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Lubricating 80S 149


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#1 aurore

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 21:18

Hello, any suggestions how to lubricate the piston of 80s 149 (with plastic mechanism I am unable to disassemble)?
I am asking about DIY methods. "Contact your boutique" is not quite the advice :)
Thanks.



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#2 Michael R.

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 21:18

In my opinion the mechanism needs to be removed for lubrication. I use vaseline just like Montblanc does when servicing pens.

The 1980s mechanism should be able to be removed just like any Montblanc 149 from the 1970s on until today.

Only early 1960s shrink fit mechanisms require different skills and tools.

Maybe some repair person can help removing the mechanism?

Good luck

 

Michael



#3 zaddick

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 21:18

buy a wrench and unscrew it. it is possible to make the tool if you prefer.


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#4 aurore

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 21:18

Thank you guys. So basically the same method as with current production despite 80s mechanism is partly plastic?



#5 Michael R.

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 21:18

Yes. Just make sure it is not the 60s friction fit filler (which should not have the notches for the removal-tool).

 

Cheers

 

Michael



#6 aurore

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 21:18

Thank you very much, Michael. Actually what is a good source of reasonably priced wrenches except ebay (where they are quite overpriced currently, the Chinese are still selling them for 10 bucks but with a 40 bucks shipping :))?



#7 Michael R.

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 21:18

https://www.mspens.de/shop/

 

Cheers

 

Michael



#8 jmcf1949

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 21:18

I screwed open the piston on my 149 while the pen was upright and poured some silicone from TWSBI on the plastic threads.  The stuff was somewhat runny and after a day or two sitting upright the piston was smooth as glass.  I was quite surprised.



#9 Ron Z

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 21:18

I wouldn't do that. 

 

The  silicone from TWBI is silicone oil, which will will wash away quickly and get into the ink and therefore the feed.  Silicone grease is better, especially if it has been made to be resistant to washing off, as is Molykote 111.  The tool is worth the investment if you are likely to keep the pen for any length of time.  A jar of silicone grease will set you back $5 plus a couple of bucks shipping.


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#10 aurore

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 21:18

I wouldn't do that. 

 

The  silicone from TWBI is silicone oil, which will will wash away quickly and get into the ink and therefore the feed.  Silicone grease is better, especially if it has been made to be resistant to washing off, as is Molykote 111.  The tool is worth the investment if you are likely to keep the pen for any length of time.  A jar of silicone grease will set you back $5 plus a couple of bucks shipping.

 

Thank you a lot Ron. So you would rather use a silicone grease not vaseline?



#11 rossy

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 21:18

Use silicone grease as Ron noted. I'm using Super Lube silicone grease. Clean the chamber with clean q-tips and rub some (never generous amount!) silicone grease on the chamber wall and the piston (white). You don't have to apply grease on the rod or any other part. Good luck!



#12 aurore

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 21:18

Thank you! It's just many say MB uses vaseline. I have lubricated Pelikans only so far (with silicone) and would prefer to avoid faults especially with my pen from 70s.

#13 Uncial

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 21:18

I'm completely confused. I know some warn off sillicone grease because some brands contain a petrolium derivative but I have sillicone grease that has no petrolium component that I've used in other pens (although not MB's). Another thread suggests not using sillicone grease at all but to use only vaseline but I'm fairly sure that is effectively petrolium jelly. 

Full disclosure: I have the piston unscrewing tool and was thinking about taking a Schiller apart to regrease (I suspect seals have failed as it burps from the front and leaks from the piston when it's warmed in my hand). Now I'm so confused I might just send it to MB to do.



#14 aurore

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 21:18

I'm completely confused. I know some warn off sillicone grease because some brands contain a petrolium derivative but I have sillicone grease that has no petrolium component that I've used in other pens (although not MB's). Another thread suggests not using sillicone grease at all but to use only vaseline but I'm fairly sure that is effectively petrolium jelly. 

Full disclosure: I have the piston unscrewing tool and was thinking about taking a Schiller apart to regrease (I suspect seals have failed as it burps from the front and leaks from the piston when it's warmed in my hand). Now I'm so confused I might just send it to MB to do.

 

I am just as confused. I have read almost everything on the subject here but there is no consensus.

To summarize.

 

Group one insists that vaseline (petroleum jelly) is the best way to go because it was mentioned in some MB papers and also a former MB employee said vaseline is what MB service uses etc. The main argument is that vaseline is allegedly what MB uses. This group also sometimes claims that silicone grease may eventually cause micro cracks.

 

Group two says that PURE 100% silicone grease (not oil) is the way to go and they have never had any troubles with it (and have never seen proofs that it indeed caused any damage) and all the supposed negatives of silicone to plastics is because not a pure silicone grease was used. 

 

Group three says they use both and never had any troubles.



#15 Ron Z

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 21:18

I've asked those who know MB pens better than I about petroleum jelly VS silicone grease. Their answer was silicone grease.

The reading that I've done says that MB suggested petroleum jelly because silicone grease may have caused some pens to develop problems, but that was quite a while ago. But doing plastic repairs as much as I do, I've experimented and have found that modern MB "precious resin" has proven to be resistant to any of the solvents that I use in pen repair. I do mean EVERYTHING, except cyclohexane, which caused complete and catastrophic failure of the resin. That isn't in silicone grease. I think that silicone grease is a much a better lubricant and is less likely to wash off.  But if almost nothing reacts with MB resin, petroleum jelly isn't likely to harm the pen or the plastic piston seal either.  But that applies to the MB pens only - no other brand!

Not all silicone greases are the same. There are different formulations. I would avoid using Super Lube (even though I think it's great stuff)  in some applications  because it has other things like Teflon add to it. Read the application sheets for the product you want to use. You can learn quite a bit.

 

Molykote 111 is a  Dow Corning product, and the application information says that it is resistant to washing off, and is "compatible with many plastics and elastomers." Nobody is going to say that it is compatible with ALL because it can't be tested with everyting that's out there. I feel comfortable using the product in pen repair, and do. I sell it because I know it works, and believe it to be safe and appropriate for use in pens.

Now, having written all that, I delayed posting until I could send an email to a friend who is head of the Chemistry Department at the local college, because reading the MSDS I noticed that it contains Octamethylcyclotetrasiloxane  or (OMCTS).  Is that related to cyclohexaney in any way?

 

His reply is helpful...

 

Octamethylcyclotetrasiloxane (OMCTS) is the precursor used for most silicone oils, waxes, or greases (or plastics). It may be listed on  your MSDS because traces remain. Or, it may be there intentionally because it is a silicone liquid itself which would help make the grease thinner, as you suggest.

 

Silicones in general do not interact much with other polymers or rubbers. They are chemically dissimilar and therefore do not (usually) soften or dissolve in them. So, for your Montblanc pen resin, I would not expect that the Molykote 111 would react with it or soften it. However, I would suggest trying a little bit on some inconspicuous area if possible to test it. [edit: which we already have many times over many years without problems]

 

The word “cyclo” in OMCTS indicates a ring structure, which is also present in cyclohexane. However, the functional groups in the molecule are different, and that is what determines chemical properties.


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#16 zaddick

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 21:18

Thank you Ron for this additional insight.

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#17 aurore

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 21:18

:notworthy1:  For me this is the ultimate explanation and answer and the real end of this reccuring subject. Thank you so much, Ron!



#18 Ron Z

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 21:19

Copied and pinned in the repair forum so that it can be found easily....


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