Jump to content

Thoughts Appreciated - 20X Vs 80X (Ef Demonstrator Focus)


feynman

Recommended Posts

Please forgive the naive questions, as I've never touched either of these in real life.

I have been lusting for a nice clear demonstrator for awhile. Of all that I've seen, I'm drawn most to the Pelikans.

I write small and prefer very fine points. I wouldn't mind some springiness in my nib (for reference I'm in total love with my Falcon Soft Extra Fine nib).

Aside from the obvious component upgrades from 205 to 805, how different is the writing experience? I'm thinking of the EF option unless advised otherwise.

I see at least one of our preferred dealers offers the 205 with a 405 nib - any comments there are appreciated as well.

I have read every thread I can find, and of course the 20x and 80x are not often compared side by side...

I don't mind spending the extra money for the 805; and in fact I'd probably prefer to as it is such a lovely, lovely pen. Before I commit though, I'd like to have some idea of the writing characteristics (if it's possible to explain in words).

I've seen several posters describe their 200 nibs as a bit bouncier, and many seem to prefer them...but I know nothing.

If you have a moment and can share any thoughts, I'd appreciate it.

Thank you.

 

-mitch

 

P.S. If there are other clear demonstrators that I should consider, I'd love to know about them too. :)

Edited by feynman
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 13
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

  • feynman

    4

  • Bo Bo Olson

    3

  • Calabria

    2

  • macaddicted

    1

The 800 series is substantially bigger than the 200s. Longer, more breadth. I find small. light weight pens to be incredibly uncomfortable to use for any length of time. You're not going to find the spring of a Falcon (which I've also owned) in the Pelikan.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I find standard sized pens like the 200/400 comfortable my self, but due to a grip change no longer have the Death Grip Classic Trypod.

 

A 200 is not a small light pen, it is a well balanced nimble standard sized pen, very well balanced when posted which IMO it should be.So I learned, back in the Dark Ages of B&W TV. The 400 is standard sized as is the fantastically well balanced P-75. The 600 is medium large like the P-51 and both are very very well balanced, posted.

 

The only Large pen I think has great balance is the thin Snorkel. The MB 146 (1970 plus) is adequately balanced, but the the medium-large '50-70 146...has great balance...posted. The Large 146 is lighter and more nimble than the 800.

 

IMO the fat 800 is ill balanced; unposted or posted..........the fatter 1000 being longer has better balance if one wants a oversized pen. The 1000 is not a great balanced pen IMO...but better than the 800.

 

Many refuse to post pens that were designed to be posted like medium-small 140, standard sized 200/400, or the medium large 600; for religious grounds. In if one waxes one's pen, there is no mar.

 

But some younger folks started out with either big heavy Chinese pens, or any other of the very many bling '90's Large heavy pens that kept fountain pens alive.............

The then very large, now "standard" large Sheaffer PFM....Pen For Men; did not sell well back in the day....in then folks still insisted on a pen having good to great balance.

 

A few good posters, stated they like the round fat butter smooth nib, in they rotate/cant their pens...............OK.

IMO if so a oblique is helpful, but again my opinion, a modern oblique has no line variation. Same with semi-vintage. But they do cant the pen for a writer who needs to see the top of the nib. I suspect left eye dominance.

 

Vintage is a stub, semi-flex..........which is a flair nib......but to my surprise many actually don't like them because they are 'so slow'.

I didn't realize into two months ago, they were over flexing the nib.....making them 'Flex' pens, when they are not. Semi= almost and almost in this case is miles from a superflex pen.

 

I never had any trouble with them writing slow with straight or oblique semi-flex because I write in a regular script, getting a bit of built in flair......instead of abusing the nib, by trying to do calligraphy lettering.

 

3X is IMO the max one should make a semi or maxi nib spread it's tines. (then seldom....a fancy decender at the end of a paragraph, a fancy crossed T. When one starts making fancy letters, it is 'on Demand, not because the nib is slow.) Some who find semi-flex so 'slow' regularly take the nib out to 4&5X, while doing calligraphy lettering. No wonder it's so slow.

It's one of those things....It's my nib and I'll beat it as I wish.....sell it with out telling the truth............it had been regularly over stressed. (I don't want to buy such a nib.)

Do read Richard Binder's fine article on metal fatigue, which I call how to spring a nib.

Edited by Bo Bo Olson

In reference to P. T. Barnum; to advise for free is foolish, ........busybodies are ill liked by both factions.

 

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thank you for the words...I will try to get my hands on several examples to help me figure it out. I suppose that's the only real way to know.

 

You know, when I joined, I was just thinking that I'd like to obtain -one- nice fountain pen. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have the M205 and the M805, both in EF. How to compare them? I hardly use the M805; it's definitely beautiful, the EF nib is a decent writer. But to me, it's more of a collectible pen. For daily writing, I prefer the M205. It's smallish, true, but larger than most ballpoint pens. The nib is elastic and fun. Not super comfortable, but Pelikans tend not to be as comfortable as other pens; anyway that's totally subjective.

 

I guess this is not super helpful. Although they seem similar on photos, they're really very different pens. It depends on whether you like big pens or the old fashioned compact form.

 

As an aside, the metal nib is somewhat larger than m400 nibs; I measured it against my M605 nib and strangely, they have the same length. The extra mm or so adds a bit to my writing enjoyment.

"If you can spend a perfectly useless afternoon in a perfectly useless manner, you have learned how to live."

– Lin Yu-T'ang

Link to comment
Share on other sites

PS You write that you joined FPN to obtain - one - fine fountain pen. I don't know if you're being ironic since everybody here is a pen addict 😂 but if you're looking for - one - demonstrator pen, my vote is for the Pilot Custom Heritage 92 in MF. Price, quality, nib smoothness, line wetness, and comfort in the hand all commend the CH92.

 

I once went on a watch website to find one decent watch and their recommendation - Seiko Alpinist - has been my trusty companion for 15 years now. Good luck with your search!

"If you can spend a perfectly useless afternoon in a perfectly useless manner, you have learned how to live."

– Lin Yu-T'ang

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thank you for the words...I will try to get my hands on several examples to help me figure it out. I suppose that's the only real way to know.

 

You know, when I joined, I was just thinking that I'd like to obtain -one- nice fountain pen. :)

I was a One Man, One Pen man for 40 years.............used my silver P-75 Religiously once a decade........then I inherited some fountain pens..................you don't even see a Black Hole coming.

In reference to P. T. Barnum; to advise for free is foolish, ........busybodies are ill liked by both factions.

 

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...

If you "write small and prefer very fine nibs", I think you'll be much happier with the steel EFs on the M200/205s (plus you get that slight springiness). The modern gold EFs on my Souverans definitely write more like Fs.

 

The two golds I have that lay down what I consider a reasonably fine line are both older, one a vintage 140 from the 50s and the other an M250 F from the early 90s.

It's hard work to tell which is Old Harry when everybody's got boots on.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thank you for the words...I will try to get my hands on several examples to help me figure it out. I suppose that's the only real way to know.

 

You know, when I joined, I was just thinking that I'd like to obtain -one- nice fountain pen. :)

I inherited a few pens, and suddenly had 5 to go with my bought in '70 P-75.

10-12 pens and 7-8 inks would be enough for anyone.... :lticaptd:

 

If you alternate stub and CI in nails/semi-nails, there are some 45 different nibs to be had, in various widths and flexes. In my 70-80 pens I have some 35 of such nibs.

 

My advice is chase the nib, not the make or model....and vintage has better nibs.........take your time.

Do Not join the Pen of the Week in the Mail Club. Same goes for the pen of the month.

You get a much better pen, that you know so much more about in the pen of the quarter club. :thumbup:

Besides which you can :puddle: over many pens for each of those three months.

 

Do go to Richard Binders site, not only is it the bible of fountain pens, with great explanations of nibs, filling systems....there are ever so many :drool: :notworthy1: :puddle: pens to drool over.

In reference to P. T. Barnum; to advise for free is foolish, ........busybodies are ill liked by both factions.

 

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And once again, thanks to all for the thoughts.

 

I ended up with a 205 demonstrator in Extra Fine to start with. I like the bounciness of the nib, and the pen is a good size for my hands. The only thing that didn't really work for me is that even in EF it isn't fine enough for my tastes...so I am doing an experiment and having a nibmeister make it even finer (I've never had this sort of service done before). It will be a while before it returns to me, and if it doesn't work out, it wasn't too costly of a loss.

 

Fun days!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And once again, thanks to all for the thoughts.

 

I ended up with a 205 demonstrator in Extra Fine to start with. I like the bounciness of the nib, and the pen is a good size for my hands. The only thing that didn't really work for me is that even in EF it isn't fine enough for my tastes...so I am doing an experiment and having a nibmeister make it even finer (I've never had this sort of service done before). It will be a while before it returns to me, and if it doesn't work out, it wasn't too costly of a loss.

 

Fun days!

 

 

I think that you made a good choice there though both are great pens. Pelikan's nibs can be a bit broad for their size and a custom grind is really the best way to ensure the nib width and writing experience that you desire. I hope it all works out for you and thanks for sharing.

PELIKAN - Too many birds in the flock to count. My pen chest has proven to be a most fertile breeding ground.

fpn_1508261203__fpn_logo_300x150.jpg

THE PELIKAN'S PERCH - A growing reference site for all things Pelikan

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I can't speak to the 80x, but I really, REALLY regret going for the demo model on my 205. It stains badly and easily, and the body scratches just from capping it, the plastic it's made from is absolutely awful.

 

I adore my 205, but I wish I'd gotten it in literally ANY other finish.

Selling a boatload of restored, fairly rare, vintage Japanese gold nib pens, click here to see (more added as I finish restoring them)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Most Contributions

    1. amberleadavis
      amberleadavis
      43844
    2. PAKMAN
      PAKMAN
      33474
    3. Ghost Plane
      Ghost Plane
      28220
    4. inkstainedruth
      inkstainedruth
      26573
    5. jar
      jar
      26101
  • Upcoming Events

  • Blog Comments

    • Shanghai Knife Dude
      I have the Sailor Naginata and some fancy blade nibs coming after 2022 by a number of new workshop from China.  With all my respect, IMHO, they are all (bleep) in doing chinese characters.  Go use a bush, or at least a bush pen. 
    • A Smug Dill
      It is the reason why I'm so keen on the idea of a personal library — of pens, nibs, inks, paper products, etc. — and spent so much money, as well as time and effort, to “build” it for myself (because I can't simply remember everything, especially as I'm getting older fast) and my wife, so that we can “know”; and, instead of just disposing of what displeased us, or even just not good enough to be “given the time of day” against competition from >500 other pens and >500 other inks for our at
    • adamselene
      Agreed.  And I think it’s good to be aware of this early on and think about at the point of buying rather than rationalizing a purchase..
    • A Smug Dill
      Alas, one cannot know “good” without some idea of “bad” against which to contrast; and, as one of my former bosses (back when I was in my twenties) used to say, “on the scale of good to bad…”, it's a spectrum, not a dichotomy. Whereas subjectively acceptable (or tolerable) and unacceptable may well be a dichotomy to someone, and finding whether the threshold or cusp between them lies takes experiencing many degrees of less-than-ideal, especially if the decision is somehow influenced by factors o
    • adamselene
      I got my first real fountain pen on my 60th birthday and many hundreds of pens later I’ve often thought of what I should’ve known in the beginning. I have many pens, the majority of which have some objectionable feature. If they are too delicate, or can’t be posted, or they are too precious to face losing , still they are users, but only in very limited environments..  I have a big disliking for pens that have the cap jump into the air and fly off. I object to Pens that dry out, or leave blobs o
  • Chatbox

    You don't have permission to chat.
    Load More
  • Files






×
×
  • Create New...