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M200 Steel Nibs


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31 replies to this topic

#21 LyaT

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Posted 31 July 2019 - 12:00

Whenever someone asks about M200, the common responses are:
1. Pelikan steel nibs are great.
2. Modern gold nibs are too smooth, too wet, too thick, not good without grinding to stub or Italic.
3. Vintage gold nibs are the best.

I think when we buy a Pelikan M200, we are buying into the Pelikan system. M200 has the same piston filler as M400 and M600. The nibs are interchangeable, which is really the greatest feature. M200 is a very reliable pen, top among all steel nib pens. Steel nib is often a budget choice or beginners choice. Yet one might change his or her taste, or simply exploring out of curiosity. M200 enables that desire. The modern, semi-vintage, vintage nibs can be bought at much lower price than a new M400. If you like your M200, it is very likely that you will wonder how a gold nib feels like. Or a semi-vintage oblique nib, a vintage stubbish semi-flex nib that you read so much on this forum. All these extra nibs will fit nicely into your M200. (Ok not all, but the compatibility range covers a very large portion.)

My first fountain pen is an M205 Olivine, not counting the school pens I used years ago. I bought other steel nib pens just to explore different brands - they are all gathering dust now. My M205 has worked with M400 M, semi-vintage OB and OBB, M101n MCI. It is still in use after a few more expensive birds have joined my collection.

I like my M605 F nib very much. I have semi-vintage and vintage nibs that I use more often for work notes and daily journal. Yet, if I am to travel for a couple of days conference, where I expect to write on a coffee stand, armrest, or my lap, I would take my trusty M605 F. The all angles smoothness is very important in those occasions. It is a very good nib to use for daily journal too. It is wet enough to show the brightness of inks, wide enough to show shading and sheen, and still narrow enough for daily use. I could write very fast, the nib always perform the same way. I wont recommend M400/M600 M nib. M nib is beyond the sweet spot, but F is very good.

My M605 with F nib:
fpn_1564571688__5277b33f-0f03-4613-a65e-

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#22 Bo Bo Olson

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Posted 31 July 2019 - 15:30

Semi-vintage regular flex '82-97 400 nibs and the 200's will fit a 600. If one wants a nice springy regular flex nib.

My blue BB 605 was made into a 1.0 stub by Francis......it is almost as good as my vintage '50's semi-flex B nib. :drool: :notworthy1: :puddle:


German vintage '50-70 semi-flex stubs and those in oblique give the real thing in On Demand line variation. Modern Oblique is a waste of money for a shadow of line variation. Being too lazy to Hunt for affordable vintage oblique pens, lets you 'hunt' for line variation instead of having it.

www.nibs.com/blog/nibster-writes/nibs-germany & https://www.peter-bo...cts/nib-systems,

 

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#23 Ray-Vigo

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Posted 31 July 2019 - 16:29


Whenever someone asks about M200, the common responses are:
1. Pelikan steel nibs are great.
2. Modern gold nibs are too smooth, too wet, too thick, not good without grinding to stub or Italic.
3. Vintage gold nibs are the best.

I think when we buy a Pelikan M200, we are buying into the Pelikan system. M200 has the same piston filler as M400 and M600. The nibs are interchangeable, which is really the greatest feature. M200 is a very reliable pen, top among all steel nib pens. Steel nib is often a budget choice or beginners choice. Yet one might change his or her taste, or simply exploring out of curiosity. M200 enables that desire. The modern, semi-vintage, vintage nibs can be bought at much lower price than a new M400. If you like your M200, it is very likely that you will wonder how a gold nib feels like. Or a semi-vintage oblique nib, a vintage stubbish semi-flex nib that you read so much on this forum. All these extra nibs will fit nicely into your M200. (Ok not all, but the compatibility range covers a very large portion.)

My first fountain pen is an M205 Olivine, not counting the school pens I used years ago. I bought other steel nib pens just to explore different brands - they are all gathering dust now. My M205 has worked with M400 M, semi-vintage OB and OBB, M101n MCI. It is still in use after a few more expensive birds have joined my collection.

I like my M605 F nib very much. I have semi-vintage and vintage nibs that I use more often for work notes and daily journal. Yet, if I am to travel for a couple of days conference, where I expect to write on a coffee stand, armrest, or my lap, I would take my trusty M605 F. The all angles smoothness is very important in those occasions. It is a very good nib to use for daily journal too. It is wet enough to show the brightness of inks, wide enough to show shading and sheen, and still narrow enough for daily use. I could write very fast, the nib always perform the same way. I wont recommend M400/M600 M nib. M nib is beyond the sweet spot, but F is very good.

My M605 with F nib:
fpn_1564571688__5277b33f-0f03-4613-a65e-

 

I agree on the M400/600 medium - it's pretty coarse for a "medium". If you like a broad line, it would be great. I think you're right that the modern "F" is really more of what people think of when they think of a medium type line. I can tolerate nibs making pretty broad lines when I write, but the "M" nib was too broad. I really like my M400 F nib as a note-taker and everyday pen.

 

I disagree to the extent that I think we shouldn't just consider higher quality steel nibs as being for beginners or being on a budget - the higher quality stainless steel nibs will match gold in terms of performance for the most part. 14k gold resists corrosion very well, but some of the modern stainless steel alloys do fairly well in that regard too. I can see the M200 being a really nice workhorse pen.

 

I agree about the Pelikan system - I have the extra M400 "M" nib because I was swapping nibs to see which I liked best. I ended up with the M400/F and the M200/M (people say the M200 runs a little smaller than the M400, and I agree). The M400/M is too broad for my taste and is in the nib box for now.


Edited by Ray-Vigo, 31 July 2019 - 16:29.


#24 Bo Bo Olson

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Posted 02 August 2019 - 07:57

200 and the '82-97 M400 gold nibs are nice springy regular flex nibs that are =; and a half a size narrower than modern................... (so those M's would be like a fat F.)

And both have a nice clean line.

 

If Modern post 97 is too fat and blobby for you, try the semi-vintage 400's nib if it 'has' to be gold, or a gold plated 200.

 

Cult pens in England offers great prices for gold plated 200's nibs. As long as one don't rub like crazy, the gold plating should last many years.

Bare steel is even cheaper....is affordable.


German vintage '50-70 semi-flex stubs and those in oblique give the real thing in On Demand line variation. Modern Oblique is a waste of money for a shadow of line variation. Being too lazy to Hunt for affordable vintage oblique pens, lets you 'hunt' for line variation instead of having it.

www.nibs.com/blog/nibster-writes/nibs-germany & https://www.peter-bo...cts/nib-systems,

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 


#25 A Smug Dill

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Posted 22 August 2019 - 06:43

My M605 with F nib:
‹image of a notebook spread open with writing on the pages›


If the dashed-line grid shown in the photo is 5mm square, then there's no way I'd personally think of the writing came out of anything narrower than a Broad nib. If I had a Fine nib that wrote like that, I'd either throw the pen against the wall in frustration or introduce the nib to my electric sander to give it an attitude adjustment, irrespective of the replacement cost of the nib or pen. If I cannot "draw" eight distinct parallel horizontal lines strictly inside a 5mm square with a nib, then it's not Fine (or fine) by me in any sense of the word.


As always:  1. Implicit in everything and every instance I write on FPN is the invitation for you to judge me as a peer in the community. I think it's only due respect to take each other's written word in online discussion seriously and apply critical judgment.  2. I do not presume to judge for you what is right, correct or valid. If I make a claim, or refute a statement in a thread, and link to references and other information in support, I beseech you to review and consider those, and judge for yourself. I may be wrong. My position or say-so carries no more weight than anyone else's here, and external parties can speak for themselves with what they have published.  3. I endeavour to be frank and truthful in what I write, show or otherwise present when I relate my first-hand experiences that are not independently verifiable. If it is something you can test for yourself and see the results, I entreat you to do so.

#26 Bo Bo Olson

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Posted 22 August 2019 - 08:32

Does Japanese nibs match this so called '5mm' fine scale?

Does MB?

Does Lamy?


German vintage '50-70 semi-flex stubs and those in oblique give the real thing in On Demand line variation. Modern Oblique is a waste of money for a shadow of line variation. Being too lazy to Hunt for affordable vintage oblique pens, lets you 'hunt' for line variation instead of having it.

www.nibs.com/blog/nibster-writes/nibs-germany & https://www.peter-bo...cts/nib-systems,

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 


#27 LyaT

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Posted 22 August 2019 - 08:47

If the dashed-line grid shown in the photo is 5mm square, then there's no way I'd personally think of the writing came out of anything narrower than a Broad nib. If I had a Fine nib that wrote like that, I'd either throw the pen against the wall in frustration or introduce the nib to my electric sander to give it an attitude adjustment, irrespective of the replacement cost of the nib or pen. If I cannot "draw" eight distinct parallel horizontal lines strictly inside a 5mm square with a nib, then it's not Fine (or fine) by me in any sense of the word.


Thats 3.7mm grid, seven seas cafe note with 52g Tomoe River paper, which makes most nibs look a bit wider compared with Rhodia 80g paper.

Please cool it! We are talking about pens, ink and paper make a huge difference. Some people like it broad, some people like it thin, some people like to have many different widths nibs. I am happy with my pelikan F, and OBB alike.

#28 A Smug Dill

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Posted 22 August 2019 - 09:05

Thats 3.7mm grid,


Thanks for the clarification!

Please cool it! We are talking about pens, ink and paper make a huge difference. Some people like it broad, some people like it thin,


Absolutely, and that's why I always try to get to the point where people would say the measured line widths they require or desire from a nib, so that everyone else who don't share the same preferences and tastes can nevertheless relate to a common, objective frame of reference. If someone tells me they like their horizontal lines to be between 0.5mm to 0.7mm thick and definitely no thinner than the lesser end of that range, I can at least cognitively understand what they mean even if that's not my personal preference.

The problem with designations such as "Fine" and "Broad" is that everyone (and I'm also guilty of that more than occasionally) seems to want to lay claim to what those words really mean in communication between members of the community (to which they also belong). That's the reason why I was making the point above that if I can't draw eight parallel lines in a 5mm space with a nib, then it's not Fine to me, and if Pelikan's system of nib width grades don't agree with that then I'll just have to reject Pelikan products categorically as a prospective customer.
As always:  1. Implicit in everything and every instance I write on FPN is the invitation for you to judge me as a peer in the community. I think it's only due respect to take each other's written word in online discussion seriously and apply critical judgment.  2. I do not presume to judge for you what is right, correct or valid. If I make a claim, or refute a statement in a thread, and link to references and other information in support, I beseech you to review and consider those, and judge for yourself. I may be wrong. My position or say-so carries no more weight than anyone else's here, and external parties can speak for themselves with what they have published.  3. I endeavour to be frank and truthful in what I write, show or otherwise present when I relate my first-hand experiences that are not independently verifiable. If it is something you can test for yourself and see the results, I entreat you to do so.

#29 LyaT

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Posted 22 August 2019 - 09:58

Lol, you remind me how I felt of Nakaya. I was tempted by a Nakaya pen, but after seeing the extremely narrow lines written by M nib, I gave up the idea altogether. When I buy a M nib, I want decent amount of ink poured on the paper! I told myself and moved on.

It is really a clash between eastern and western standards. If I want a pen to practice kanji, I will get a thin nib from Japan. But I want cursive writing, my Pelikans are designed for such needs.

#30 A Smug Dill

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Posted 22 August 2019 - 10:20

It is really a clash between eastern and western standards. If I want a pen to practice kanji, I will get a thin nib from Japan. But I want cursive writing, my Pelikans are designed for such needs.


Fair enough! Whereas I speak both Chinese (my mother tongue) and English (because I have lived here in Australia most of my life) with the same "equipment" — i.e. my mouth, tongue and voicebox — competently (and not with "a foreign accent" that sets me apart) by just varying the technique, and I expect my "everyday" pens that aren't equipped with specialised nibs (such as Italic and Fude nibs) to do the same, instead of being a constraining factor.

Luckily, my M200 steel nibs serve me OK for that purpose, even though I can't say the same of the 18K gold Fine nib on my M815 nib before I brutalised it roughly with an emery board. In particular, the M200 steel F nib I have is very versatile:

 

fpn_1566531662__m200_f_nib_showing_versa


Edited by A Smug Dill, 23 August 2019 - 03:41.

As always:  1. Implicit in everything and every instance I write on FPN is the invitation for you to judge me as a peer in the community. I think it's only due respect to take each other's written word in online discussion seriously and apply critical judgment.  2. I do not presume to judge for you what is right, correct or valid. If I make a claim, or refute a statement in a thread, and link to references and other information in support, I beseech you to review and consider those, and judge for yourself. I may be wrong. My position or say-so carries no more weight than anyone else's here, and external parties can speak for themselves with what they have published.  3. I endeavour to be frank and truthful in what I write, show or otherwise present when I relate my first-hand experiences that are not independently verifiable. If it is something you can test for yourself and see the results, I entreat you to do so.

#31 Calabria

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Posted 23 August 2019 - 00:31

I have that white transparent M605 with an F nib, too. Sometimes it feels good to write with a blobby nib but for now it's in the drawer.
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#32 Intensity

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Posted 23 August 2019 - 11:20

Japanese pens can produce very broad lines too, just go with B, BB, C, or Music nibs, as applicable. B is more like a thick western medium.

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