Vintage Waterman's Ideal Identification

[Zendawn123]

Hi,

 

Been a while since I have posted but was hoping the community might be able to help me identify this Vintage Waterman's Ideal Fountain Pen. It is indicated as 18k gold. Attached are photos.

 

Thank you in advance for the help! please enjoy the photos.

 

 

[Bo Bo Olson]

[Freddy]

Waterman Safety Gold-Filled 18K { need to see hallmark }....

 

With an Italian overlay that is 18K gold-filled. Featuring on cap and barrel:

High-relief dancing cherubs with flowers and garlands..c.1920's-1930's.....

Bellissima.............................................................................

Fred

[sidthecat]

That's a heckuva thing...how does it write?

[Zendawn123]

Waterman Safety Gold-Filled 18K { need to see hallmark }....

 

With an Italian overlay that is 18K gold-filled. Featuring on cap and barrel:

High-relief dancing cherubs with flowers and garlands..c.1920's-1930's.....

Bellissima.............................................................................

Fred

No hallmark exists other than Waterman's (Ideal) 18 K.T..

 

Thank you kindly for this information, let me know if you want me to take any other pictures in particular of this pen.

 

That's a heckuva thing...how does it write?

Have not tried writing with it.

Edited September 19, 2019 by Zendawn123

[Zendawn123]

I grabbed some additional photos in the light of day.

 

 

[Freddy]

No hallmark exists other than Waterman's (Ideal) 18 K.T..

 

Thank you kindly for this information, let me know if you want me to take any other pictures in particular of this pen.

.......If solid Au...should be hallmarked.........

My pleasure.....

 

Seals may need replacement......If you have no experience doing this..consider sending to a pro..

This pen has worth { $$$$ }

Fred

Edited September 19, 2019 by Freddy

[Zendawn123]

Tell me placement of 18 K.T. and or show it....If solid Au...should be hallmark..

Just seen your photos

My pleasure.....

 

Seals may need replacement......If you have no experience doing this..consider sending to a pro..

This pen has worth { $$$$ }

Fred

 

Fred

The pen is quite gorgeous. Again, I checked everywhere on the pen, and no AU Hallmark exists. The placement as shown in the photo of the Waterman's (Ideal) 18 K.T is on the bottom of the cap.

 

I am certain you are correct the seals would need replacement, and of course I would send it to the F.P.H. With regard to it's worth, how can one establish a baseline of reasonable value?

Edited September 19, 2019 by Zendawn123

[eharriett]

While not necessarily the answer about ID, look at the very bottom of the pen, not the bottom of the barrel, but the bottom of the knob. There may be some very small, hard to spot numbers printed there.

 

As far as worth, find those numbers, then we can help establish worth.

[dkreider]

That's pretty crazy, never seen one before but it's very impressive!

[Freddy]

 

 

I am certain you are correct the seals would need replacement, and of course I would send it to the F.P.H. With regard to it's worth, how can one establish a baseline of reasonable value?

If you send to {or bring in} 10 Warren Street FPH..Speak with Edward Fingerman .....................

Fred

[Bo Bo Olson]

I'd thought it slid 18K gold overlay.

Well mine is a Safety pen made by Fend in Italy rolled gold overlay, called a Fenomatic made in Milan.

Picture with permission of Penboard.de..............they make a much better picture than I ever can.

The chasing is slightly different on mine.I really like the finial on top.

[Freddy]

Bo Bo it could be..but I would like to see in person.....He'll get the dope on it from the above mentioned.....

Here is an old scan..note the two safety pens I was using recently..Top one..Uhlmann's Eterno..

number 2..Omega...Both original and are great everyday writers............................

Fred

[Zendawn123]

While not necessarily the answer about ID, look at the very bottom of the pen, not the bottom of the barrel, but the bottom of the knob. There may be some very small, hard to spot numbers printed there.

 

As far as worth, find those numbers, then we can help establish worth.

I checked and photographed the very bottom of the pen. It is 42, as shown. What does this indicate, and especially relative to its worth?

[eharriett]

I checked and photographed the very bottom of the pen. It is 42, as shown. What does this indicate, and especially relative to its worth?

Well, in terms of general worth, it tells you the model number, allowing you to check around your favorite auction sites to see what those same models are going for. Also allows you to check up on its history on this forum so you can be an informed user/seller.

 

I personally have a beautiful one of that version without the metal overlay. If you can’t find an identical one, you should be able to get an idea for how much the overlay adds to the value from looking at others with and without.

 

Sorry, your original question was asking for more info about the pen, not the value. It is a Waterman 42 safety pen with a metal overlay. Post WWI, but just barely. Everything else, anything else, ask away. I don’t usually sell my pens, I’d leave that answer to either your own studies or someone more experienced at selling them.

 

Personally, I love writing with mine. I travel with it, I just finished writing a letter with it. It gives me a great deal of pride to write with a pen that old and my handwriting with that pen looks exceptionally better than it usually does. I wouldn’t part with my 42 for anything.

[eharriett]

Oh, I forgot to add one thing to the previous post: if it is your intention to either sell it or use it, get it restored, probably by someone who will replace the deteriorated cork with rubber instead of new cork. While technically not original, it is far superior to the original cork. I’ve got another safety with cork replaced, it is not nearly as effective as the 42 with the rubber in it. That is, of course, my opinion.

 

Either way, a restored pen will add to the value much more than an unrestored, when you are talking safety. A lever filler pen is easy and can be restored by just about anyone (more or less), a safety will usually have to go to a pro. If I’m getting an unrestored safety, I’d be thinking about that additional cost when gauging whether or not to make a purchase.

[Freddy]

Pen is a standard size 42 { 12.5 cm } with an elaborate Italian overlay which was made in the 1930's.

The section threads indicate 1930's......I have quite a few safeties and your pen set off

a deja vu moment.....So..went to my study pulled off library shelf...Waterman Safety:

The Art of Overlay In Italy 1900-1940, by M. Dansi, L. Jacopini, E. Verduci.....

On pages 8 and 68 are photographs of your pen...Like I said earlier

pen has worth $$$$..even without restoration.......Sweet pen..It ain't no

ordinary black hard rubber 42..............

Fred..

me safeties have cork seals and function as they should..without any Problemo...............

Edited September 24, 2019 by Freddy

[Zendawn123]

Pen is a standard size 42 { 12.5 cm } with an elaborate Italian overlay which was made in the 1930's.

The section threads indicate 1930's......I have quite a few safeties and your pen set off

a deja vu moment.....So..went to my study pulled off library shelf...Waterman Safety:

The Art of Overlay In Italy 1900-1940, by M. Dansi, L. Jacopini, E. Verduci.....

On pages 8 and 68 are photographs of your pen...Like I said earlier

pen has worth $$$$..even without restoration.......Sweet pen..It ain't no

ordinary black hard rubber 42..............

Fred..

me safeties have cork seals and function as they should..without any Problemo...............

That is so cool you have a book with photos of my pen! Unbelievable. I cannot thank you enough, perhaps I will put it in the classifieds

 

Would it be to much to ask for you to photograph page 8 and 68 of the book, so that it can specifically be tied to my pen? I would greatly appreciate it.

 

Thank you again Freddy!

[Freddy]

That is so cool you have a book with photos of my pen! Unbelievable. I cannot thank you enough, perhaps I will put it in the classifieds

 

Would it be to much to ask for you to photograph page 8 and 68 of the book, so that it can specifically be tied to my pen? I would greatly appreciate it.

 

Thank you again Freddy!

I can't do.....Book is copyrighted....Try contacting author{s} for permission.....

Fred

[Zendawn123]

I can't do.....Book is copyrighted....Try contacting author{s} for permission.....

Fred

Understood.

 

I can't thank you enough for your continued support for this post. I actually have several other vintage Waterman's, I hope to see you join the conversation when I make those posts.

 

Cheers!