Black Ink thread for a look.

#33 Honeybadgers

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Posted 06 October 2019 - 08:23

Honestly, the more black inks I get, the more I find myself gravitating towards two.

 

If I'm going to be writing on a lot of cheap paper (i.e. at work, on medical documents) I am finding pelikan 4001 black to be almost as good, if not maybe even a little better, than noodlers X-feather (x feather is a little darker, more permanent and water resistant though) and if I'm writing on good paper, it's noodlers dark matter all the way for the hyper wet, well behaved blackness.


Selling a boatload of restored, fairly rare, vintage Japanese gold nib pens, click here to see (more added as I finish restoring them)


#34 sandy101

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Posted 06 October 2019 - 10:23

Honestly, the more black inks I get, the more I find myself gravitating towards two.

 

If I'm going to be writing on a lot of cheap paper (i.e. at work, on medical documents) I am finding pelikan 4001 black to be almost as good, if not maybe even a little better, than noodlers X-feather (x feather is a little darker, more permanent and water resistant though) and if I'm writing on good paper, it's noodlers dark matter all the way for the hyper wet, well behaved blackness.

 

I've found that Platinum Black, Parker Quink, Montblanc black and Pelikan's Brilliant Black work very well on cheap paper. I can safely use these four in my old Moleskine journals without issue. So, I have one of these four in my EDC.



#35 Sailor Kenshin

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Posted 06 October 2019 - 14:21

Thanks! I do have all those inks.

#36 5Cavaliers

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Posted 09 October 2019 - 18:08

I recently tried my Nemosine Fusion F with Monteverde Black Ash - awful no matter what the paper.  While I like some of the Monteverde inks, I do not care for Black Ash.  Also my Nemosine Fusion is a bit on the dry side.  Hope that helps and don't let some of the comments discourage you.   


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#37 Sailor Kenshin

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Posted 09 October 2019 - 18:22

I recently tried my Nemosine Fusion F with Monteverde Black Ash - awful no matter what the paper.  While I like some of the Monteverde inks, I do not care for Black Ash.  Also my Nemosine Fusion is a bit on the dry side.  Hope that helps and don't let some of the comments discourage you.



I know ex act ly what you mean! ;)

I also had the Black Ash in a Jinhao Shark....cleaned it out after a day. I know I've had Black Ash in some pen or other before, and it worked well.

The Sailor Sapporo and black cart is growing on me. But my favorite so far is the Plaisir with Platinum Black. Okay, the Lamy Safari/Lamy Black combo's not bad either.





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