Pelikan M815 Help!

[TDOTDAN]

Was hoping to get some advice from a few Pelikan experts as Im a novice!

 

I just received a brand new M815 in the mail today... beautiful pen! However, it didnt write...at all!

 

I figured it needed a flush...so that what I did (with cold water)

 

That seemed to do the trick at first. After a few pages of relatively smooth writing, the pen started to hard start and skip like crazy. At times it wont write entire words!

 

Does this sound like a flow issue that might be solved by flushing the pen again...or am I dealing with a major issue? Im attaching a few pictures of the nib. It looks pretty good to me... but what do I know!

 

Have to say... this is pretty disappointing from a pen with a fairly high price tag!!

 

Any advice would be much appreciated!!

[Gobblecup]

What ink are you using? The tines look awfully tight to my preferences, however, it may also be a case of babys bottom on the tipping. Have you tried another ink?

Edited September 22, 2019 by Gobblecup

[TDOTDAN]

I’m using a Diamine turquoise ink that has behaved pretty well in other pens. Maybe I’ll try another ink to see if that’s the issue. I never even considered baby’s bottom...

 

Could the paper I’m using affect the pen’s performance? I was writing on Clairefontaine paper...which is pretty smooth. The pen performed a bit better when I wrote on some cheap copy paper.

[Gobblecup]

Sometimes it can be a combination of dry ink and slick paper and not the nib at all! Troubleshoot these lesser issues first, if they don't fix the problem move onto what might be at fault with the nib itself. Let us know how a different ink behaves on a different paper. I find that even some of my best pens and good inks complain on slicker papers.

[jaytaylor]

More likely one of three issues or a combination of them, common to modern ball nibs and particularly prevalent to contemporary Pelikan gold nibs.

 

1. Tine alignment.

2. Tines pressing tightly together at the tip.

3. Baby bottom (over polished and rounded on the inside of the tines.

 

Additionally a less common issue is one tine longer than the other.

 

The first two issues are a relatively easy fix but please check the tip with a loupe before, during and after any adjustments.

 

The later issues will require nib smoothing, effectively abrading the tip using extremely fine abrasive media.

 

An alternative of course is to return the pen or nib for an exchange or send the pen to a competent nib grinding guru who can also customise the nib within the limitations of the tipping material.

 

Good luck and I hope it works out, the M815 is a stunning pen.

Edited September 22, 2019 by jaytaylor

[Gobblecup]

I would disagree that babys bottom is a COMMON issue, I have bought many many Pelikan modern nibs and none have had issues out of the box. Were talking over two dozen. The only nib I had an issue with was a NOS M620 from 2003. To diagnose the problem as being a flaw with the nib is premature at best.

 

Additionally from the look of the pictures the tines look an even length and it is not a larger tipping. Larger tippings tend to suffer babys bottom more than M, F, and EF.

 

I am not ruling out babys bottom without a closer look at the tipping, but let 's do this without jumping to conclusions.

Edited September 22, 2019 by Gobblecup

[jaytaylor]

I would disagree that babys bottom is a COMMON issue, I have bought many many Pelikan modern nibs and none have had issues out of the box. Were talking over two dozen. The only nib I had an issue with was a NOS M620 from 2003. To diagnose the problem as being a flaw with the nib is premature at best.

 

Additionally from the look of the pictures the tines look an even length and it is not a larger tipping. Larger tippings tend to suffer babys bottom more than M, F, and EF.

 

I am not ruling out babys bottom without a closer look at the tipping, but let 's do this without jumping to conclusions.

 

You've had better luck than I. Relatively new to Pelikan and of my four contemporary nibs, purchased from different offical Pelikan dealers over 6 weeks, all have issues, some very serious.

 

M1005 ( B ) - Baby bottom, nib rippled along the length, crease in both tines, one tine heavy rounded at the top, one side of the slit at the top of the nib has been polished away leaving it rounded. One tine wider than the other. Superficial top grind cut far too deeply. This nib is the worst in terms of the condition and I will be posting further info on my previous thread.

 

M805 ( B ) - Badly skips and hard starts. Very heavily baby bottomed right around to the top of the nib, tines misaligned, one tine longer than the other, one tine wider than the other. Tips pressing tightly together. Stamping, breather hole and slit all off centre. Superficial top grind cut far too deeply and at an angle.

 

M815 (M) - Nib would not write at all, even when dipped. Very heavily baby bottomed right around to the of the nib, tines misaligned, one tine longer than the other, tips pressing tightly together. One tine wider than the other. Superficial top grind cut far too deeply and at an angle

 

M805 spare nib ( B ) - Skips and hard starts. Baby bottomed, tipping aggressively over polished leaving one tine wider than the other at the tip. Superficial top grind cut far too deeply and at an angle. This nib did however have no alignment issues and the slit gap is perfect.

 

Four out of four from different outlets, IMO this is indicative of an issue with modern Pelikan gold nibs.

Edited September 22, 2019 by jaytaylor

[Gobblecup]

jaytaylor,

 

First, I must say I am very sorry for your bad luck. I am sorry to know that you have experienced the worst of the worst in terms of nibs from Pelikan. I have never seen the tine length in a pen being uneven, nor the alignment of the cuts being off on any Pelikan nib. I would strongly suggest posting detailed pictures of these nibs and also sending a detailed email to Pelikan. They should at the very least replace your nibs, and then work to find out how these slipped through the cracks. Baby's bottom does seem to be an issue with almost all modern European nibs from time to time. Frankly, I have come to accept that when it does happen some careful smoothing and tuning can fix any of the issues (baby's bottom and misaligned tines) with a bit of practice. However, I can understand your frustration. That being said, a string of bad luck and a few dozen experiences doesn't make the experience actually COMMON. It does mean there is definite room for Pelikan to improve!!! But, there are literally tens of thousands of good modern Pelikan nibs out there for all the bad nibs I have heard reports of.

 

As for the OPs issue, the pictures are quite clear and there seem to be no such issues with misalignment, mishaped tines, or bad tipping. The only real issue I can see is that the tines look tight. Without a better magnification at several angles those statements are only a opinionated diagnosis, but 11 years of tinkering with nibs tells me that tine distance could be the most likely culprit outside of a bad ink and paper combination.

Edited September 22, 2019 by Gobblecup

[jaytaylor]

jaytaylor,

 

First, I must say I am very sorry for your bad luck. I am sorry to know that you have experienced the worst of the worst in terms of nibs from Pelikan. I have never seen the tine length in a pen being uneven, nor the alignment of the cuts being off on any Pelikan nib. I would strongly suggest posting detailed pictures of these nibs and also sending a detailed email to Pelikan. They should at the very least replace your nibs, and then work to find out how these slipped through the cracks. Baby's bottom does seem to be an issue with almost all modern European nibs from time to time. Frankly, I have come to accept that when it does happen some careful smoothing and tuning can fix any of the issues (baby's bottom and misaligned tines) with a bit of practice. However, I can understand your frustration. That being said, a string of bad luck and a few dozen experiences doesn't make the experience actually COMMON. It does mean there is definite room for Pelikan to improve!!! But, there are literally tens of thousands of good modern Pelikan nibs out there for all the bad nibs I have heard reports of.

 

As for the OPs issue, the pictures are quite clear and there seem to be no such issues with misalignment, mishaped tines, or bad tipping. The only real issue I can see is that the tines look tight. Without a better magnification at several angles those statements are only a opinionated diagnosis, but 11 years of tinkering with nibs tells me that tine distance could be the most likely culprit outside of a bad ink and paper combination.

 

 

A bit of a nib tinkerer myself, I have since ground the three M800 series nibs, two as CI and one a stub as too much tipping had been polished away to achieve the crisp writing edge/face. I also had to compromise on not having a top formal correct grind as there wasn't anything left to grind following the factory treatment, a very annoying issue.

 

I've been asked why I didn't return them in another thread, there are a few reasons, the logisitcs of distance and time, I'm in New Zealand and the outlets are UK and Germany.

I also happen to have fallen recently for the Pelikan aesthetic following my venture into vintage Pelikan and wanted to experience the contemporary pens, I didn't want the issue to continue (together with my frustration) with the potential months of waiting and wanted to get to using them asap. Also my intention was to grind them to CI, it was the condition of these nibs given the price point that surprised me.

 

I've been collecting for 15 years and have experience of most brands, Pelikan gold nibs have been on par with Jinhao steel thus far from my experience making Pelikan the worst nibs I've experienced on post $100 pens, even Visconti weren't this consistently bad.

 

Regarding the OPs M815, it needs a loupe examination which is why I made no conclusions. You can not determine misalignment or poorly shaped tipping from a top down photo. From the photo the left hand tip appears longer, not much in it but it does appear so from both photos. Probably not enough to be the cause of the poor performance.

 

I do agree however that the most likely cause is the slit gap at the tip.

 

Edited to add. The M1005 Stresemann nib or pen is going to be returned, I am not going to tolerate another sub-par nib from Pelikan.

 

(M1005) Photo shows the over polished, rounded baby bottom tip at the top of the nib to only one tine, it also shows the polished beveled edge of that same tine at the slit. These are only the minor issues with this nib.

 

Edited September 22, 2019 by jaytaylor

[LouisDaigle]

IMO ALL of these flaws should be reported quickly to those respectable companies. Is it that there is one employee that has lost his mind and started doing (bleep) work or is it bad training, bad quality check..? And you ended up buying this string of bad work? This hypothesis is just to show that we would be doing OURSELVES a great deal of a service by telling them instantly so they can correct the situation. And then if they don't act responsibly, then spread the word to the planet! ;-)

[nibtip]

I sadly have to fully agree with all your statements about Pelikan nibs. I have 3 M805 nibs ready to ship to Mr Masuyama as soon as he has time to regrind them.

[dbs]

I had the same problem, just received my m1005 F nib. It is too much ink (tine is away from feeder), one tine is way up due to slit is not cut to the center. See photos. Note yellow color is due to white balance.

 

Compare to Montblanc, Pelikan's service at US is near to non-exist. Hard to get a easy fix.

 

 

[MHBru]

Wow. I feel lucky. I have 5 modem Pelikans all purchase new w zero issues in any of them. Two M800s, an ocean swirl, a Ductus and an M205

Edited September 25, 2019 by MHBru

[Tom Kellie]

Wow. I feel lucky. I have 5 modem Pelikans all purchase new w zero issues in any of them. Two M800s, an ocean swirl, a Ductus and an M205

 

~ MHBru:

 

Likewise.

The four contemporary Pelikans which Fritz Schimpf has shipped to me have all been ideal writers from day one.

I wish that others might be similarly blessed.

Tom K.

[Nyanzilla]

Try another paper! Many of those extraordinary smooth papers are causing problems with hard starts or skipping.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Which is a nib fault!!!!

[bizhe]

Try pelikan ink, write with it for a few days, sometimes nibs do "break in"

[Bo Bo Olson]

Pelikan's nibs and feeds are designed for it's very own dry 4001 inks.....just like MB's is for it's medium/medium-dry inks, and Waterman for it's wetter inks.

All pen companies that make it's own inks, make the ink.nib&feed match.

 

When one uses a wet ink in a nib/feed designed for a dry ink (the nib and feed will gush wet ink)....performance is cut.

Drier inks in a wet designed feed............may not be bad at all if you are looking for shading....could be a bit more 'drag' than using the wet ink it was designed for; a thinner line, perhaps a bit lighter on the color.

Edited October 6, 2019 by Bo Bo Olson

[dbs]

Pelikan's nibs and feeds are designed for it's very own dry 4001 inks.....just like MB's is for it's medium/medium-dry inks, and Waterman for it's wetter inks.

All pen companies that make it's own inks, make the ink.nib&feed match.

 

When one uses a wet ink in a nib/feed designed for a dry ink (the nib and feed will gush wet ink)....performance is cut.

Drier inks in a wet designed feed............may not be bad at all if you are looking for shading....could be a bit more 'drag' than using the wet ink it was designed for; a thinner line, perhaps a bit lighter on the color.

 

Short summary: You use the damned WRONG ink!

 

Remind me how Steve Jobs' responsed to iphone antenna design flaw...

[sirgilbert357]

I'm sorry, but Bo Bo Olson is just wrong.

 

This is misinformation that he commonly spouts -- it may have been true 40 years ago, but it isn't now. Ever heard of Pelikan Edelstein inks? They have variances of wetness well beyond the wetness of 4001 inks. Does Pelikan tell anyone not to use their Edelstein inks in their Pelikan pens? I think not.

 

Modern pens are designed with feeds that can cope with a variety of inks and varying wetnesses. Feel free to believe what you want though.