Modern Inks, Vintage Pens

[JR-McPen]

I know this topic has been discussed aplenty (I've read a lot of it) so here is a slight twist on the topic.

 

I just made my first foray into vintage pens and ordered some circa 1950's Esterbrook J pens, all using latex sacs as ink reservoirs. My current stable of inks is

 

Colorverse Gravity Wave

Diamine Blue Velvet

Diamine Burgundy Royale

Jaques Herbin Bleu de Minuit

Noodler's Heart of Darkness

Monteverde Blue Horizon

Monteverde Canyon Rust

Monteverde D.C. Supershow Blue

Monteverde Napa Burgundy

Pelikan Edelstein Aquamarine

Robert Oster Blue Water Ice

 

(Yes, I haven't been at this for very long.)

 

The consensus of recommended inks for vintage pens seems to be any of the inks (except red, orange and purple) from the following makers: Waterman, Pelikan 4001, Sheaffer Skrip, and Parker Squink. Other brands recommended by some also have their detractors and are not on this list. Except for possibly the Pelikan Edelstein Aquamarine, none of the recommended inks are anywhere to be found on my list.

 

The problem is, except for the Noodler's, none of my current inks is expressly condemned or rejected. Diamine inks are ok'ed by some, but they also fall under the blanket rejection of all modern, deeply color saturated inks proposed by others (to be on the safe side.) Along with the Noodler's, should I avoid using any of my current inks? Or are they all acceptable to use with proper attention to maintenance? Some yes, others no? Guidance and other comments on the subject will be appreciated.

 

richard hargrove

--

"I saw that."

- Karma

[ENewton]

I'd love to hear how the experts respond about J Herbin specifically. That company has been in the ink business for hundreds of years, and the inks tend not to be very saturated. Some people even refer to them as watery. I would expect any Herbin ink, other than the glitter inks, to be safe to use in a pen with a sac, but look forward to the learned opinions of those with more practical experience.

[sombrueil]

I have always used J.Herbin in my vintage pens. The colors can be rather washy but some are very nice. Not their 1670 inks though. Pelikan Bright Brown is another perfectly safe ink, though best matched to a wet writer. And my only R&K, Alt Goldgrun, has behaved impeccably for me. I am branching tentatively out to a few other brands besides my trusted Diamine, J.Herbin, and Pelikan -- Birmingham Pens and Sailor Jentle, so far.

I won't use any Noodlers, any "sheening" inks, or saturated brands in my vintage pens. I started out with Esterbrooks and similar-priced pens but now (thanks entirely to the infamous enablers on this board) I have moved up to less replaceable pens.

On the other hand, Esterbrooks are not so pricy nor so delicate you shouldn't take any risks! Probably even Noodlers is safe if you routinely use up your fill quickly and clean your pen completely between fills.

[ENewton]

I have always used J.Herbin in my vintage pens. The colors can be rather washy but some are very nice. Not their 1670 inks though. Pelikan Bright Brown is another perfectly safe ink, though best matched to a wet writer. And my only R&K, Alt Goldgrun, has behaved impeccably for me. I am branching tentatively out to a few other brands besides my trusted Diamine, J.Herbin, and Pelikan -- Birmingham Pens and Sailor Jentle, so far.

 

 

I bought J Herbin Poussiere de Lune precisely to use in vintage pens and have had no trouble after five years, but perhaps five years is not long enough as the basis for a verdict.

[sansenri]

I would consider these quite safe

Diamine Blue Velvet

Jaques Herbin Bleu de Minuit

Monteverde Blue Horizon

Pelikan Edelstein Aquamarine

 

Pelikan and JH very much so.

[MsRedpen]

I would consider these quite safe

Diamine Blue Velvet

Jaques Herbin Bleu de Minuit

Monteverde Blue Horizon

Pelikan Edelstein Aquamarine

 

Pelikan and JH very much so.

Yes, that would be my pick too.

Add on note: Diamine Blue Velvet and Monteverde Blue Horizon are more vibrant colours. In my experience those take a bit more effort to flush, compared to Aquamarine and Bleu Nuit.

[JR-McPen]

I would consider these quite safe

Diamine Blue Velvet

Jaques Herbin Bleu de Minuit

Monteverde Blue Horizon

Pelikan Edelstein Aquamarine

 

Pelikan and JH very much so.

 

 

Thanks for the specific recommendations. I will use them without worry.

 

richard hargrove

--

You matter.

Unless you multiply yourself by the speed of light squared.

Then, you energy.

[yazeh]

I've used Herbin Bleu Nuit with no problem...

I used also Bleu Pervenche, it shades delightfully in a flex.

If you ever buy J. Herbin, Rose Cycalmen don't use it.

It will take you ages to flush it out....

[Runnin_Ute]

I have used a variety of inks in my Esterbrooks. The pens I am most concerned about are ones I don't have the knowledge or skill to re-sac myself, such as my Parker 51 Demi Vacumatic. It currently is inked with vintage Sheaffer Skrip Emerald Green, but gets a regular dose of Waterman Serenity Blue and occasionally Diamine Blue Black.

 

Currently none of my Esties are inked, but I wouldn't hesitate to use an ink such as Blackstone Barrier Reef Blue or Sydney Harbour Blue which are both sheen monsters in one.

[txomsy]

I pretty much use almost anything. As long as it is FP ink.

 

The only caution I have is with Noodler's Baystate inks as I know they shouldn't be mixed with other inks, and so, either I clean the pen thoroughly or only use it for that ink.

 

They were made in a time when ink quality control was not as exquisite. Some where expected to be used with "traditional" IG inks (much more acidic) and some even with dried (due to evaporation) or reconstituted inks (e.g. ink pills in IWW). Generally speaking I expect old pens to be more resistant than modern pens. There are, of course exceptions, with some inks having notoriously been reported to "eat" pens, sacs or feeders, but these are usually promptly noticed, reported and short-lived.

 

Remember these were the times when you would never clean a pen (except, maybe to change ink colors, they were also the times of one person-one pen) and often leave them inked for months or years.

 

Which is not to say it is OK. After all they are vintage, no longer made, and personally, I think they should be preserved, so the most careful you are on handling them, the better. But I don't see much of a reason to be paranoid. Which is why I try to use "milder" inks on piston-fillers (more difficult to clean) and avoid particulate (shiimmer) inks (mainly to avoid needing more "aggressive" cleaning).

[welch]

I don't know or haven't used Colorverse and Robert Oster. The others should be OK.

 

I've used various Diamine and Private Reserve inks in Esterbrook pens. No problems. Richard Binder warns against heavily saturated inks, such as Noodlers and Private Reserve, but it is so easy to replace the sac in an Estie that I don't worry.

 

Avoid glitter inks. Who needs glitter?

 

I avoid Noodler's special-purpose inks, such as Polar and Eel, and the ultra-permanent inks, all for different reasons.

 

Polar? People have written in cold climates as long as people have written. No need for a deep-freeze ink. We write inside, anyway.

 

Eel? I tried Blue Eel when it was released, and liked the color, but it crawled around the piston in two Onoto K pens and a Wality. If an ink behaves like croil, or "oil that crawls", then it's too wet for its own good.

 

Permanent ink that bonds with fibers? A bother to clean up, since I'm more likely to spill ink on a desk, floor, or clothing than to spill water on writing.

 

Baystate? I had some unpleasant adventures wiping and washing up Private Reserve American Blue. "Small drops go a long way". Baystate seems even more concentrated than PR AB.

[silverlifter]

Remember these were the times when you would never clean a pen (except, maybe to change ink colors, they were also the times of one person-one pen) and often leave them inked for months or years.

 

This. I remember seeing a video where Brian Goulet said that if you used Iron Gall inks, you should clean your pen "daily". And I thought, wow, we have got to the point where purported experts are completely unaware of the history of their subject.

 

The almost compulsive obsession that many people have for completely disassembling their pens to clean them every time they fill them is far more likely to shorten their lifespan than not cleaning an IG inked pen for months (assuming that pen is periodically used).

[Bibliophage]

 

This. I remember seeing a video where Brian Goulet said that if you used Iron Gall inks, you should clean your pen "daily". And I thought, wow, we have got to the point where purported experts are completely unaware of the history of their subject.

 

The almost compulsive obsession that many people have for completely disassembling their pens to clean them every time they fill them is far more likely to shorten their lifespan than not cleaning an IG inked pen for months (assuming that pen is periodically used).

Heh. I flush the pens when I'm done, but I don't bother disassembling them - unless I left them _full_, and sitting for a year. Ooops. The only reason I do a full flush is that I then put the pen away, and pull out another one. When I was just using a Vector daily, I just put a new cartridge in and went on about my business. I don't think I cleaned that pen more than once every six months - and it's still fine after 30+ years.

[Arkanabar]

I'll add myself to the chorus basically saying, "Hey, it's an Estie J or Dollar, they're simple, not too pricey, and robust, so don't worry." It's the Citroen 2CV of pens.

[inkstainedruth]

For me, it depends on the ink, and the pen. I haven't thought twice about putting some Noodler's or Private Reserve inks in the Parker 51 Aerometrics -- they're a PITA to clean, but pretty robust (I'm a bit more careful with the 51 Vacs). I've had reasonably good luck in some of the Vacumatics with some of the wetter De Atramentis inks, but mostly use "safe" inks, like Waterman or vintage Quink ink. The capillary fill 61s get less saturated inks (J Herbin works particularly well in them, but I'vealso used some of the wetter De Atramentis inks in some of them as well; as to the comment about avoiding Rose Cyclamen, too late... ; but I also tend to do a fill or two in the 61s and then flush the pen just enough to get the ink flowing again, which means I'll probably still be writing with diluted/reconstituted Rose Cylamen at LEAST through Thanksgiving).

I've used a variety of inks in some of the Sheaffer Snorkels, but the one with the EF nib is extremely persnickety, so that one mostly gets modern Skrip inks (it didn't even like vintage Skrip Peacock!).

I tend to use modern c/c pens for iron gall inks -- the smaller capacity reminds me to flush more often.

I've used several different brands in the Morrison ringtop (I liked the look of Diamine Emerald coming out of it , but I think I've also used Noodler's Purple Heart); it's got a very juicy nib on it.

Some of the really saturated inks just don't do well in vintage pens. As for Baystate Blue? It gets relegated to a BSB use only pen -- I've seen the photos where someone tried to make the "ideal" blue-black by mixing it with Noodler's Black; and let's just say the results weren't pretty....

The 1950s era Pelikan with the OB nib I think I've mostly used 4001 Brilliant Black in (the more modern ones I'm less fussy about, and the 1980s M100, with its 1 mm stub nib, seems to do okay even with shimmer inks (and if necessary, I can of course unscrew the nib assembly for more thorough cleaning).

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

 

ETA: I do remember reading a few years ago that someone was going to try using some iron gall ink in a restored vintage Esterbrook exclusively, to see how it did. I don't remember who that was, or how long the experiment lasted (IIRC, the person was not going to flush all that often, just to see what happened). And I don't know if there was ever any followup post with the results.

Edited October 22, 2019 by inkstainedruth

[txomsy]

From Gentleman's gazette

Iron gall inks are still available today and if you use it, should be rinsed at least twice a year, which is twice as often as with the use of normal inks.

 

 

It is on the page "Pelikan Fountain Pen Guide". And it is after they properly mention that these are "high maintenance inks".

 

Must say that they also perpetuate some old myths, but I found it telling of the POV of old-timers.