Mabie Todd "the Swan" Pen Manufacture Date

[Thy]

Would anyone happen to know the exact months that Mabie Todd's "The Swan" pens were in production? I recently acquired a Sterling Silver pen from Ebay, who told me that she got it from an estate sale in Maine. After restoration, I noticed an engraving with C. Thomas.

 

I'm fascinated by the history of the pens I owned, so I did some research. I have than since narrowed it down to 1 person, but the facts are a bit questionable. The person that I concluded was the first owner of the pen is Virginia C. Thomas, who died last month. However, she was 99 when she died, which meant she was at most 11 if she was given the pen in the 1920s. This bit throws me off, due to how young she was when she owned it. Are Mabie Todd's "The Swan" pens were made around this time, or was it made after the 1920s as well?

 

Edited July 11, 2019 by Thy

[PaulS]

from my experience of pens that carry owners names, they usually carry the full name or at least the full initial letters. How confident do you feel that in view of your opinion that the owner was indeed V.C.T. that this pen - showing only C.T. - would have belonged to the lady you have in mind?

[MarcShiman]

I think the Swan name carried on for about 70+ years. If its a US pen (assuming so as the recipient was US), the last of the Swans were in the late 30's. If it was a British Swan, it went up through the 50's.

 

That one has a lever so it can't have been produced before 1917. Need more photos to be more precise on the dates.

Edited July 11, 2019 by MarcShiman

[Thy]

from my experience of pens that carry owners names, they usually carry the full name or at least the full initial letters. How confident do you feel that in view of your opinion that the owner was indeed V.C.T. that this pen - showing only C.T. - would have belonged to the lady you have in mind?

I am completely confident; there is nobody else in that town that has the same last and middle name, and died recently, and is a woman. I found the lack of a first name really odd actually, I would suspect that it would've been a wedding gift in 1942, considering her mother's nave was not Thomas. If my guess is true, than the dating of the pen should be around 1940s, if Mabie Todd was still making "The Swan" pens at that time. Otherwise, the the pen predated the engraving by almost 20 years.

 

 

I think the Swan name carried on for about 70+ years. If its a US pen (assuming so as the recipient was US), the last of the Swans were in the late 30's. If it was a British Swan, it went up through the 50's.

 

That one has a lever so it can't have been produced before 1917. Need more photos to be more precise on the dates.

Thanks. I suspected it would've been produced after 1919, since that was her birth date. What pictures would you need?

[MarcShiman]

Any imprint on the barrel, the section, feed and nib. Maybe a closeup of the lever - is there any text on the lever?

 

I hate to date a pen on a nib, because they are interchangeable and could have been replaced at some point.

 

Is this is solid metal pen or an overlay?

[Thy]

Any imprint on the barrel, the section, feed and nib. Maybe a closeup of the lever - is there any text on the lever?

 

I hate to date a pen on a nib, because they are interchangeable and could have been replaced at some point.

 

Is this is solid metal pen or an overlay?

There are imprints, but unfortunately they tell nothing about the date..."Swan Pen" Mabie Todd New York, Sterling Silver, made in USA (the usual). Sadly, the nib was also changed with a Sheaffer 3-25 nib; at some point they decided to replace the nib, I'm guessing due to corrosion. A bit of a sidetrack, but when I received the pen, the 3-25 nib was corroding as well. The ink inside was some sort of blue ink; I'm thinking they used india ink instead of fountain pen ink, most of the ink residue had to be sanded off. Either way, there are no date imprints, unless the layout suggested a significant period.

[MarcShiman]

It actually could have been sold with the Sheaffer nib. Unless it was a surprise gift, what often happened is that metal pens were distributed through jewelry stores who would put in a nib that was pleasing to the user (they weren't concerned with matching the nib brand to the pen brand). Because many of those smaller MT pens had very flexible nibs, the user might have preferred a stiff nib and the jeweler might have fitted a sheaffer nib. But it just makes our job more difficult in dating the pen.

 

They don't put dates on pens (sometimes they will put patent dates on them). but often the way the imprint is worded gives away details. Also the two rings at the top of the cap and bottom of the barrel might be clues. A picture of the section and feed might be a clue too.

 

I think "Swan Pen" is 1920's, but I'd have to look it up. Greenie, do you have any of these lever filled keychain pens?

[Thy]

It actually could have been sold with the Sheaffer nib. Unless it was a surprise gift, what often happened is that metal pens were distributed through jewelry stores who would put in a nib that was pleasing to the user (they weren't concerned with matching the nib brand to the pen brand). Because many of those smaller MT pens had very flexible nibs, the user might have preferred a stiff nib and the jeweler might have fitted a sheaffer nib. But it just makes our job more difficult in dating the pen.

 

They don't put dates on pens (sometimes they will put patent dates on them). but often the way the imprint is worded gives away details. Also the two rings at the top of the cap and bottom of the barrel might be clues. A picture of the section and feed might be a clue too.

 

I think "Swan Pen" is 1920's, but I'd have to look it up. Greenie, do you have any of these lever filled keychain pens?

Ah I see. Thanks. Actually, the 3-25 fitted was a flexible one, which was odd. I also thought the 3-25 would be a stiff nib as well, for the reasons you mentioned, but it was a truly flexible nib. Ah! I was just about to mention that the engraving style!

I apologize horribly about the quality, but the engraving has 3 very tiny separate marks

 

These make up the lettering as a whole. Here is a poorly drawn representation:

 

I do have a keychain pen! There is a little hole in the top, I think this feature was included on a lot of lady pens at the time.

Here is a picture of the section and feed (I been getting at that section for quite a while now, it is very stubborn, the feed is corroded, but still usable)

Edited July 11, 2019 by Thy

[MarcShiman]

Can you do a picture of the imprint that says "Swan Pen, Mabie Todd, New York"?

 

The engraving was done by a jeweler, so there aren't any clues in that.

 

Also, is there text towards the end of the barrel?

[Cob]

Definitely 1920s in that style I should say.

 

As for the term "The Swan Pen" I'm a little surprised. I thought that this appeared only on early eyedroppers. I cannot recall seeing it on any English Swan.

 

I have a silver split lever Swan - the one model that can definitely be dated as they were made ony in 1919. My pen is stamped "Swan Fountain Pen" - and curiously for a lever-filler "Safety Screw Cap"!

 

Cob

[Thy]

There is text! Not much to go on though:

[MarcShiman]

Definitely 1920s in that style I should say.

 

As for the term "The Swan Pen" I'm a little surprised. I thought that this appeared only on early eyedroppers. I cannot recall seeing it on any English Swan.

 

I have a silver split lever Swan - the one model that can definitely be dated as they were made ony in 1919. My pen is stamped "Swan Fountain Pen" - and curiously for a lever-filler "Safety Screw Cap"!

 

Cob

 

Actually that's something I was wondering - does it say "The Swan Pen" or just "Swan Pen".

 

Unfortunately, all my 1920's ads are for celluloid and rubber pens, I think the metal pens were advertised entirely differently.

[Thy]

Looking at the text closely, I think it says "Swan Pen". There is no space for "the".

[MarcShiman]

So the model (actually more like a stock number) was the S572/2 - this breaks down as follows:

 

S - Silver

5 - not sure - could be a metal pen, could be a lever filler.

72 - size of the pen

/2 - lined pattern.

 

Its in the Mabie Todd 1921 catalog. All that means is that they made them in 1921. It's not clear when they started making them and when they stopped making them. I think these might have been made well into the 1930's, I have no evidence to the contrary.

 

Mabie Todd catalogs are scarce. In the US, they stopped advertising by about 1931 (depression era). I have catalogs throughout the 20's, but most of them are abbreviated 8 page catalogs without the metal pens, there are very few 32 page catalogs I'm aware of (1921 and 1924 are all I know of.)

 

Because it's not "The Swan Pen", and its "Swan Pen", that rules out the 1910's pens (although we were able to rule that out by the presence of a lever). My guess is that the Italic text for Sterling Silver (I can't see it well enough) dates it early 20's, and I think they switched fonts into the late 20's with the Eternal line. But like I said earlier, the metal pens were a separate and distinct product with their own distribution channel, and what applies to the pens I collect may not apply here.

 

I don't think there's any way to know when this pen was made more specifically than sometimes between 1917 - 1939.

Edited July 11, 2019 by MarcShiman

[Thy]

Oh wow, thank you! Thank you very much, that was very helpful. Just a quick question, where are the stock numbers from?

Edited July 11, 2019 by Thy

[MarcShiman]

Actually, I spoke too soon. The pens in the 21 catalog had somewhat rounded ends. Your is a flattop. This is probably 1924 onwards.

[MarcShiman]

Oh wow, thank you! Thank you very much, that was very helpful. Just a quick question, where are the stock numbers from?

 

The 1921 Catalog.

 

You can find the catalog for download at https://pencollectorsofamerica.org/

[PaulS]

whilst I fully respect your investigations regarding the genealogy of Maine residents - and incidentally hope that you are correct, which would be exciting - I think there are variables in the history of this pen that, in order to stay with your line of thought, requires we accept some unsubstantiated information.

It really is most unusual for the personalization to omit the Christian name, or at least an initial, and whilst your enquires suggest the sale was from the estate of the original owner, what, for example, if the original owner of the pen had parted with it some decades back - say mid C20 or thereabouts. Subsequently the purchase might have taken the pen from a geographically unknown location - though having belonged to C.T. - into ownership of the family in Maine?

 

Apologies if you consider my comments overly negative, but mostly I'm being thrown by the difference between the personalization and the lady to whom you are attributing the pen.

[MarcShiman]

whilst I fully respect your investigations regarding the genealogy of Maine residents - and incidentally hope that you are correct, which would be exciting - I think there are variables in the history of this pen that, in order to stay with your line of thought, requires we accept some unsubstantiated information.

It really is most unusual for the personalization to omit the Christian name, or at least an initial, and whilst your enquires suggest the sale was from the estate of the original owner, what, for example, if the original owner of the pen had parted with it some decades back - say mid C20 or thereabouts. Subsequently the purchase might have taken the pen from a geographically unknown location - though having belonged to C.T. - into ownership of the family in Maine?

 

Apologies if you consider my comments overly negative, but mostly I'm being thrown by the difference between the personalization and the lady to whom you are attributing the pen.

 

The engraving could have been done well after the initial retail sale as well. For example, the pen might have been a gift to her mother when new in the 20's, and was passed down to her daughter and engraved in the 1940s

[txomsy]

Thinking in social terms.

 

It would not be surprising that she was given a pen when too young, at the time, I think a good age for such a present by her father would likely be as soon as she had learnt to write and correspond, at most, around 11-12 years old, or when she got 16 for her come of age party.

 

Given the dates, I wouldn't expect it (the gift) to happen while or shortly after the Great Depression. The model is American and not English, so it is unlikely it was made after the recession, ruling out it might have been made or given at later dates.

 

It looks like a typical young lady's pen of the Merry 20's, inlaid with gold, also what one would expect from those crazy years, and just the age for a young lady about to be introduced to society to receive (remember, those were the times when a 16 year old girl was coming of age, and a 30 year old one was already too old to be married). you can picture her proudly using it for her dance book in her party.

 

Also, OTOH, if it had been presented to her after she was married it would carry her husband's name, not hers, and for those times, one wouldn't expect a well-to-do young lady to become "old" (25+) before getting married and changing name. If Thomas was her married name, then it wouldn't make much sense that someone other than her husband gave it to her (due to social conventions of the times) and therefore it would have been presented likely in the late 20s, shortly after marriage and just before the Great Depression of '29.