Mabie Todd "the Swan" Pen Manufacture Date

[peterg]

The lever looks like it is hard rubber. In the UK that was mainly used in 1930's pens

[Greenie]

Is the lever hard rubber or missing?

 

Has anyone seen a hard rubber pen on a metal pen?

 

The metal all the way to the threads usually means metal pen rather than overlay.

[PaulS]

Peter - the lever in the first picture looks very much like metal - quite why the lever appears so dark in Reply No. 11 I'm not sure - could be just very poor lighting.

Edited July 11, 2019 by PaulS

[Thy]

 

The 1921 Catalog.

 

You can find the catalog for download at https://pencollectorsofamerica.org/

Thank you! One of the reasons I got into fountain pens was because of all the history associated with many of them.

 

 

The engraving could have been done well after the initial retail sale as well. For example, the pen might have been a gift to her mother when new in the 20's, and was passed down to her daughter and engraved in the 1940s

That's what I'm hoping for I'm going to try and find her children online, and ask them about her. Hopefully, it won't be too weird asking about their mother, whom I've never met.

whilst I fully respect your investigations regarding the genealogy of Maine residents - and incidentally hope that you are correct, which would be exciting - I think there are variables in the history of this pen that, in order to stay with your line of thought, requires we accept some unsubstantiated information.

It really is most unusual for the personalization to omit the Christian name, or at least an initial, and whilst your enquires suggest the sale was from the estate of the original owner, what, for example, if the original owner of the pen had parted with it some decades back - say mid C20 or thereabouts. Subsequently the purchase might have taken the pen from a geographically unknown location - though having belonged to C.T. - into ownership of the family in Maine?

 

Apologies if you consider my comments overly negative, but mostly I'm being thrown by the difference between the personalization and the lady to whom you are attributing the pen.

I am also worried about that fact; I'm hoping that such a thing didn't happen, but you never know. Usually though, most estate sales are for older peeps who've passed, and if that previous owner was a very young gentleman/lady, they most likely wouldn't be a pen collector. The chances are moderately high that Virginia isn't the first owner. All I know is that the pen came from Wiscasset, and the previous owner did not take care of the pen very well, so it may have been passed onto her.

 

 

Thinking in social terms.

 

It would not be surprising that she was given a pen when too young, at the time, I think a good age for such a present by her father would likely be as soon as she had learnt to write and correspond, at most, around 11-12 years old, or when she got 16 for her come of age party.

 

Given the dates, I wouldn't expect it (the gift) to happen while or shortly after the Great Depression. The model is American and not English, so it is unlikely it was made after the recession, ruling out it might have been made or given at later dates.

 

It looks like a typical young lady's pen of the Merry 20's, inlaid with gold, also what one would expect from those crazy years, and just the age for a young lady about to be introduced to society to receive (remember, those were the times when a 16 year old girl was coming of age, and a 30 year old one was already too old to be married). you can picture her proudly using it for her dance book in her party.

 

Also, OTOH, if it had been presented to her after she was married it would carry her husband's name, not hers, and for those times, one wouldn't expect a well-to-do young lady to become "old" (25+) before getting married and changing name. If Thomas was her married name, then it wouldn't make much sense that someone other than her husband gave it to her (due to social conventions of the times) and therefore it would have been presented likely in the late 20s, shortly after marriage and just before the Great Depression of '29.

Yep. I'm aware of that. I'm not sure now that Virgina C. Thomas is the owner, it might have been a relative's pen. I know for a fact that the pen had a nib and sac change in the last ~30 years or so, so this pen was very special to someone. The pen showed a lot of oxidation and debris, so I think it may have belonged to an elderly woman who was not a very avid pen collector, but did know how to change the sac and nib/hired someone to change the sac and nib. The last name Thomas doesn't show up in many obituaries or funeral records, so it is a tad hard to track.

[Thy]

Is the lever hard rubber or missing?

 

Has anyone seen a hard rubber pen on a metal pen?

 

The metal all the way to the threads usually means metal pen rather than overlay.

The lever was actually metal; the only hard rubber part in the pen was the friction fit between the barrel and section. The whole pen was made of silver!

[Greenie]

ALL CAPS FOR A REASON - JUST TO GET ATTENTION! NOT YELLING!

 

We have two threads for this pen - one seemed to be for the restoration, and one for dating the pen and the name - i.e. the history.

 

Lets put all the restoration talk in the restoration thread (not this one), and all the history in this thread.

 

I will address my restoration thoughts in the other thread now.... Until we get all muddled up again, which always happens anyway!

[Thy]

ALL CAPS FOR A REASON - JUST TO GET ATTENTION! NOT YELLING!

 

We have two threads for this pen - one seemed to be for the restoration, and one for dating the pen and the name - i.e. the history.

 

Lets put all the restoration talk in the restoration thread (not this one), and all the history in this thread.

 

I will address my restoration thoughts in the other thread now.... Until we get all muddled up again, which always happens anyway!

That would be great; that would organize this mainly for the history of the pen.

I think I may have found something that may help date this pen; the _ bar, inside the pen (not called J bar, will edit once known). The bar was very unique compared to other bars I've found, wrapping around the upper hemisphere of the pen, rather than just being a single bar.

 

Perhaps this would give a clue as to which era used this particular type of bar?

Edited July 12, 2019 by Thy

[MarcShiman]

One last thing to consider - C. Thomas could have been a man.

 

While these were advertised as women's pens, and while the ringtop suggests it being worn around the neck, ringtops were also used on watch chains for men as vest pocket pens. I have a Newark Secretary ringtop combo pen, new in its original box attached to a thick watch chain.

[Thy]

One last thing to consider - C. Thomas could have been a man.

 

While these were advertised as women's pens, and while the ringtop suggests it being worn around the neck, ringtops were also used on watch chains for men as vest pocket pens. I have a Newark Secretary ringtop combo pen, new in its original box attached to a thick watch chain.

I actually thought so at first; I was really confused when I did my research and found in women. Although I did assume afterwards that it was a female, there is a very high chance I may be wrong.