Wing Sung 3001 And Jinhao 911, Best Xf Nibs Ever?

[rochester21]

There, i said it. The XF nibs fitted on my Wing Sung 659 and Jinhao 911 are the best i have ever tried.

 

There are multiple amusing aspects to this claim, i know. The 659 is a Pilot 78G clone, which i used to sell before becoming scarce. The F nibs on both pens lay down a extra-fine line, but the Wing Sung is definitely smoother. I am also suspecting the fact that the plastics used in the chinese version are of slightly better quality than the ones used in the 78G.

 

Meanwhile, the Jinhao 911 is a pen inspired by the flighter version of the Parker 51. Again, this is a case of the student who surpassed his master(in some aspects), because the XF nib in the Jinhao is way smoother than any P51 i have ever tried. Sure, the build quality is debatable, since nobody knows if the Jinhao 911 will survive anywhere near the amount of time and use that the P51 model has gone through.

 

That being said, these $2 fountain pens have amazingly good XF nibs and they are a joy to use. I don`t want to make any apples to oranges comparison here, but let`s just say that as far as writing performance goes, between the WS 659/Jinhao 911 and a Nakaya with a custom extra fine nib, i`d much prefer writing with any which one of the first two, although the Nakaya nib was springy while the others are perfectly stiff. Which is the way i like it.

 

I would love to do more comparisons, but western pens generally don`t write as fine as their asian counterparts, therefore for people who enjoy a nice smooth true F/XF nib, asian pens are usually the only practical solution. It would be unfair to claim that this situation is a new development, in Eastern Europe at least we traditionally prefer finer lines, which is why chinese pens have been widely used for decades, they were the best affordable choice, if not the best period.

 

Western manufacturers are good at producing pens with wider nibs, asian manufacturers have long specialized in making fine nibs. Today, they are better than ever and i`m enjoying the wide range of choices available on the market.

 

PS. Oops, i messed up the photo shoot. Each writing sample belongs to the other pen, but i guess most people will have already guessed that. They are identical in width, around ~0.4mm?

Edited September 21, 2019 by rochester21

[pajaro]

I think these two pens are OK, and they are even fine pens. I have used a few Sheaffer extra fines in Imperials that were well above. I also have a couple of 51 aeros in ef that are at least as smooth as those Chinese pens. The Chinese pens have made a long march, though.

Edited September 21, 2019 by pajaro

[rochester21]

I think these two pens are OK, and they are even fine pens. I have used a few Sheaffer extra fines in Imperials that were well above. I also have a couple of 51 aeros in ef that are at least as smooth as those Chinese pens. The Chinese pens have made a long march, though.

Sadly i have never tried a XF from Sheaffer, but since their modern F nibs run wide i am guessing their XF will do the same, we are talking true XF here.

 

Parker yes, trouble is that very few people still have access to a proper P51 in order to make comparisons, i once ordered a P51 XF nib for a swap and the darn thing was a scratchy mess. Others may be great, but how can i judge that?

 

Obviously, some people will get lesser copies than others indiferent if the pen is new, used or vintage, but the QC on these newer Jinhao and Wing Sung pens is pretty good. The worst that might happen is that the nib on on pen is just a hint worse or better than others, but they are all good writers out of the box- my experience.

Edited September 21, 2019 by rochester21

[Stefan-Ionut-Marius]

Well it's been in my experience and i believe that are good fountain pens with a EF nibs also the : JinHao 126 , Wing Sung 601 , Hero 616 Plus and Hero 616 Jumbo Golden cap .

[Mech-for-i]

AFAIK, and regarding XF nib , among vintage models, Gui-Guan used to made the best and finest ( as in the line width ) XF nibs , as for today Hero probaly is going more for easy smoothness so their XF are more like F and their F these days are more like FM ( both Asian / Japanese ) they are still generally finer than European grind anyway .. Moonman and Delike XF are what I would call good consistent XF today but there are others

[rochester21]

Well it's been in my experience and i believe that are good fountain pens with a EF nibs also the : JinHao 126 , Wing Sung 601 , Hero 616 Plus and Hero 616 Jumbo Golden cap .

 

Hm, from what i remember Hero 616 Jumbo and its lesser variants are a pinch wider than the above mentioned models. I used to classify the nibs on the 616 as traditional fine nibs. In any case, in recent years they have been surpassed in quality by the newer models. For instance, the Jinhao 911 is similar but better in all regards than the significantly more expensive Hero 100, which in turn was a step up from the 616 Jumbo aka Doctor, which again was better than the standard, smaller 616. Basically what this means is that, at the same price point, a Jinhao 911 is 3 times the pen the Hero 616 is.

 

Ergo, even by their standards, the chinese pens of today are a significant step up from older models. For one thing, the Jinhao 911 is a cartridge-converter fp, which automatically eliminates the headaches commonly associated with the traditional chinese made parker 51 copy, which were of low quality and prone to leaks. It took more than 50 years for them to improve on the design of the original parker 51, but they finally did it and i`m very happy about it.

 

(Of course, Parker themselves rectified the issue by releasing the parker 100, but that model is so scarce and expensive, not to mention bulkier than necessary, that many people will be happier with the asian alternatives, thank you very much).

Edited September 22, 2019 by rochester21

[rochester21]

AFAIK, and regarding XF nib , among vintage models, Gui-Guan used to made the best and finest ( as in the line width ) XF nibs , as for today Hero probaly is going more for easy smoothness so their XF are more like F and their F these days are more like FM ( both Asian / Japanese ) they are still generally finer than European grind anyway .. Moonman and Delike XF are what I would call good consistent XF today but there are others

 

Yes, very interesting to read. I have never heard of this brand before. Luckily for me, the described XXF nibs from Gui-Guan would be a bit extreme, although i assume that in mandarin such a nib width makes sense(chinese symbols look like art works to us, they`re just so delicate and intricate).

 

I have already ordered a Moonman M6, but their nibs are wide i believe. I will look into the Delike brand as well, thank you.

 

Just to make things clear, in my school days a XF-F nib(0.4-0.5mm) made sense because kids have tiny hands and we were used to write a lot as our teachers dictated entire lessons to us. We also had to be fast writers and cram as much information on the page as possible. In this scenario, a medium nib would be too wide and ineffective, while a XXF/UEF nib would be prone to damage. Therefore, a standard chinese parker 51 clone with a stiff fine(0.5mm) nib was ideal for use in schools, something like a hero 336 and others.

 

I imagine the western equivalent to these pens would be something like the Parker 45. Cheap, stiff nib, available in both traditional F and XF widths. I enjoy using my P45 flighter with F nib, however they are not as smooth as their chinese equivalents. Parker 21 also comes to mind, however i have no experience with this particular model.

 

In any case, the Jinhao 911 is an amazing P51 look-alike and even more practical due to the fact that it can use cartridges while also retaining that classic sci-fi look of the parker design. I`m really grateful this design has survived to this day, it`s too bad kids these days use ballpoints or even worse, a keyboard.

Edited September 22, 2019 by rochester21

[Stefan-Ionut-Marius]

 

Hm, from what i remember Hero 616 Jumbo and its lesser variants are a pinch wider than the above mentioned models. I used to classify the nibs on the 616 as traditional fine nibs. In any case, in recent years they have been surpassed in quality by the newer models. For instance, the Jinhao 911 is similar but better in all regards than the significantly more expensive Hero 100, which in turn was a step up from the 616 Jumbo aka Doctor, which again was better than the standard, smaller 616. Basically what this means is that, at the same price point, a Jinhao 911 is 3 times the pen the Hero 616 is.

 

Ergo, even by their standards, the chinese pens of today are a significant step up from older models. For one thing, the Jinhao 911 is a cartridge-converter fp, which automatically eliminates the headaches commonly associated with the traditional chinese made parker 51 copy, which were of low quality and prone to leaks. It took more than 50 years for them to improve on the design of the original parker 51, but they finally did it and i`m very happy about it.

 

(Of course, Parker themselves rectified the issue by releasing the parker 100, but that model is so scarce and expensive, not to mention bulkier than necessary, that many people will be happier with the asian alternatives, thank you very much).

The Hero 616 Jumbo steel cap has indeed an F nib but the Hero 616 Jumbo Golden cap has an EF nib i know that i have them both .

Edited September 24, 2019 by Stefan-Ionut-Marius

[Mech-for-i]

I do agree the 616 QC can be often hit or miss this way, that way ; when you get a good one, it can be very good, when you get a bad one , well its just bad alright .. that sounded I do not agree with Jinhao 911 being the better quality pen than the Hero 100; both I had multiple copies and consistently the 100 is the better pen ; but what I would say is the Jinhao is generally a wetter less feedback pen more tailored to more casual mass consumer ( especially for export market ) where the 100 was, and is still tuned to write the home language and thus flow conservative, and the grind is a quasi architect ( kind of like stub turned 90 degree ) and generally that grind is great for writing Chinese but not so great for writing cursive.

 

In fact even back then even among home market its known by Hero and their customers the 616 never mean to be anything quality ; its at the time just mean to provide a pen ( know that its 1961 ) that the then economy and customer can had and can use it for daily writing ... nothing fancy.

 

The Jinhao 911 is actually a clone remake of the Hero 339 ( both version inclusive, as the 339 also had build in aerometric and C/C variant ) ; and the 329 / 33X series is Hero one up from the 616 ( but it take them something like more than 20 years , since the 616 was released 1961, and the 3XX did not see release until early 80's )

[rochester21]

I do agree the 616 QC can be often hit or miss this way, that way ; when you get a good one, it can be very good, when you get a bad one , well its just bad alright .. that sounded I do not agree with Jinhao 911 being the better quality pen than the Hero 100; both I had multiple copies and consistently the 100 is the better pen ; but what I would say is the Jinhao is generally a wetter less feedback pen more tailored to more casual mass consumer ( especially for export market ) where the 100 was, and is still tuned to write the home language and thus flow conservative, and the grind is a quasi architect ( kind of like stub turned 90 degree ) and generally that grind is great for writing Chinese but not so great for writing cursive.

 

 

The Jinhao 911 is actually a clone remake of the Hero 339 ( both version inclusive, as the 339 also had build in aerometric and C/C variant ) ; and the 329 / 33X series is Hero one up from the 616 ( but it take them something like more than 20 years , since the 616 was released 1961, and the 3XX did not see release until early 80's )

 

Huh, so the People`s Republic of China made the Hero 100 for themselves and not for the cursive writing noobs....this is both funny, slightly offensive and very interesting. Must get a chinese girlfriend and learn some mandarin already, maybe my entire conception of fountain pen excellence has been wrong all these years. "Mind blown!". Reminds me of the time the Chinese Empire sent exploration ships who discovered Europe, but eventually gave up contacting the europeans because they were considered primitive and technically inferior.

 

One thing is sure, I`ve ordered around 5 Hero 100s and 3 of them had their hoods misaligned in relation to the nib. I`ve seen the same problem happening with the older 336 models, but the price gap would make one believe that the more expensive pens would be assembled more carefully.

 

You know, i do not remember the Hero 339, nor can i get images of it online. I remember the 336, 329, 332 etc. Not the 339, although these series were very much similar. I can say now that i am disappointed by the Hero company`s apparent lack of initiative in pen design in the last 5 years. Meanwhile Jinhao and the new Wing Sung keep coming up with new designs and most of all, good quality. Example, the above mentioned Jinhao 911. Maybe Hero sells more pens on the home market and doesn`t need the foreign markets?

 

Even so, it`s hard to imagine that Wing Sung isn`t making good money with their 699, 626 and 601 models. Same for Jinhao. I am also interested in knowing exactly who runs Wing Sung now, i understand the company has changed owners, bought new machinery etc. The quality of their pens has certainly gone up, especially the quality control, which in their 90s models was sloppy. These days the QC is so good it makes me think it`s an entirely different company altogether.

Edited September 24, 2019 by rochester21

[Mech-for-i]

Wing Sung is a brand, not a company , if you need to know that , its so even in vintage years. the 1990's was perhaps some of the worse years for Chinese fountain pen , while there are many Mfr and many different new model, the market was just not there for them and most of them simply fold, including Wing Sung. Today the brand is officially owned by Hero ( the corporate , not Hero pens ) ; the corp also own WSE ( Wing Sung Education ) , the brand Wing Sung though are licensed out by Hero Corporate to multiple company , WSE being one, Jinhao also get a license, and Shanghai JL ( who are responsible for the 601, 613, 699 etc ... ); some of them had their own manufacturing, some of them do the design work and assign OEM ; you might be surprised but most of the quality Wing Sung pens of today is actually manufactured by Hero Pens

 

Yes the Hero 100 was always mean for the home market one had to know that its released 1961 ( officially . though there are samples earlier into the late 50's ), and in between the 1990 up to around late 2016. the 100 had really some QC issue , part of that is with the manufacturing and part of that I suppose is with the actual workmanship ( manual labor ) part and no little part some are design fault ( yes the section is known for that ) .. Mid 2014 Hero had to redo the section and that is identifiable by its larger opening nib end and that prove working , but the customer do not like the shape and profile so they re do it again 2015 and come up with the current one that look externally the same as the old one but had all new mold that solve the age old section cracking / alignment. Hero pens go through a total re structure and move to new facility and re do a whole bunch of their machinery between 2014 to 2017, thus starting around late 2017 ; we start to see new one from them , and new batch of the 100 seen returning to proper quality product it should be ; and yes Hero pens sell majority of their product home market , more like the foreign market consist of a misery single digit % at best ( that is with the actual Hero brand product, not counting their industrial / OEM production side )

 

You had the Jinhao 911 then you know what the Hero 338/339 look like , other than the brand TEXT stamping everything the same

 

In any case Hero 007, 226, 329/33X, 616, 612, 856, 565, and of course the Hero 100 and a bunch of others are not even the typical current Hero fountain pen .. even in its home market, even being current on catalog and current in production they all are categorized as Vintage models and they are there simply because people are still buying them ( and for reason other than hobby generally , they were bought to be used ) really its those models like the H708, 981, 9317 and plenty of those mid range priced ones that are more like the typical Hero pens. But of course those usually never see the light outside of China. Even as a long time Chinese fountain pen user I would not recommend fellow hobbyist to sink their teeth into those vintage models unless well forewarn about the caveat ; its sort of like British and Italian club sports ( of the old days ) .. they can be fun, they can be performing but often then not they give you loads of headache

[Prof Drew]

@Mech-for-i thanks for explaining the history and corporate reality today regarding Chinese FPs. I often tried to imagine the role of 'companies' or factories during different periods of the PRC, and how they negotiated Five Year Plans, reforms, international trade, OEM jobs, IP law, etc.

 

Thank you for the back story of the Jinhao 911. It is a great EDC pen. I usually buy a few for my students to get an experience of using FPs. They also work very well on the cheap photocopy / laser paper my university buys. I was amazed on how the nib is even better than the "St PenBBS"? WingSun 601, which looks great, but has a clunky nib in comparison.

 

HK must be an interesting place to observe the changes...

 

I was wondering if you could answer two questions:

 

1) PenBBS seems quite different, originating as a BBS of fans of a site perhaps not unlike this FPN... but at some point it emerged into a company, yes? Do they make their own pens or is not now also a brand that does OEM? I know many companies do that now and have no factory of their own. Doug on the Inkquiring Minds (YouTube) gave a few overview of PenBBS, but I still am wondering.

 

2) Where would you suggest shopping for vintage / used classic early PRC pens like the Hero 339? (I regret that I wasn't thinking about that on my one short trip to Nanjing and Shanghai some years before COVID-19.)

 

Thank you again for the info you already provided and for considering my questions.