Advice Regarding Naginata Togi Nib

[seimodern]

Hi all,

I am in Europe and found a great store that carries what I understand to be Sailor's most recent issue of the Naginata Togi nibs. The pen seems to be the same size as a Sailor 1911 large in black/rhodium, but has "Sailor special nib" (or something to that effect) imprinted on the cap band.

 

I realize this is asking a lot, but I was hoping for input from people who may already own a Naginata Togi nib.

My difficulty in deciding is two-fold:

 

1) price

Is this a nib that you would be willing to spread yourself a little thin to buy? It seems like a decent, very reasonable price for what it is (ca. 600-650 USD after currency conversion), but it is definitely beyond my comfort zone. While I can swing it without starving, it will also put a bit of pressure on my budget and leave me with less margin than I would like.

 

From what I can tell online, these nibs are not that easy to come by; in fact, Sailor also seems to be discouraging retailers from selling them online. (If they were easy to come by, then no problem... I would just save up and buy one later; but there is one in front of me now, and I wonder if this is my only chance?)

 

2) assuming you think the nib _is_ worth a little bit of financial discomfort, then do you have recommendations on the MF vs M vs B?

 

From what I have been able to piece together online, a lot of people prefer the MF because it shows more line variation. (That said, I usually gravitate towards broad juicy nibs.)

 

When I tried them out in the store, I was immediately drawn to the Naginata Broad. At the same time, it seemed like the writing from the medium had a bit more character. Among other things I loved that I could rotate the nib to the left (oblique wise) and it still wrote beautifully, and maybe even with some of the qualities that some oblique nibs I own can give (sort of a thinner downstroke and wider sidestroke).

 

The broad was my initial inclination, but I worry that maybe it's not that different from other broads I already own (eg Pelikan 600 broad).

 

If you happen to own the Naginata broad, do you find it to have a unique quality in terms of its line? Or do you feel that it comes closer to a superb but not particularly unique broad?

 

I apologise in advance for drawing others into my own internal indecision, especially since financial matters are naturally a very personal thing, as are perceptions of value.

 

That said, the financial stretch is nevertheless part of the struggle, and so I would very much love to know whether those who own one think that the nib is special enough to warrant investment even on a tight-ish budget.

 

Thanks so much for any experiences or advice you might be willing to share!

Edited August 15, 2019 by seimodern

[Doug C]

I have the MF and it is a great writer but WAY too broad and fat for my writing. Even holding the nib straight up is marginal for me, and I really couldn't write that way.

 

Other than that, it is okay, but had I not gotten a great deal a few years ago, I would not pay a premium for it.

 

It does sound like your writing is a bit larger than mine.

[inkstainedruth]

A friend of mine has a pen with a Naginati toga nib, but couldn't find it when I wanted to try a zoom nib. And I didn't want to try a nib that was so expensive. For the time (and my budget) being, I settled for a zoom (which I gather is the poor man's version.

Is Sailor even making them again? I thought I'd read that the guy who did those nibs for them had died, and that Sailor hadn't found anyone to replace him.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[seimodern]

Thanks so much, Doug C.--this is exactly what I needed to hear! ("Other than that, it is okay, but had I not gotten a great deal a few years ago, I would not pay a premium for it.")

And inkstainedruth--I could be wrong, but think I read that his son has carried on the tradition, but with his own touches. Perhaps others know more?

[zaddick]

The younger Nahahara worked along side his father for many years. There are also a few other people who make the Naginata Togi grinds. The younger Nagahara is retiring from Dailor soon and is doing his own nib grinding independently.

 

I like the Naginata Togi grinds. I have all the widths and the best for line variation is western writing is indeed the MF. The Broad provides a luxurious wetness not found in other Sailor nibs.

 

All that said I would suggest for the money you get someone to grind you a Naginata Togi style on a Jowo nib. For about $80 or so (grind, nib, shipping) you will have a similar experience that you can swap into a lot of pens.

 

For what they want now for the specialty nibs I'd want a cross point or a cross Concord nib as those are more just duplicated via a grind.

 

You can let me k ow of you have follow up quesrions.

 

Also, you can order from La Courone du Comte during one of their 20% off sales. They will not have the pen is stock but can get it at the lower price.

[pepsiplease69]

I tried one of these nibs at a pen show once. My gut response was that it failed to impress me enough to pull the trigger.

 

My writing has evolved remarkably since the time I had first tried this nib, so maybe with a new perspective, I might find a new appreciation for it. But not enough to shell out truckloads of cash.

 

I tend to keep things simple. You want to write italic, use an italic nib. If you want to practice copperplate, use a flex nib. You want broad cross strokes and fine downstrokes, theres the architect grind for that.

 

This particular nib attempts to be in more than one place at the same time, which, subconsciously to me, seems a bit gimmicky and I become leery that it will be mediocre at both being oblique as well as architect.

 

If you tried it, and for you it had the wow-factor enough, buy it and be happy.

 

Everybodys perspective is different, and for me it wasnt too spectacular.

[nekomuffchu]

Instead of outlaying a $600 for a Naginata Togi, you could always have one of your B or BB nibs ground by Michael Masuyama in Los Angeles. I had this done to my Pilot 845 B nib for $50 and another $25 for expedited shipping. This is a far more cost effective option and you'll have a nib ground by one of the great nibmeisters.

Edited August 17, 2019 by nekomuffchu

[inkstainedruth]

I tried one of these nibs at a pen show once. My gut response was that it failed to impress me enough to pull the trigger.

 

My writing has evolved remarkably since the time I had first tried this nib, so maybe with a new perspective, I might find a new appreciation for it. But not enough to shell out truckloads of cash.

 

I tend to keep things simple. You want to write italic, use an italic nib. If you want to practice copperplate, use a flex nib. You want broad cross strokes and fine downstrokes, theres the architect grind for that.

 

This particular nib attempts to be in more than one place at the same time, which, subconsciously to me, seems a bit gimmicky and I become leery that it will be mediocre at both being oblique as well as architect.

 

If you tried it, and for you it had the wow-factor enough, buy it and be happy.

 

Everybodys perspective is different, and for me it wasnt too spectacular.

 

This is why, when I had the option to buy a zoom nib last spring, I elicited feedback on here from people who had both the zoom and the Sailor "music" nib to see if it was worth getting either now (Cult Pens still had the Purple Cosmos Pro-Gear Slim pens in stock, and most of the nib widths available, except for IIRC, the F/M). Then found out that a friend of mine who collects Sailor Pens had a zoom nib (he also had a pen with the "music" nib on it but couldn't find the pen). My husband and I drove up to his place, took him out to dinner, and I got to play with the zoom nib (I had been concerned that I wouldn't be able to get used to changing the pen angle to the paper easily enough).

Hmmmm. I should put that pen back into rotation. Thinking that it would be interesting to see how a really wet ink like Iroshizuku Yama-guri would do in it....

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[BaaadSheepie]

So, while I love the N-MF nib, I have to admit I don't think I'd pay $600 for one.

 

I think I found something on eBay for about $300, but that took a lot of hunting...

 

You could get a Zoom nib and have it reground (or not)... this also has the advantage of being available on some different colours and shapes of Sailor pen, rather than the black large Profit that the Naginata togi nibs are usually sold on.

 

(if that matters to you!)

[tosakarinn]

As many others have said, if youre just looking for a Naginata, there are many options. Mike Masuyama is who i would trust in the US, considering that he worked at Sailor before, under the legendary Kawaguchi san. Theres a university kid called Pactagon on instagram who is offering it for around $50USD, but his are a bit scratchy.

 

Mr Nagahara jr will be at the SF Show and he does Naginata regrinds for around 80USD.

 

Ive also done Naginatas on Pilot Broads.

 

You have many choices, unless you are very attached to the look of the nib.

[cll]

I have the Naginata MF and I love how well it writes even as a daily writer. It does write more broad than the usual Japanese M. I love how ‘regular’ the size of the Naginata holds and how the pen does not stand out.

 

This nib is definitely one of my top 3 writers besides the KOP and the Custom Urushi. It is that good to me, but that is just my personal preference.

[Mech-for-i]

is the nib a great piece of craftsmanship, yes it is .. does it really worth that much extra ; well to be honest, I say no , even though I do write Asian languages ( which is what its primary intent ) , part of that price is about buying the exclusiveness and branding ; and whole lot of marketing. Like many had stated there are options and its not just about custom grind, but also of usage , the nib is of little advantage over a normal nib when used for daily penmanship / cursive .. you would be better off with just a normal FM /M nib ; a flex nib of some sort wuld be far more suited to calligraphy ( latin based language ) , and of course various other type of nib for different kind of writing.

 

In the end, unless you happen to be routinely writing Asian languages and had the time, and technique to employ the needed skill, the nib would be just a great show piece, a collectable ...

Edited August 24, 2019 by Mech-for-i

[peroride]

When would you want that? is a recurring question I ask myself in this hobby.

 

For those considering the famed Naginata Togi

 

it may help to take this test from Bruno Taut:

https://estilofilos.blogspot.com/2019/03/the-case-of-naginata-iv-writing.html

 

As an evolving newbie in this hobby, I too fell in love with the brand marketing of this cool sounding nib that could seemingly perform samurai feats of supreme wonder. Broad strokes, whisper chops, attacking paper with naginata budo vigor in contorted angles, my masterful strokes of togi could strike awe in veteran penmen like Micheal Sull even if I held it between my toes and without breaking a sweat

 

I bought a Zoom as a placeholder when Sailor shifted to the Special Nib program and researched in fanatical seal to bide my time.

 

Then I discovered something called italic along with remembering that tools are only as good as the user and my desire was abated.

 

I admired those who can craft and make full use of this special grind but I found over time that it is not for me.

 

Maybe you will too?

[hellokloh]

Mr Nagahara (the son) was at the SF Pen Show this last weekend -- he was offering Naginata-togi grinds for $90. I got one on a Parker 51, and another on a Pilot C nib. Lots of fun, but realistically I don't write kanji so they're kind of wasted on me.

 

For $600... definitely not. As others have said here, get the grind on another pen (just try to get a pen with lots of tipping, like the Pilot C or a Sailor Zoom) to start with.

[BlueJ]

I believe Pablo at FPNibs in Spain can approximate several of the Sailor specialty grinds starting with a Jowo M or B (steel or gold.) I know he does Zoom, architect and Waverly grinds, all of which have some similarity to NT. Pablo and Esther are excellent for customer service and value.

[A Smug Dill]

Lots of fun, but realistically I don't write kanji so they're kind of wasted on me.

 

I like writing Chinese hanzi (or Japanese kanji) in the kaishu script, but I just cannot understand how a nib designed to put down noticeably broader horizontal strokes than vertical strokes would be conducive or beneficial to that particular application.

 

So, I didn't buy the Naginata Togi nibs several years ago when they were more easily available and a whole lot cheaper, and won't be doing so now. (I bought a pen fitted with a Naginata Concord nib around then, and last year paid much much more for a pen with a Naginata Concord Emperor nib, though.)

[dftr]

On 8/15/2019 at 5:31 PM, zaddick said:

The younger Nahahara worked along side his father for many years. There are also a few other people who make the Naginata Togi grinds. The younger Nagahara is retiring from Dailor soon and is doing his own nib grinding independently.

 

I like the Naginata Togi grinds. I have all the widths and the best for line variation is western writing is indeed the MF. The Broad provides a luxurious wetness not found in other Sailor nibs.

 

All that said I would suggest for the money you get someone to grind you a Naginata Togi style on a Jowo nib. For about $80 or so (grind, nib, shipping) you will have a similar experience that you can swap into a lot of pens.

 

For what they want now for the specialty nibs I'd want a cross point or a cross Concord nib as those are more just duplicated via a grind.

 

You can let me k ow of you have follow up quesrions.

 

Also, you can order from La Courone du Comte during one of their 20% off sales. They will not have the pen is stock but can get it at the lower price.

Hello zaddick. Iknow this is an old post.  I was wondering why mf gives more line variation than a broad.¿. If i send a pen to nibmeister is it better to do a broad and have them grind it down to med/fine.  
 

does this also apply to architect nibs?

[A Smug Dill]

6 hours ago, dftr said:

I was wondering why mf gives more line variation than a broad.

 

A Medium-Fine nib has a finer point than that on a Broad nib, on the narrowest part of the tipping material. That makes the ratio between the thinnest and thicker (i.e. not talking about deliberately pushing the boundaries to get the thickest line possible from a pen stroke, including by wielding the pen in an unnatural manner for writing) lines larger when writing with the former, and thus the line variation is more pronounced.

[dftr]

ah thanks.  I was thinking it the same as an italic but rotated so the thin lines are vertical and the thick horizontal.  

[A Smug Dill]

6 minutes ago, dftr said:

I was thinking it the same as an italic but rotated so the thin lines are vertical and the thick horizontal.  

 

The nib width grade (of MF, B, etc.) usually refers to the traverse width of the contact surface, not the longitudinal length of the tipping material; and there is no single, perfect straight edge along the underside of the tipping on a Naginata Togi nib.

 

https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=naginata+togi+nib+geometry