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Posting Caps On Vintage Pens Can Damage The Cap -- So Don't Post?

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#41 Honeybadgers

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Posted 27 July 2019 - 23:30

Relating to some earlier comments here, there is no evidence that pens in general were designed to demand posting, vintage or modern, although some designs make it easier than others, gave more thought to those who wish to. Sometimes [lack of] length makes it invaluable for writing. Those with alternative views may take up the evidentiary burden in this thread. This has nothing to do with whether you like to post your pens.

 

 

Wait, pens aren't designed to be posted?

 

What about pens with O rings on the back to make them postable like the ensso minimilistica, or screw post like osprey or the TWSBI vac mini? or moonman wancai, or that mini penBBS pen...

 

Also quite a few pens, like the moonman wancai mini and ensso are abjectly unusable unposted.

 

I disagree with this statement entirely.

 

Some pens that can post were clearly not designed around the idea, like the TWSBI 580 or wing sung 698, but some are very, very deliberately made in such a way as to be posted

 

That was kind of one of the main reasons the cap band itself was even invented, to prevent caps from cracking when posting.


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#42 praxim

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Posted 27 July 2019 - 23:54

Not my point, Honeybadgers. I could also cite on your side the Aurora 88, one of whose improvements over its inspiration, the Parker 51, was to add a second clutch ring at the back of the pen to improve posting. Yet to many people it is more comfortable unposted*. What is possible and what is necessary are different things entirely.

 

The question addressed here is not whether posting is facilitated in the design (why would designers fail to cater for half of their market? Either way?) but whether posting is necessary to good pen balance for all (or at least the great majority of) users. The latter is the proposition I am addressing in the other thread referenced, and that can be met only by satisfying the balance criteria there. Your preference is inarguable, but for the rest you have merely talked about some postable pens. We could talk about unpostable pens too; irrelevant to the broader proposition.

 

* I am one of those people because I like a pen centre or forward weighted. A posted 88 is back-weighted. I hate that and it applies to all of my pens, especially pens which are longer, or heavy precious metal or lacquer, or with fancy-dancy caps.


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#43 Honeybadgers

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Posted 28 July 2019 - 01:57

Oh I getcha. I was missing half of the premise.

 

I follow now.


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#44 Rancho Gordo

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Posted 28 July 2019 - 02:40

I'm a rebel. I need a posted pen. I post them gently. But I would be so weird about not relaxing until the cap was back on. 
And I heard a story today about a pen rolling off the table and bouncing on its nib. A posted pen wouldn't roll like that. 



#45 A Smug Dill

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Posted 28 July 2019 - 02:54

And I heard a story today about a pen rolling off the table and bouncing on its nib. A posted pen wouldn't roll like that.

 
 
Only on the premise that the cap has a clip or 'pen-stopper' installed. A cylindrical cap without such protrusions may not effectively prevent the pen from rolling, whether the cap is screwed/snapped on covering the nib or posted on the end of the barrel.
 
But then, if one is setting down a fountain pen uncapped on the table, I don't see why it can't be set down next to the pen cap that has an anti-rolling protrusion. I find it hard to imagine that the user would be holding onto the cap (in his non-writing hand) but laying the pen down.

Let's give each other due respect, and approach discussion rigorously. I believe we're all peers and equals here as fellow hobbyists, with common interests in the acquisition and use of fountain pens, but no shared values and no obligation to offer each other moral support for one's narrative.

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#46 Honeybadgers

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Posted 28 July 2019 - 07:18

More pens should pull the moonman C1 trick of having a flat milled into the body. it looks nice, feels nice, and stops rolling.

 

 
 
Only on the premise that the cap has a clip or 'pen-stopper' installed. A cylindrical cap without such protrusions may not effectively prevent the pen from rolling, whether the cap is screwed/snapped on covering the nib or posted on the end of the barrel.
 
But then, if one is setting down a fountain pen uncapped on the table, I don't see why it can't be set down next to the pen cap that has an anti-rolling protrusion. I find it hard to imagine that the user would be holding onto the cap (in his non-writing hand) but laying the pen down.

 

 

It's an absent minded mistake, yes, but one that many, many people make.

 

I've never had it happen, but I've had a few near misses.


Edited by Honeybadgers, 28 July 2019 - 07:18.

Selling a boatload of restored, fairly rare, vintage Japanese gold nib pens, click here to see (more added as I finish restoring them)


#47 ISW_Kaputnik

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Posted 28 July 2019 - 07:19

Two of my three favorite vintage pens are inked right now, a Pelikan 140 and a Mabie Todd Swan 3150.  I post them both when writing with them because that is what feels comfortable and natural to me.  I'll probably ink my Parker Vacumatic some time in the next couple of weeks, and I'll post it too.  I do so gently, but I think of these as practical writing instruments, and they would be less practical if I couldn't follow my preferences for pens in general.

 

Any vintage pen that gets carried around with me will be posted.  I have to be a little careful with the Eversharp Skyline, as it's possible to catch the lever with the rim of the cap, due to the shape of the barrel.


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#48 A Smug Dill

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Posted 28 July 2019 - 07:52

I generally don't like posting the pen cap with my pens, but…


  • I have no idea how 'vintage' this Platinum pocket pen I bought on eBay is, but I'd certainly post the cap on the end of the barrel when writing with it (except that my fiancée has now taken it off me).

  • I also post the cap when I write with another vintage fountain pen (obviously made in or before 1970) I have.

  • The only other vintage fountain pen I have is a Sheaffer desk pen, so the question of posting the cap is a moot point with that one.


So I must conclude I'm more inclined to post the caps on my vintage pens than I am with my modern pens; out of around 200 modern pens, I'd post the cap on less than 20% of them.

 

Of course, nothing in 'vintage' implies that a pen is either fragile or precious.


Let's give each other due respect, and approach discussion rigorously. I believe we're all peers and equals here as fellow hobbyists, with common interests in the acquisition and use of fountain pens, but no shared values and no obligation to offer each other moral support for one's narrative.

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#49 Bo Bo Olson

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Posted 28 July 2019 - 11:34

A decade ago, many folks here did not like piston pens, claiming them back weighted for good balance.

The 800/1000 and a few vintage '50's MB's had brass works so were even more back weighted.

 

I was very surprised my standard sized MB 234 1/2 Deluxe had great balance....could be being thicker girthed than most of my pens helped.  It was brass back weighted and therefore sat lower in my hand than the others. That didn't matter....it had the best balance by a hair.

It was #1, #2 a thin medium long Geha 725. #3 standard sized P-75, #4 medium long 400NN...........three of the four were piston pens.

Could well be I was use to piston pens.

I now realize I'd not tested my P-51 in it's a nail so I don't use it. It is front heavy with that huge collector full of ink. :P

 

I don't insist that a pen sit only in one place in my hand....if the pen is long or heavier, I do let it rest lower...........if I move my thumb up or down on the body, the pen will rest higher or lower.....but again I don't use the cramped tripod.

 

By Forcing a pen to be at only one place.....the pressure needed to make sure the pen only sits in one place, will take away balance because of how hard a pen has to be held to keep it at the one place.

 

The Death Grip kills balance.

 

If a pen is allowed to rest where it will; do to length, weight it will have more of a chance to have balance, than forced into a ridged position of ignoring the make of the pen, be it light, short, long, heavy.....One Place does not fit all. A pen should rest, not be forced to be exactly at this or that angle. 

 

Then I only had 20 pens....I'd not dream of wasting so much time today, looking to see if I got 20 or 25 great top 5 balanced pens....having well over 70.... I expect flagships and top of the line to have better balance......and that is posted.

 

I can't help it most of the members started using Large pens to start with...mostly too big to post and real clunky when posted, so don't think post.

I can understand that, there are so very few Large pens that have great balance. The Snorkel is one....posted, not posted....it can be used...to take a note or two....not the way I'd think of using it to do any long writing with it....knowing that for me.....posted it is a superb pen.

I can't see making it a second class pen by not posting it for it's grand balance.


Edited by Bo Bo Olson, 28 July 2019 - 11:42.

German vintage '50-70 semi-flex stubs and those in oblique give the real thing in On Demand line variation. Modern Oblique is a waste of money for a shadow of line variation. Being too lazy to Hunt for affordable vintage oblique pens, lets you 'hunt' for line variation instead of having it.

www.nibs.com/blog/nibster-writes/nibs-germany & https://www.peter-bo...cts/nib-systems,

 

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#50 AoKiu

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Posted 28 July 2019 - 12:35

I don't post my pens unless it's really necessary with short pens like Pelikan 100/101, modern Parker Duofold Mini, Marlen Forme and Kaweco Sport.


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#51 AlohaJim

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Posted 28 July 2019 - 14:51

I have . . "longish" fingers. A vintage pen like a Skyline Eversharp has a short body. If there's no cap on it when writing, the back of it tends to fall into the web of my hand. So, maybe sometimes posting is just a practical necessity.

 

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#52 PaulS

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Posted 28 July 2019 - 15:22

my comment nearer the start of this thread about some 1920s pens that were provided - by the manufacturer - with threading on the last few mm. of the barrel terminal, shouldn't really I suppose be interpreted as a fact that makers were encouraging the public to post their caps  -  I'd suggest this feature was provided simply as an option for those folk who would want to do so.              That era didn't in the main offer caps with integral clips, so even with a posted cap you might still sit and watch as gravity took your pen floorward off the desk , unless you were savvy enough to fit an accommodation clip.

Most manufacturers are keen that their products should have some inbuilt obsolescence - albeit discreetly - after all the public should be encouraged to purchase as frequently as possible.

Earlier by a margin of some few years, the e.d. cap was mostly just a tight push fit over the nib and section, though I've a feeling that buyers were encouraged to keep pens upright, but not sure how, but again those pens could roll with the best of them.

 

This feature of threaded barrel terminals was very useful - the cap couldn't be lost since it was always attached to one end of the pen or the other - zero risk of damaging the barrel terminal, and if your pen does roll then I'm told that it's the cap that hits the deck first. :)

 

So, let's hear it big for a revival of threaded barrel terminals.           Fortunately, I'm a collector  -  can't write, so no danger of my pens rolling.


Edited by PaulS, 28 July 2019 - 15:51.






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