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When Do You Replace A Sac?


BlackwaterPark

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Hi,

 

Sorry for the daft question, I hope this is the right place for it. I haven't been able to find the answer to this question with the search tool:

 

I've recently come into a few non-restored 60's aeromatic UK Duofolds, as-well as a post 1975 aeromatic Parker 61, and I'm not sure whether just a clean is sufficient and advisable to have these pens writing or if it is best practise to replace the sacs? I know the Parker 51 sacs are legendary for their longevity, as I've had the pleasure of confirming, but I am not under the impression that Parker's other ink sacs are made from the same pli-glass.

 

The sacs look supple and are not hardened. The only sac which I'm fairly sure needs replacing belongs to a standard #25 Duofold, which appears to have leaked a long time ago possibly due to puncture.

 

Thanks very much for any advice; I'd be greatly obliged to anyone who can point me in the right direction here. :)

Edited by BlackwaterPark
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No Daft questions here. Don’t over think this. If they are not leaking, hard, and have not gone all gooey inside, Just ink them up and enjoy them. By gooey i mean when you squeeze it together, if it sticks to itself and doesn’t want to come back to its original shape, its on its way out.

Plyglass sacs are available today for Areos. Some of the AreoDuofolds especially the Newhaven pens will take a plyglass sac. The others take latex rubber sacs.

Here’s some reading material for you. Hope this helps..

 

https://www.pensacs.com/New%20Pages/catalog.html

http://www.richardspens.com/

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If there is no leakage in use then unless you especially want a brand new pli-glass sac to make the pen look extra-'minty' for re-sale then I see no reason to change it / them.

"Every job is good if you do your best and work hard.

A man who works hard stinks only to the ones that have

nothing to do but smell."

Laura Ingalls Wilder

 

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Ah, Richard's site is wonderful, and that list of sac sizes looks immensely useful.

 

Based on your advice to ink up and enjoy, I'm pleased to now have that 61 and particularly the Slimfold writing very smoothly. What a dainty pen it is. The Duofold Standard is waiting for me to sort its nib issue and the Junior is soaking to try and clear up an apparent blockage somewhere in the section.

 

Thanks very much!

Edited by BlackwaterPark
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Sac fillers are not that common in my field of collection interest but the ones showing up are usually done. I that case there is no question that I have to replace the ossified sac. I had a few cases where the sac still was supple. I didn't trust it to last when in everyday use and preferred playing it safe and replacing the sac. It's only a couple bucks and a few minutes of work after all. So, I re-sac essentially all pens when I get them to be on the safe side.

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If I don’t know when was the last time the sac was changed, and previous owner didn’t indicate that it was restored, I would go ahead and service it including changing sac. It gives a peace of mind and a nicer pen to use.

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#1................Do Not use supersaturated inks in a rubber sac pen. Many to most of the repairman are against using such inks, in they eat a sac in weeks instead of the years one should last. Now they should last some 10 years, before ....back in the day....they were good for 30-40 or more years.

 

Your Doufold is due for a new sac............do not use baby talc when putting it back together, use cleaner pool hall talc.

 

Over in the repair section is much on how to re-sac a pen........and it is not super expensive from my reading to have a pro do that.

Marshal, Oldfield or Twiddle could do that in GB. Just know the names of the big boys, not got a link.

In reference to P. T. Barnum; to advise for free is foolish, ........busybodies are ill liked by both factions.

 

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 

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Glad you got some of your pens started up. Don’t be afraid to come back to us if you hit something you don’t understand..all the best.

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#1................Do Not use supersaturated inks in a rubber sac pen. Many to most of the repairman are against using such inks, in they eat a sac in weeks instead of the years one should last. Now they should last some 10 years, before ....back in the day....they were good for 30-40 or more years.

 

Your Doufold is due for a new sac............do not use baby talc when putting it back together, use cleaner pool hall talc.

 

Over in the repair section is much on how to re-sac a pen........and it is not super expensive from my reading to have a pro do that.

Marshal, Oldfield or Twiddle could do that in GB. Just know the names of the big boys, not got a link.

 

Bo Bo is right for the wrong reasons on #1.

 

Supersaturated inks don't eat sacs. They're just much, much harder to clean properly, which increases wear and tear (5 pumps in water vs 50)

 

Same logic applies to glitter and pigmented inks. They're a nightmare to clean thoroughly, so just don't do it.

 

Avoid RED inks in sacs. There is a growing amount of anecdotal evidence that red inks in general will shorten a sac's lifespan somewhat dramatically.

 

A sac should be replaced if the filling system isn't working properly. Is it leaking, or not filling, or sticky or mushy and not propping the J bar up enough anymore? Replace 'er.

Selling a boatload of restored, fairly rare, vintage Japanese gold nib pens, click here to see (more added as I finish restoring them)

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Ron Zorn and a few other professional repair men, say it eats sacs, and don't warrant their sac replacement if supersaturated inks are used.

I only have a couple Noodler's inks....and not all Noodlers are supersaturated, some shade, but would not put in my four remaining sac pens.

 

Sac pens are the fastest to load, and slowest to clean...but if one plans, one can stay with dark inks, or work in lighter inks over a period........How clean is clean? it don't take 10 minutes to clean a sac pen....or at least good enough to go from BB to Turquoise.

If the turquoise is a tad darker than normal, it won't be the next load.

Like any pen with a major color change, one has to let it rest nib down in a paper towel in a cup for a day.

I don't worry about using ESSR or any other IG ink, in they were quite common inks back in the hayday of the sac pens. The other ink I have in my 52's is Pelikan 4001.

Right now the two pretty Esties are in the pen box.

In reference to P. T. Barnum; to advise for free is foolish, ........busybodies are ill liked by both factions.

 

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 

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I used Sheaffer red ink in my P51 for about a year, also white laundry ink, and india ink before changing to Sheaffer blue black. Now, after forty-nine years, it's still on its original sac. Parker 51 is a pen for the ages.

"Don't hurry, don't worry. It's better to be late at the Golden Gate than to arrive in Hell on time."
--Sign in a bar and grill, Ormond Beach, Florida, 1960.

 

 

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Ron Zorn and a few other professional repair men, say it eats sacs, and don't warrant their sac replacement if supersaturated inks are used.

I only have a couple Noodler's inks....and not all Noodlers are supersaturated, some shade, but would not put in my four remaining sac pens.

 

Sac pens are the fastest to load, and slowest to clean...but if one plans, one can stay with dark inks, or work in lighter inks over a period........How clean is clean? it don't take 10 minutes to clean a sac pen....or at least good enough to go from BB to Turquoise.

If the turquoise is a tad darker than normal, it won't be the next load.

Like any pen with a major color change, one has to let it rest nib down in a paper towel in a cup for a day.

I don't worry about using ESSR or any other IG ink, in they were quite common inks back in the hayday of the sac pens. The other ink I have in my 52's is Pelikan 4001.

Right now the two pretty Esties are in the pen box.

 

 

Superstition is rampant. Even among repairers. Among everyone. Ask any paramedic when the busiest times of year are, and they'll tell you it's as soon as you say it's been a slow night.

 

There's no way they could even know if you used a super saturated ink.

 

Dyes are not inherently acidic or basic. The concentration of them is rarely going to affect their chemical makeup to a degree that affects any molarities of the acidic/basic nature of the solution.

 

More molecules of dye is not going to interact any faster with the molecules of the sac. It's a basic Le Chatlier's chemical principal.

Edited by Honeybadgers

Selling a boatload of restored, fairly rare, vintage Japanese gold nib pens, click here to see (more added as I finish restoring them)

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Could be you are right....however, from comments read over a few years, the repairman complain about dead eaten sacs returned after three or so weeks...........not three months, not three years.

And none are saying don't use Pelikan 4001.

 

I have read others who use supersaturated inks in sac pens that claim no problem.

I just don't remember how long it was they didn't have a problem.

 

As I said, I only have a couple supersaturated inks, and by me they won't get used in one of my 4 sac pens.

I have enough traditional inks.

In reference to P. T. Barnum; to advise for free is foolish, ........busybodies are ill liked by both factions.

 

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 

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Could be you are right....however, from comments read over a few years, the repairman complain about dead eaten sacs returned after three or so weeks...........not three months, not three years.

And none are saying don't use Pelikan 4001.

 

I have read others who use supersaturated inks in sac pens that claim no problem.

I just don't remember how long it was they didn't have a problem.

 

As I said, I only have a couple supersaturated inks, and by me they won't get used in one of my 4 sac pens.

I have enough traditional inks.

 

 

Knowing a heck of a lot more about chemistry than most pen repairers...

 

 

I'd wager that they just got a batch of sacs that were either old (even "new" tires on a car can be past their use-by date, something you should always check when you get new tires, as a pair fresh off the rack can be so old that they disintegrate within a month) or just didn't come out of the machine correct. Latex condoms follow EXTREMELY rigorous QC testing that latex pen sacs do not, and even then, sometimes those fail.

 

I've had a brand new sac from greg minuskin split on me the first time I filled it. I trust he didn't give me a pen without replacing it.

Edited by Honeybadgers

Selling a boatload of restored, fairly rare, vintage Japanese gold nib pens, click here to see (more added as I finish restoring them)

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It would be prudent to replace an ink sac when your pen is leaking or when you want to act preemptively to prevent your pen from leaking.

"Don't hurry, don't worry. It's better to be late at the Golden Gate than to arrive in Hell on time."
--Sign in a bar and grill, Ormond Beach, Florida, 1960.

 

 

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It's just not worth the risk to put "possibly unsafe" ink in any pens except these with a converter. If it's not rotting a sac or staining celluloid, at least it is a pain to clean the pen.

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Part of the problem also could be that people using supersaturated inks are also painstaking at cleaning them. There is always mechanical stress when the lever, button, or twister is acted and if it's done a hundred more times than usual, it's no wonder that the sac wears a hundred times faster. Keep in mind that in the old days pens were re-filled rather than cleaned meticulously before putting it away or filling it with another fancy colour. QC problems and lower quality sacs could be a problem also. After all, it's a niche product nowadays.

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Yeah, I will completely concede that super saturated inks suck in sac fillers at the least just because they suuuuuuuck to clean. I wouldn't use them for that reason alone, but I did use organics studio nitrogen in an esterbrook for like 6 months straight and the sac is fine. That ink is beyond super saturated.

Selling a boatload of restored, fairly rare, vintage Japanese gold nib pens, click here to see (more added as I finish restoring them)

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When Do You Replace A Sac?

 

When needed or if purchased from an unknown..always replace.....

Fred

E Pluribus Unum

Listening to Ella Fitzgerald .............Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered..................

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Thanks for all the replies, I really appreciate it. I see the use of supersaturated inks is a charged topic. I'd like some practise replacing sacs so I'll take those duofolds as a good opportunity to learn. :)

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