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Variable Line Widths.


mathias

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My only fountain pen is a large Sailor Pro Gear with a stock broad nib. I am pleased on all accounts but one: The line width changes from page to page. It varies between what I would consider a broad line to a very fine line. Does anyone have some helpful tips for me? Or is this to be expected from a fountain pen?

 

Some information that might be useful to you:

  • Ink: Sailor Blue.
  • Paper: Rhodia Webnotebook (90 g/sm) or Oxford Optik paper (90 g/sm).
  • No changes have been done to the nib or the pen.
  • Ink flow is nice. No skipping, no hard starts.
  • My grip and the angle towards the paper remains unchanged.
  • I have disassembled the pen, rinsed it thoroughly and flossed the tines. Everything seems to be in perfect order.
  • The pen has behaved like this ever since I got it last month.
Edited by mathias
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This could be hand oil on the page. Oil from your skin will stop ink getting to the page. Try putting another piece of paper under your writing arm and hand while you write and see if that helps.

 

Edit: This is definitely not expected behaviour. A normal bold nib should write a consistent line width at all times.

Edited by loganrah
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This could be hand oil on the page. Oil from your skin will stop ink getting to the page. Try putting another piece of paper under your writing arm and hand while you write and see if that helps.

 

Edit: This is definitely not expected behaviour. A normal bold nib should write a consistent line width at all times.

I have excluded hand oils being the issue, as I have tried writing with plastic gloves on brand new paper. Edited by mathias
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The angle between the nib and the paper is the reason.

If you hold your pen at 90 degrees it will write finer than when you hold near parallel to the paper.

This is particular to sailor stock Nibs especially the B.

This geometry of the tip is even accentuated with the nagita tori which I dont own.

Line width can vary dramatically with different papers and inks. But you already know that.

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The angle between the nib and the paper is the reason.

If you hold your pen at 90 degrees it will write finer than when you hold near parallel to the paper.

This is particular to sailor stock Nibs especially the B.

This geometry of the tip is even accentuated with the nagita tori which I dont own.

Line width can vary dramatically with different papers and inks. But you already know that.

That is interesting. I'll report back after writing for a while with a 90 degree angle.
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I suspect it it the angle as well. You can do quick experiment by controlling the angle with your wrist and then compare how the angle would impact: right/left strokes , up/down strokes +/- 45 strokes.

 

The line width variations should show up in this test. Also, you get the extra benefit of being able to identify any tines alignment, uneven tines, scratchy angles, skip angles ...etc.

 

 

If you look at the nib with a loupe, it should have nib tip curvature that matches what you see from the writing test.

 

Basically at some angles the tip would look flatter and at others it will be narrower.

 

All this assumes we are not twisting the wrist as this usually result in skipping and a different nib curvature characteristics.

 

In aviation terms, we are experimenting with the Pitch angle (0 at paper to 90 being normal to paper) and keeping both the Roll, and Yaw angles constant and preferably zero.

Edited by salmasry
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Could it be that it starts out with a generous ink flow and so puts down a thick line, but then the ink flow slowly starts to wane as you write and the line slims down? I've had pens that will will write very wet for a paragraph then then start to get dryer as the feed starts supplying less ink.

 

Or could the line be different from the left page to the right, due to a difference in arm position?

 

Some papers are coated differently on one side than the other, in which case the ink could behave differently on one side than the other; that could account for the difference you're seeing?

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Could it be that it starts out with a generous ink flow and so puts down a thick line, but then the ink flow slowly starts to wane as you write and the line slims down? I've had pens that will will write very wet for a paragraph then then start to get dryer as the feed starts supplying less ink.

 

 

 

I think this happens to me as well. Do you know the reason that causes this and how to mitigate it?

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I have found that certain nibs have a "stub-like" quality to them, i.e. the downstrokes are broader than the lateral strokes, although this doesn't sound like what's going on for you, since the variation occurs across different pages. I was going to suggest that lotion on your hands might be an issue (in addition to the oil thing), but if you wore gloves, then I doubt that's what's going on!

My gut feeling is that it's a problem with the pen-ink combination, or that the feed can't keep up with your writing speed (assuming you write quickly, or the feed is just a little slower than you are). I think I have experienced the same thing with a couple of different pens, and it has always been a "sluggish" feed. That said, I have almost zero experience with Sailor Pens, and literally no experience with Sailor inks. In my experience, if the feed is running dry, the pen will write especially wet for the first line, then become dryer, rather than being ok for a whole page. If you suspect it's the ink, then I would consider adding some distilled water to dilute it a bit. I have owned a couple of ink bottles that were way too dry, probably because they sat in storage for a long time before I purchased them, and I got an effect similar to what you have described. If you try this, I recommend doing it with a small amount of ink, in one of those little ink sample vials. As always, the first step is to try a different ink, before getting too crazy. Your pen might just prefer wetter inks (Noodler's Black, Liberty's Elysium, Rome Burning, Apache Sunset, Red-Black, Gruene Cactus Eel, etc.). I have a couple of cheap knock-off pens that write very well with Noodler's inks, and I always test a dry writer with these before trying any modifications. You mentioned that your writing angle is consistent, so I disagree with the other posters that this is the cause of the problem. It sounds like the nib is tuned properly. I would bet money that the ink is too dry for this particular pen, especially if it seems scratchier or grabs the paper more when the line width gets thinner.

If you read this whole thing, then I congratulate you lol.

Best of luck to you.

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The angle between the nib and the paper is the reason.

If you hold your pen at 90 degrees it will write finer than when you hold near parallel to the paper.

This is particular to sailor stock Nibs especially the B.

This geometry of the tip is even accentuated with the nagita tori which I dont own.

Line width can vary dramatically with different papers and inks. But you already know that.

I do believe that different pens can write better at specific angles. Are you saying these pens should be held vertically? I don't think the OP is varying his/her writing angle. Regardless, I have never encountered a fountain pen that was designed to write at such an angle, except maybe those with fude nibs. Still, I don't know this pen, so my skepticism might be misplaced. I don't mean to sound confrontational, I am just here to learn and share :)

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I think this happens to me as well. Do you know the reason that causes this and how to mitigate it?

I assumed it was just a feed that was not wet enough with the given ink for the nib, but I couldn't say for sure. Other than switching inks, I've seen people write about widening feed channels with a knife but I haven't tried it so I can't vouch for the idea.
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I assumed it was just a feed that was not wet enough with the given ink for the nib, but I couldn't say for sure. Other than switching inks, I've seen people write about widening feed channels with a knife but I haven't tried it so I can't vouch for the idea.

 

 

Thanks

 

I was under the impression that this is different than the general feed problem, which I assumed will make the pen dry all the time.

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I was under the impression that this is different than the general feed problem, which I assumed will make the pen dry all the time.

 

You might be right, I don't really know.

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You might be right, I don't really know.

 

Not necessarily. The feed might buffer a lot of ink over time. Once you start writing, this ink is released resulting in a broader than usual line. Once the surplus of ink is depleted, the pen writes it's natural line and that doesn't need to feel dry at all. Of course, the pen shouldn't fill the fins of the feed with surplus ink in the first place.

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Thank you to everyone for helpful responses. I'm afraid I can't tell exactly what the solution was, but after being mindful of hand oils, angle in relation to paper and varying paper coating I feel like things are better. I have included a writing sample of a page with consistent line width.

 

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Edited by mathias
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I've never tried a broad Sailor nib but that looks even thinner than my Pro Gear M (21k); when I got it, it wrote thin and ink came out very light; I pressed a little bit very gently on the tines and it became wetter and closer to its size; there is a risk of messing or even springing the tines.

"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt."

 

B. Russell

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I've never tried a broad Sailor nib but that looks even thinner than my Pro Gear M (21k); when I got it, it wrote thin and ink came out very light; I pressed a little bit very gently on the tines and it became wetter and closer to its size; there is a risk of messing or even springing the tines.

 

Yes, it does write thin for a broad. I'm really not satisfied with it.

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Sailor B nib are at best close to a western M, they are nice nibs though, so don't get rid of it just yet, give it a good chance.

For a real western broad get a cheaper pen with a nice B, Pelikan M200 and the standard steel B is a good starting point.

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Sailor B nib are at best close to a western M, they are nice nibs though, so don't get rid of it just yet, give it a good chance.

For a real western broad get a cheaper pen with a nice B, Pelikan M200 and the standard steel B is a good starting point.

 

I won't be getting rid of it, but it's frustrating how inconsistently it performs. I have now tried adjusting it slightly in an attempt to make it write wetter and a little broader. Will post a new writing sample later.

Edited by mathias
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