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Nakaya Info Kuro Tamenuri Finish

nakaya kuro tamenuri kuro-tamenuri finish aging wear worn portable writer

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13 replies to this topic

#1 NowAndZen

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Posted 01 October 2019 - 06:24

I am right now in the market for a Nakaya pen. Specifically the portable writer and I want to get some more information about the finish of the pen before I feel comfortable buying it. The main question I have is really about how the finish looks in person compared to some photos I've seen of it. In some photos it looks really wonderful and black with bright red accents. However sometimes it looks like more of a reddish brown throughout. I was wondering what exactly everyone thought about this finish and how it looks. Pictures would really be helpful. The second thing I want to know is how exactly this ages over time. It says the Kuro Tamenuri finish changes and becomes more colorful over time where the black is worn away and the red becomes more prominent. How much does it change exactly and is it going to wear more where my hands touch? Will I get a strange finger shaped red circles on the grip where I touch it? Again thanks for any and all information!

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#2 NowAndZen

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Posted 01 October 2019 - 06:28

fpn_1359311618__nakaya_3.jpgaf14a6fa178a5b3883712dfef3a79420.jpg

 

Here are two examples of what I'm talking about, I really like how the first one looks but the second one is a little brown and muddy in my opinion. For those of you who own a Nakaya Kuro Tamenuri which looks more accurate to you?



#3 jar

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Posted 01 October 2019 - 12:36

It will vary from pen to pen and craftsman to craftsman.  Every batch of urushi will be slightly different in color and over time the undercoating will shine through the overcoating as the overcoating ages and becomes increasingly transparent. Then there is also the lighting effect, the very same pens will look entirely different in direct sunlight or shade or inside lighting.

 

Shade:

standard.jpg

 

Direct sun:

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#4 whichwatch

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Posted 01 October 2019 - 14:26

I am right now in the market for a Nakaya pen. Specifically the portable writer and I want to get some more information about the finish of the pen before I feel comfortable buying it. The main question I have is really about how the finish looks in person compared to some photos I've seen of it. In some photos it looks really wonderful and black with bright red accents. However sometimes it looks like more of a reddish brown throughout. I was wondering what exactly everyone thought about this finish and how it looks. Pictures would really be helpful. The second thing I want to know is how exactly this ages over time. It says the Kuro Tamenuri finish changes and becomes more colorful over time where the black is worn away and the red becomes more prominent. How much does it change exactly and is it going to wear more where my hands touch? Will I get a strange finger shaped red circles on the grip where I touch it? Again thanks for any and all information!

 

 

 

Below is a picture of Nakayas in Kuro Tamenuri.  As "Jar" has said, colors will vary from craftsman to craftsman and lot to lot.  The biggest difference in the pictures you posted is due to the lighting.

 

I don't find the red in Kuro Tamenuri to be bright red or brown.  I would describe the red as more burgundy or maroon tone.

 

While the black will fade a bit over time (many years), I don't think you will ever see red circles where your fingers touch, or anything close to that.  The affect is much more subtle.

 

Models in the picture below, left to right, are:  Dorsal Fin 2, Decapod Twist, Portable (with maki-e Lotus Blossom on section, and Desk Pen.  You can click on the picture to enlarge it.

 

If you can come to the Ohio Pen Show, you will be able to see these in person.

 

 

Kuro.jpg


Edited by whichwatch, 01 October 2019 - 14:28.


#5 empliau

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Posted 01 October 2019 - 14:51

I must say Kuro had never appealed to me, and then when I saw it in person I felt swept away.  In my opinion, it is much more beautiful in reality than in photographs.  I saw a couple at the LA pen show, and they were all blackish, not muddy brown, and the red stood out wonderfully.  But of course taste is an individual thing - to me tamenuri is always ever so much more so in person than in photos.



#6 NowAndZen

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Posted 01 October 2019 - 14:57

I must say Kuro had never appealed to me, and then when I saw it in person I felt swept away.  In my opinion, it is much more beautiful in reality than in photographs.  I saw a couple at the LA pen show, and they were all blackish, not muddy brown, and the red stood out wonderfully.  But of course taste is an individual thing - to me tamenuri is always ever so much more so in person than in photos.


Would you say they looked more like the first picture that I posted or the second picture? Just trying to guage which is more accurate. Also did they all look relatively the same? Thanks!

#7 empliau

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Posted 01 October 2019 - 16:42

Much, much more like the first.  I don't own a Kuro so I'm going by memory, but the pen depicted in the second photo would not have got a second glance from me.  Only the light is harsh in the first photo.  I remember the black as being black but warm, and the red a spectacular but not garish contrast.

 

John's photos at nibs dot come come very close to what I remember:

 

https://www.nibs.com...2-kuro-tamenuri

 

And they all seemed pretty similar.  i wanted them all!


Edited by empliau, 01 October 2019 - 16:42.


#8 jandrese

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Posted 02 October 2019 - 13:55

Would you say they looked more like the first picture that I posted or the second picture? Just trying to guage which is more accurate. Also did they all look relatively the same? Thanks!

 

As others have already pointed out there are a lot of variables at play here not to mention differences in how your monitor displays color. If possible, you need to see some in person. Try a pen show if you don't have a dealer where you can see urushi pens. Be careful what you wish for, however, you might become addicted!



#9 nekomuffchu

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Posted 02 October 2019 - 14:55

This is my Piccolo Long in Kuro Tamenuri. This color is strong yet elegant, and the tactile feel of the urushi finish is sublime.

 

mIYrcg.jpg


Edited by nekomuffchu, 02 October 2019 - 15:59.


#10 eciton

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Posted 02 October 2019 - 15:55

Mine is very dark, and the red quite punchy. Definitely not muddy, definitely not brown.



#11 MartinPauli

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Posted 03 October 2019 - 09:50

The term "Tame" refers to the final coat of urushi lacquer which normally is not polished

The correct name for this lacquer Family is "Nuritate" used on kitchen and table ware.

The result is not glossy but satin like.

 

What Japanese appreciate on nuritate is, that by using a "nuritate mono" the most touched areas will become glosssy with the time. For applying the last lacquer coat (Tame) the lacquer worker uses transparent urushi which has a honey color.

 

Every tree, every day in every region produces different quality of lacquer in consistence and color.

Therefore the classic Tame finish can vary strongly from one production line to the other.

 

"Kuro Tame" is the same process but the final layer is made with "Kuro" black "Roiro Urushi.

Here transparent urushi is blackened by adding Ferrous Sulfate and Sodium Hydroxide which produces a chemical reaction in Urushi to make it turning black.

 

In the old days iron filings were added to raw lacquer before refining but is today considered as weakening urushi properties



#12 ethernautrix

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Posted 03 October 2019 - 19:41

My kuro-tamenuri Desk Pen is very black with very red showing through, but I've had it for maybe ten years. I used it much more often back then, but then I changed notebook sizes, so my carry method no longer fit (a double Quiver, the Desk Pen in its silk pyjamas/nightgown). Now it's been living in the Pen Valise for several years with several brief forays on duty.

The kuro-tamenuri Piccolo that I lost was black, but the red wasn't so bright. I assumed that the red would become brighter with use. I'll never know.... (Sad face)

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#13 MartinPauli

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Posted 04 October 2019 - 11:15

The black and the transparent Tame gets definitely more transparent with the time. But nothing to do with using it or not. Light helps a little bit speeding up the process



#14 Siv

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Posted 07 October 2019 - 19:26

These are older pens so may not be fully representative of what you get now but the kuro-tamenuri looks very black to start with only a little red peeking through but the aka-tamenuri looks more brown.

 

4445969535_9848dbd425_z.jpg

4446794942_d434018a26_z.jpg

 

Looking at the photos posted earlier, if you didn't say they were kuro, I would have assumed they were aka.

 

One of my favourite pens is my kuro decapod twist - a beautiful shape that really highlights the urushi style.

 

8390302003_8cef04b542_z.jpg

8390302065_ff2b5e05b8_z.jpg


Edited by Siv, 07 October 2019 - 19:27.

Posted Image
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Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: nakaya, kuro, tamenuri, kuro-tamenuri, finish, aging, wear, worn, portable, writer



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