Platinum Classic Line - Any Lightfastness Info?

[Candlejackstraw]

I was wondering if anyone has conducted lightfastness tests on the platinum classic line of inks, or knows of any tests that have taken place? I would like to potentially use them for pen and ink art. Thank you

[BaronWulfraed]

They are iron gall inks... traditionally the color/dye in such was expected to fade away while the transparent iron gall component oxidizes to a black/grey. The dye was used to make the writing visible while awaiting the more permanent oxidization. The stronger iron gall inks, over time, would eat/burn through the paper due to the acidic nature (even the Classic series are still around pH 2; maybe a 3 at the least acidic version -- where pH 7 is neutral, and pH 14 is the most corrosive alkali (base) you can find.

 

Hence, not something one would use for art work meant to last longer than the time needed to scan and reproduce.

[Candlejackstraw]

They are iron gall inks... traditionally the color/dye in such was expected to fade away while the transparent iron gall component oxidizes to a black/grey. The dye was used to make the writing visible while awaiting the more permanent oxidization. The stronger iron gall inks, over time, would eat/burn through the paper due to the acidic nature (even the Classic series are still around pH 2; maybe a 3 at the least acidic version -- where pH 7 is neutral, and pH 14 is the most corrosive alkali (base) you can find.

 

Hence, not something one would use for art work meant to last longer than the time needed to scan and reproduce.

Bummer so far I have some Noodlers, platinum carbon and platinum pigmented inks, but Im looking for a permanent green and red inks for art. The dark forest platinum classic is really nice and would be perfect for sketches if it was permanent

 

Thank you for the information on the dye aspect, didnt realize the initial coloring for iron gall is to see whats being applied. I guess they are soley for in the moment writing effect?

[A Smug Dill]

Bummer so far I have some Noodlers, platinum carbon and platinum pigmented inks, but Im looking for a permanent green and red inks for art.

What about Sailor STORiA pigment inks?

[Candlejackstraw]

What about Sailor STORiA pigment inks?

Tbh, I dont think ive heard of them. Ill definately look into them though!! I should probably also look into de atramentis ink (though they seem to be a little pricey and/sold out)

[inkstainedruth]

I'm not a great fan of the De Atramentis Document inks. The ones I've tried have had a tendency to spread and have bleedthrough issues. And their Archive Black is very dry. I've tried a couple of the R&K Documentus inks -- Helblau isn't bad; Dunkelblau is an odd and sort of flat chalky color.

I have no experience with the Storia inks, although I do really like Sailor Souboku. Remember that pigmented inks will take a little extra maintenance to fully flush.

And yes, unfortunately in my experience IG inks aren't UV resistant (much as I like them, and I particularly like Platinum Classic Forest Black for the color).

If you want a pretty waterproof (although I don't know about its UV resistance) have a look at Noodler's Park Red. As for a long-lasting (waterproof/UV resistant) green? I can't help you there, sorry.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[Intensity]

Ive done some tests last year but didnt note the date I removed the exposed sheet I had taped to a highly sun-exposed window. It was at least 3 months of exposure. All the swabs faded but not to oblivion. But actual writing is still very legible. Ill post a scan tomorrow.

[Candlejackstraw]

I'm not a great fan of the De Atramentis Document inks. The ones I've tried have had a tendency to spread and have bleedthrough issues. And their Archive Black is very dry. I've tried a couple of the R&K Documentus inks -- Helblau isn't bad; Dunkelblau is an odd and sort of flat chalky color.

I have no experience with the Storia inks, although I do really like Sailor Souboku. Remember that pigmented inks will take a little extra maintenance to fully flush.

And yes, unfortunately in my experience IG inks aren't UV resistant (much as I like them, and I particularly like Platinum Classic Forest Black for the color).

If you want a pretty waterproof (although I don't know about its UV resistance) have a look at Noodler's Park Red. As for a long-lasting (waterproof/UV resistant) green? I can't help you there, sorry.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

Thank you for your reply! I plan on using archival watercolor paper (either cotton or bockingford) and Ill use either a glass dip pen or a noodlers flex (or other cheap fountain pen for ink delivery)

 

Its a shame that de atramentis archive black is so dry.. because I figure I would need to mix it with their green inorder to achieve the dark green I want (40 dollars, 2 bottles, is expensive for an experiment, and I dont like how drawing inks such as dr phil martens india inks seperate out)

 

Sailor souboku is lightfast?

 

I havent heard of noodlers park red. I have their esenin (their russian red), but i havent found any tests on that yet

[Eclipse157]

I'd suggest you look a bit into Roher&Klingner SketchINK line, it's advertised waterproof and lighfast. They are much cheaper than R&K Dokumentus or DeAtr Document ink. I have a few of them, I didn't test their lightfastness but can assure you: they are waterproof. I find them very pleasant to write with, nicely wet and slightly lubricated, they feather and bleed less than I expected. Cons: funny smell, the pigment settles rather quickly both in the bottle and in the pen, and shaking the bottle makes an awfully resistant foam.

[Candlejackstraw]

Ive done some tests last year but didnt note the date I removed the exposed sheet I had taped to a highly sun-exposed window. It was at least 3 months of exposure. All the swabs faded but not to oblivion. But actual writing is still very legible. Ill post a scan tomorrow.

 

Id love to see them! Sounds like they arent suitable for art though

[Intensity]

Souboku and Seiboku should be pretty lightfast, as would be platinum Carbon Black. Platinum Sepia pigment ink is NOT lightfast. Not all pigment inks are lightfast, unfortunately, while some dye inks are. Varies ink-to-ink.

[Candlejackstraw]

Souboku and Seiboku should be pretty lightfast, as would be platinum Carbon Black. Platinum Sepia pigment ink is NOT lightfast. Not all pigment inks are lightfast, unfortunately, while some dye inks are. Varies ink-to-ink.

Ugh!!! Platinum pigment brun sepia is not lightfast?! Could have sworn I saw that somewhere.

 

Blah!

[Intensity]

Unfortunately it is not. I've found my test pages. Here is the test page that I stored in a closed notebook (and on which I had done water resistance tests on the right side). Paper is Tomoe River 52g, dip pen and cotton swab smears. These were made over a year ago, and you can see some interesting color shifting in Platinum Khaki Black writing for some reason that wasn't there when I first put these together. Some is more of the warm brown like the transformed post-writing Sepia Black and some is almost greenish like the wet Sepia Black before it dries.

 

 

Here is another 52g Tomoe River sheet with writing made at the same time -- this one was taped to a window that had a lot of sun exposure for probably around 3 months. Could be longer. Unfortunately I did not take note of when I took it down. Initially the soaked cotton ball smears looked identical on the first sheet and second sheet - same concentration and color intensity. You can see here that while the smears have faded, the actual fountain pen writing to the right of Platinum Khaki Black fared pretty well, for some reason. Perhaps enough ink on the page gives sufficient IG content and enough of more stable components to be more fading resistant. The paler areas fade easily. If you're going to do watercolor-style drawing with these inks, you will see significant fading. Platinum Pigment Sepia definitely fades.

 

 

And finally this is just a reference sheet (stored in a closed notebook) made on Rhodia dot pad paper:

 

Edited September 2, 2019 by Intensity

[Mech-for-i]

archival / permanent ink is not the same as lightfast ink and in fact most IG ink could be termed not lightfast as far as the color part goes, but you cn say its lightfast iif you are talking about the IG part of it ; even lightfast ink used for industrial purpose had limitation .. and that is why true lightfast requirement usually entitled coating the finished work ( artist supply can sell you various type ) and particular storage. Its just nature and physics / chemistry at work ; the only real lightfast ink was and still is traditional Carbon ink cause you are looking at actual Carbon particles and of course they are Black alright no matter what

[BaronWulfraed]

One wonders if http://www.winsornewton.com/na/shop/inks-and-drawing/calligraphy-inks might not be a candidate

 

these inks are made in 18 lightfast colours with carefully chosen pigments to ensure colour brilliance.

 

suitable for dip-pens, fountain pens, technical pens and airbrushes

[inkstainedruth]

One wonders if http://www.winsornewton.com/na/shop/inks-and-drawing/calligraphy-inks might not be a candidate

 

I don't know enough about those. Only that I would not trust them to use in a fountain pen except for *maybe* the Osmiroid India ink pen I have (or possibly a Pilot Parallel, but I don't own any of those) -- in spite of what it says on the W&N boxes.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[Candlejackstraw]

Does anyone know of any lists, or have a list of fountain pen inks that are lightfast?

 

The noodler bulletproof/eternal are definately acceptable for art...right?

[Candlejackstraw]

Unfortunately it is not. I've found my test pages. Here is the test page that I stored in a closed notebook (and on which I had done water resistance tests on the right side). Paper is Tomoe River 52g, dip pen and cotton swab smears. These were made over a year ago, and you can see some interesting color shifting in Platinum Khaki Black writing for some reason that wasn't there when I first put these together. Some is more of the warm brown like the transformed post-writing Sepia Black and some is almost greenish like the wet Sepia Black before it dries.

 

 

Here is another 52g Tomoe River sheet with writing made at the same time -- this one was taped to a window that had a lot of sun exposure for probably around 3 months. Could be longer. Unfortunately I did not take note of when I took it down. Initially the soaked cotton ball smears looked identical on the first sheet and second sheet - same concentration and color intensity. You can see here that while the smears have faded, the actual fountain pen writing to the right of Platinum Khaki Black fared pretty well, for some reason. Perhaps enough ink on the page gives sufficient IG content and enough of more stable components to be more fading resistant. The paler areas fade easily. If you're going to do watercolor-style drawing with these inks, you will see significant fading. Platinum Pigment Sepia definitely fades.

 

 

And finally this is just a reference sheet (stored in a closed notebook) made on Rhodia dot pad paper:

 

Thank you so much for the swatches!!!

[A Smug Dill]

Does anyone know of any lists, or have a list of fountain pen inks that are lightfast?

Not me.

 

However, I do believe there is adequate source data, by way of fade tests published by various forum members on FPN over the years, for whoever is interested in having such a list (for decision-making tasks at hand and future reference) to compile one of reasonable reliability himself/herself. I don't know if anyone has actually done so; but if no-one has, then it just indicates to me there isn't sufficient interest, drive or need.

 

The noodler bulletproof/eternal are definately acceptable for art...right?

What is your criteria and/or requirements "for art"? Noodler's Blue Ghost is supposed to be bulletproof, but in my experience it doesn't stand up too well to a two-hour soak in clean, room-temperature water. That sort of thing makes it difficult to trust what the manufacturer claims in using such adjectives as shorthand labels for its inks' characteristics.

[Candlejackstraw]

Not me.

 

However, I do believe there is adequate source data, by way of fade tests published by various forum members on FPN over the years, for whoever is interested in having such a list (for decision-making tasks at hand and future reference) to compile one of reasonable reliability himself/herself. I don't know if anyone has actually done so; but if no-one has, then it just indicates to me there isn't sufficient interest, drive or need.

 

 

 

What is your criteria and/or requirements "for art"? Noodler's Blue Ghost is supposed to be bulletproof, but in my experience it doesn't stand up too well to a two-hour soak in clean, room-temperature water. That sort of thing makes it difficult to trust what the manufacturer claims in using such adjectives as shorthand labels for its inks' characteristics.

Im at home sick today, so hopefully I make sense .

 

Ive been looking for inks that I can use for drawing and hanging the results on the wall (not in sunlight)

 

I found a google docs that was compiled by this forum, i think it was called results on summer sun tests? And it kind of ranks some results and has some photos of the before and after sheets. But not all the sheets are uploaded? I believe it was compiled by a Ms Amber lady, whos avatar is a comic ghost?

 

Anywho, Im really not concerned about water resistance, dont currently have a desire for watercolor over the sketches (I do do watercolor and oil though)

 

I mainly want inks that are lightfast that I can use in either a fountain pen, or just a glass dip pen.

 

Maybe I may have to look into just dip inks or acyrlic inks and look at drawing calligraphy nibs. However Im left handed and recall alot of scratchiness when I used them in college for pen and ink drawings.