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Frustration At Current Pelikan Nibs


jaytaylor

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It looks like "M815 Metal Stripe M nib...perfect because I availed of the retailers' option to tune, check and smooth it before delivery" is counted as a potential dud, so technically that'd be 4 out of 7 if so, and 3 out of 7 otherwise.

“I admit it, I'm surprised that fountain pens are a hobby. ... it's a bit like stumbling into a fork convention - when you've used a fork all your life.” 

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3 dud nibs across 2 M1000/M1005s

M805 Ocean swirl 1 dud, swapped to a functional

2 M815s OK out of the box

M205 Demo OK out of the box

 

So across the 4 pens I have kept, there's one bad nib but the 2 pens I returned had 3 faulty nibs.

 

4 bad nibs out of 8 by my count (counting nibs not pens)

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17 modern pens with different nib sizes, among them 1 m805, 2 m6xx, 2 4xx, all the others are m2xx. All of them wrote perfectly but one, a m205 F with baby bottom. So, 16 good working nibs and only one faulty, I am very satisfied.

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My ridiculously overpriced M600 from 2 years ago is baby-bottomed and slightly hard starting and Chartpak told me it was a perfectly serviceable nib and sent it back to me. No offer to exchange/replace. Eventually I'll send it to someone for work but for now I'm just grumpy every time I use it for any period of time. I use it with very "wet" ink and on very absorbent paper so I don't lose my mind. I have ten other Pelikans so, it isn't as if I don't have experience with the brand. And some 50 FPs in general that I've been using for 25 years now so...not as if I don't know how to hold and use an FP.

 

Meh. sorry to just splatter this here but I'm in a mood.

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17 modern pens with different nib sizes, among them 1 m805, 2 m6xx, 2 4xx, all the others are m2xx. All of them wrote perfectly but one, a m205 F with baby bottom. So, 16 good working nibs and only one faulty, I am very satisfied.

 

~ chravagni:

 

That's impressive!

Thank you for describing your experience.

I'd be satisfied with such an overall positive experience.

Tom K.

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My ridiculously overpriced M600 from 2 years ago is baby-bottomed and slightly hard starting and Chartpak told me it was a perfectly serviceable nib and sent it back to me. No offer to exchange/replace. Eventually I'll send it to someone for work but for now I'm just grumpy every time I use it for any period of time. I use it with very "wet" ink and on very absorbent paper so I don't lose my mind. I have ten other Pelikans so, it isn't as if I don't have experience with the brand. And some 50 FPs in general that I've been using for 25 years now so...not as if I don't know how to hold and use an FP.

 

Meh. sorry to just splatter this here but I'm in a mood.

 

That's a very disappointing response from a reputable seller (afaik)! No wonder you're upset. I'd be livid.

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That's a very disappointing response from a reputable seller (as far as I know)!

Chartpak isn't a seller though, but the North American regional distributor for Pelikan, if I understand the situation in the US correctly.

 

No wonder you're upset. I'd be livid.

I'd be too! There's a Raymond Weil watch that I just don't wear, in spite of the price I paid for it, for much the same reason: I took it to the regional distributor's office and workshop, and (after the staff replaced a defective minor part) they claimed that the stopwatch hand not pointing precisely at the 12-o'-clock mark upon being reset is not a defect. That makes me grumpy every time I look at the watch.

 

In Australia, at least, the retailer — and not the manufacturer, or its regional distributor as the company's authorised representative — has primary responsibility for providing remedy for failures to satisfy consumer guarantees (such as warranty claims for defective products). However, if the retailer, manufacturer or distributor can authoritatively state that the product in question is not defective, then it can be pretty difficult for a customer to "force their hand" in getting a refund, exchange or repair at the business' cost. Subjective customer satisfaction is not 'guaranteed' or the concern of consumer law here, and left to companies to manage in the name of their own business interests, so something like Chartpak's response to @KCat would cut off some avenues of recourse.

I endeavour to be frank and truthful in what I write, show or otherwise present, when I relate my first-hand experiences that are not independently verifiable; and link to third-party content where I can, when I make a claim or refute a statement of fact in a thread. If there is something you can verify for yourself, I entreat you to do so, and judge for yourself what is right, correct, and valid. I may be wrong, and my position or say-so is no more authoritative and carries no more weight than anyone else's here.

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This thread is depressing... I do want an M600 or 605 but I also want a good nib. (Well I really like the size of the M800 but find it a bit top heavy due to the bit of metal.)

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Set aside $40-50 (or less in some cases) for nib work for well-reviewed nibmeisters, and you'll get an amazing nib that's even better than a well-tuned stock nib. In the end it's worth it. Alternatively there are vendors that offer nib checking and tuning prior to sending, or even custom grinds prior to sending. If you are buying at high savings from someplace on a sale, consider the extra nib work investment as a worthwhile upgrade to a pen while still paying less than MSRP.

“I admit it, I'm surprised that fountain pens are a hobby. ... it's a bit like stumbling into a fork convention - when you've used a fork all your life.” 

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I'm dreaming of an 800 Stresemann with a Bock Ti nib. A little bit will have to come off the back end. It'll look quite handsome, and be delightfully soft.

Add lightness and simplicate.

 

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Set aside $40-50 (or less in some cases) for nib work for well-reviewed nibmeisters, and you'll get an amazing nib that's even better than a well-tuned stock nib. In the end it's worth it. Alternatively there are vendors that offer nib checking and tuning prior to sending, or even custom grinds prior to sending. If you are buying at high savings from someplace on a sale, consider the extra nib work investment as a worthwhile upgrade to a pen while still paying less than MSRP.

 

 

+1 Great advice.

"Inspiration exists, but it has to find you working." -Pablo Picasso


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Set aside $40-50 (or less in some cases) for nib work for well-reviewed nibmeisters,

 

-1

For a high priced pen (or any product for that matter) you shouldn't have to perform any "work" to make the product perform as intended/sold.

 

My Pelikans (purchased new or used) have never required any corrections or adjustments to the nibs to make them work as intended.

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Right, for anything in the realm of normal writing position, for what you're paying for a new Pelikan, it should work from the box.

 

I suppose there are some ways of holding a pen and writing that are so odd that you'd need a custom nib straight off. I've seen a few people hold pens on very sharp, oblique angles based on how they learned to write or because of injury. You might need a custom nib for those cases. But normal writing, should work from the box.

 

Enough people today expect the pens to write as smoothly as a rollerball - that you have the liquid ink and the fountain pen tip, but almost no friction "feel". So the manufacturers over-polish and you get the hard-starting issue. I have a modern Conklin Glider that was especially bad in that regard. Tweaking the flow and paper can help fix a minor case of over-polish, but if the problem is bad enough, you have to re-work the nib to the point that you have contact between the ink and the paper much more closely. It's actually a pain to fix if it's bad enough.

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But normal writing, should work from the box.

 

Enough people today expect the pens to write as smoothly as a rollerball - that you have the liquid ink and the fountain pen tip, but almost no friction "feel".

I don't have a problem with kinaesthetic feedback from a nib; in fact, I prefer (some of) that to a complete absence. What I do have a problem with, especially since Pelikan charges an "EF tax" on most models on the basis that it takes more work on its part to make and tune an EF nib, is that it generally fails to deliver EF nibs that leave a narrow enough line with or without kinaesthetic feedback. Seriously, if it takes an extraordinary amount of effort for Pelikan to produce nibs that leave 0.4mm-wide lines, such that it "has to" charge more to recoup the extra labour costs, then its nib production capability is a joke. Charging me for a 0.3mm-or-narrower nib that writes superbly and without fail would be reasonable; but my experience with Pelikan gold EF nibs is that they write no finer, but most likely broader, than even gold EF nibs from Aurora and Lamy (which don't charge extra for EF nibs), never mind gold EF nibs from the Japanese Big Three manufacturers of fountain pens.

I endeavour to be frank and truthful in what I write, show or otherwise present, when I relate my first-hand experiences that are not independently verifiable; and link to third-party content where I can, when I make a claim or refute a statement of fact in a thread. If there is something you can verify for yourself, I entreat you to do so, and judge for yourself what is right, correct, and valid. I may be wrong, and my position or say-so is no more authoritative and carries no more weight than anyone else's here.

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I agree and I think as you use a fountain pen more and more, you appreciate a little bit of feedback in the nib more. But you've also got this fairly large segment who use the fountain pen only occasionally, use it more or less like a ballpoint or rollerball, and expect it to basically feel like an ultra-smooth rollerball. They complain or return the nib when it has any kind of feedback because it feels abnormal to them. The pen manufacturers probably deal with more of them than the hardcore people who expect a little give or a little feedback in the nib because they write with fountain pens all the time. The overpolishing issue a product of our times, I think. The vintage Pelikan nibs I've used never had overpolishing as an issue.

 

I also agree the modern Pelikan nibs run broad, especially the gold ones. The steel ones are a little closer to a standard, western nib. But the M400/4xx nibs I have are fines and I would characterize them as a "medium" in other brands. My wife has yet to try a Pelikan fine enough for her. She sticks to Pilot EF nibs.

Edited by Ray-Vigo
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Re: KCat post #124

You aren't being 'grumpy' & if you can't vent on this forum where else can you express your feelings when you didn't get what you expected for your hard-earned $?

 

If I had bought a M605 Stresemann Anthracite at £320 & found that it had issues that just should not be there I would be seriously p----d off too. If you are dropping that kind of dough (two weeks pay) then yes, you'd expect the seller to take a look at how the pen wrote before shipping and see that any issues were corrected.

 

I got a spare nib for a M200, just plain plated steel 'F' that I had to give the 'mesh treatment. The OEM was a 18K EF that was just horrific. I suspect that it needs the same treatment. You expect some 'tooth' with a really fine nib, but I have had Jinhao nibs that were far better & a Platinum 0.2mm EEF that is smoother.

 

Is it a matter that you have to pay over a certain price-point before the dealers inspect their pens and deal with the turkeys amongst the flock?

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My ridiculously overpriced M600 from 2 years ago is baby-bottomed and slightly hard starting and Chartpak told me it was a perfectly serviceable nib and sent it back to me. No offer to exchange/replace. Eventually I'll send it to someone for work but for now I'm just grumpy every time I use it for any period of time. I use it with very "wet" ink and on very absorbent paper so I don't lose my mind. I have ten other Pelikans so, it isn't as if I don't have experience with the brand. And some 50 FPs in general that I've been using for 25 years now so...not as if I don't know how to hold and use an FP.

 

Meh. sorry to just splatter this here but I'm in a mood.

Mike Masuyama is a master at changing grumpy face to smiling face. I gave my wife a vintage Parker Victory with stunning celluloid but the nib was a mess. Scratchy, skipped when it wasn't burping, burped when it wasn't skipping. It was beyond my expertise so off to Mike it went. My wife is delighted with the results. He did something similar for a couple of my pens. Linda Kennedy rescued my favorite nib (an M800 Binder Italifine) after it was (severely) damaged by one of our rescue cats (ungrateful beastie) who thought it was a toy while I was away from my desk momentarily. It's not like she didn't have a lot of other toys to play with...

 

An M600 is too nice a pen to let it make you grumpy. Good luck with it.

Dave Campbell
Retired Science Teacher and Active Pen Addict
Every day is a chance to reduce my level of ignorance.

fpn_1425200643__fpn_1425160066__super_pi

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So I have owned about 8 different Pelikans over the last decade and currently own 4 as I recently decided to sell off a lot of what I don't actually write with.. which leaves me with 3 M8xxs and one M2xx highlighter.

In general, the biggest issue I feel Pelikans have is flow.. specially the lack of it.
My most recent purchase was an M800 in fine and boy was that one was a real... ugh ... :excl: :angry: :gaah: .
I purchased it from amazon because I don't want to spend 200 dollars more to buy it from an approved retailer when I can buy it from a different approved retailer for less money.. being imported, ChartPak** was predictably not helpful. I have however gotten pretty decent with adjusting nibs.. well at least smoothing them out a bit or getting a nib to just put ink down.. though I make no claim to any kind of nibmeister status lol. So under the loupe, I could see the tine spacing at the tip was pretty tight and no light would shine through. The biggest issue I was having was the memory of the tines. I would put them apart with a brass shim only to have them pull themselves back together. (I could see the correct spacing with loupe and then check again after doing some test scribles and see it had returned back to it's prior shape for the most part (yes.. I fully cleaned and dried the nib lol). :wallbash:

Finally, I figured I would try to pull them apart and then dipping the nib in near boiling water and then cooling it off under the tap to temper it. I am pretty surprised it worked, figuring I would need a lot more heat to do this. Anyway.. here is the before and after writing sample. (After on the top right) https://imgur.com/a/3Nzecgk And do note - those low flow lines were done with a bit of pressure to prevent skipping, which was happening in other little test scribbles. and force it all open. A little micromesh massage and the nib was right as rain. (My day job is being a CPA, but if you are having pen issues and you don't want to wait 6 months to get your pen back.. i'd be happy to take a look at it).

 

As to why Pelikans have these issues in my assessment - Please Note - I am no engineer so this is all a guess.. We are all aware of how the nib and feed are secured together as one unit. IMO, the biggest issue this single unit construction can cause is that once assembled, the nib tines can be lot harder to adjust compared to say a Pilot or Sailor nib. While they can inspect the nibs, unless you are shining light through the tines, it can be difficult to see tine spacing in my experience.. I have to bring the nib up to a bright window to be able to clearly see the tine spacing. Having read through this thread, I saw that some people suggested overpolishing as the culprit, and I don't fully subscribe to that view: over-polishing can certainly make a tight tine problem worse, but the cause remains tine-spacing. I have had Pelikans smoother than two pieces of wet ice with no issues putting lines to paper.

As far as buying one - until such time as Pelikan Hannover sees fit to actually improve the quality control and install a machine that can more accurately see the tine spacing ... like Pilot does lol ... it might be wise for people wishing to purchase a Pelikan to write with it before you buy it. If you cannot do that, unless you are enough of an amateur nibmeister, you need to buy the pen from a vendor that will adjust it and get it all set up.. Nibs.com, Nibsmith, Appelboom, etc. I really do enjoy my Pelikans and consider when property adjusted anyway are simply wonderful writers easily in the company of Pilot and Sailor in terms of experience and feel. Just know what steps you might have to take to get the pen there lol.


**I remember when my M400 was run through the drier accidentally.. ChartPak replaced the nib for free even after I told them it was all my fault.. oh those were the days. Didn't even ask to see the receipt!

Edited by Penryn87
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Dry nibs on Pelikans have certainly not been the problem for me; just the reverse. But I've had plenty of Pilot, Sailor and Platinum pens that were too dry at first. Part of the challenge of making generalizations is sample size.

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Dry nibs on Pelikans have certainly not been the problem for me; just the reverse. But I've had plenty of Pilot, Sailor and Platinum pens that were too dry at first. Part of the challenge of making generalizations is sample size.

Yea absolutely. Everyone writes/holds the pen differently. What is super smooth to one person is a road full of pot holes to another. I think it is partially what is been lost in the new age of online retail. People cannot try out pens before the by them, let alone having them adjusted in the store (adjusting nibs is honestly not difficult, there are just very few people who do it anymore). Consequently, pens are now made to be butterballs to be able to usable with as many people as possible.

https://imgur.com/a/VsTdIZb So as it turns out, my digital microscope has a much higher resolution photo mode lol. Ugh.. this would have been helpful to know know about but anyway, this is a gallery of some of my pelikan nibs. You can see the tine spacing I am talking about.

Edited by Penryn87
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