Need Help Fixing A Swan Clip That Is Very Loose

[Dr.X]

Greetings.

 

I bought another MT Swan from eBay and need help with a very loose clip.

 

As far as I can tell, if I could remove the inner cap liner (which is very deep) I can reach the part of the clip that is inside the cap and maybe bend the tabs inward more to tighten it. Does anyone know how to get the liner out without destroying the cap? Am I even going in the right direction?

 

Gratitude,

 

Nick

 

[Marlow]

A bit of a soak in cold water, possibly even overnight might loosen the inner cap or if not, follow that up by using a screw tap of the right diameter to gently 'bite' into the inner cap before pulling it free. Good luck!

[Dr.X]

Thank you.

 

So it's press fit only?

And if it gets destroyed, what will the consequences be? Why is it there in the first place?

 

Gratitude,

 

Nick

[Greenie]

The inner cap is press fit, but with decades of dried ink acting like glue holding it in.

 

You need to remove it if you want to try to fix the clip.

 

I have not worked on these late American Swan pens, so I am not sure how the clip is secured.

 

The inner cap is there to seal against the flat end of the section when the cap is screwed on. This keeps it sealed so the pen does not link when capped.

[PaulS]

Sorry can't help with a solution, but ……………. occurs to me that if the tabs were in fact bent over inside the cap wall, prior to fitting the inner cap lining, might they not foul the inner cap when it was installed? Is there any mileage in attempting to remove the clip in the same way that U.K. Swan intrusion clips are removed - i.e. a slot head screwdriver placed under the clip, with protection, and then twisted to lever up the clip? The tabs might then be bent/twisted to create a tighter fit and then replaced.

 

I had an old U.K. made M.T. Swan - probably a 3250 or 60, and being rather dim assumed I could access the clip tabs from inside the cap. You can't ……… in the end, and looking for the answer, I cut the cap in half lengthwise, and discovered that the intrusion part of the clip sits inside a completely sealed part at the extreme domed head of the cap.

The final 8 mm or so of the dome of the cap is in fact a solid mass and offers no access to the clip tabs - in fact the tabs enter some considerable distance through the cap material which makes for a solid anchorage.

But, the most important part of this waffle is to say that on my example, that I cut in half, the cap when manufactured, is machined in such a way that it creates an inner cap lining as an integral part of the cap - in other words the inner part is not removable. How they made the cavity which accommodates the intrusion clip tabs I've no idea - presumably some sort of slotting drill.

 

Is it possible that the op's pen might be a similar case where the inner cap lining is machined as an integral part of the cap, with a slot cut separately for the intrusion clip tabs.?

Edited July 3, 2019 by PaulS

[Cob]

I have not worked on an American Swan either. However I am familiar with the "step" clips. These are held in place with a tab that slides between the rangs of the clip - yes! - behind the inner cap. There are two vertical slots in the cap that accept the "tangs" (for want of a better wird).

 

If your clip is loose, I cannot see how it could be mounted using this system.

 

Turning to the inner cap to remove this you must use a purpose-made extractor. I have one of these and usually warm up the upper part of the cap quite a lot with a hairdryer before applying any force.

 

So in conclusion it appears to be a case of remove the inner cap and have a look

 

Cob

[Dr.X]

You are all awesome.

 

On examining the cap excessively over the last day I have a suspicion Cob's answer is the correct one.

 

I did soak the cap in H2O overnight and there was a lot of ink dried up in that inner cap.

 

Now the inner cap looks nice and snug in there, and probing it suggests it may be made of hard rubber and rather happy to remain where it is.

 

I was thinking of trying to introduce some lubricant between it and the celluloid cap. I do not have the tool Cob refers to, and even if I did I doubt the inner cap would budge.

 

Does anyone have a suggestion about celluloid and rubber-safe lubricants that may help?

 

The tools of my trade (medicine) give me access to syringes with very small needles, clamps and forceps. And I have a heat gun. And an ultrasonic cleaner.

 

Cheers,

 

Nick

[Greenie]

Here is how you remove an inner cap:

 

It costs a little, but there is a lot of satisfaction in doing it yourself. It should run less then $25, and then you can replicate for other cap sizes for only a few dollars more for each additional size.

 

Go to Harbor Freight and get a cheap set of taps and dies that look like they span the size of pen caps. I got this one, and it is only $16.49. Don't forget your 20% off coupon and you cost is $13.19 plus tax.

 

Once you have it, see which tap goes inside the inner cap, and which is the first one that is too big. Use the one that is one size too big. Then use it to cut threads into the inner cap. This will not affect the function later, and appearance does not matter.

 

Next is a trip to Home Depot or Lowes. You need to buy a bolt to match that tap - the tap will tell you diameter and thread count, and the set you buy will have standard sizes. You also want to buy a sing nut to match the bolt.

 

The best last piece is ebay special order. If you want to do it easier, while you are at home depot get two washers with a hole as close to the diameter of the bolt as possible, and large enough to be larger than the diameter of the cap.

 

Special order is to get a "thrust washer" on ebay meeting the same criteria - inner hole close to the size of the bolt, and then wide enough to be larger diameter than the cap. These usually come with the flat washers you will also need. They look like this, and often cost under $3.00 from China

 

 

Put the wing nut on the bolt so the flat side is facing the threaded end of the bolt and twist it way down the bolt. The add the washers or the thrust washer assembly (thrust washer between two flat washers. And thread the bolt into the inner cap.

 

Now start twisting the wing nut until everything is snug to the cap lip. And then keep on going. It will pull out the cap. Be sure that you have soaked the cap first, or preferably run it thru an ultrasonic jewelry cleaner to get out the crud.

 

I will try to remember to take a picture of my set up later if anything is not clear, but the picture is so much clearer.

[Dr.X]

Brilliant!! Your explanation is so good I can picture it all in my head.

 

I will let you know how it goes.

 

No ideas about lubricants to ease the exit?

[Greenie]

just soak it. Ultrasonic is better to break up the ink between the inner cap and out cap. I suppose you could put some silicone grease inside the cap with a Q tip.

 

Anyway, when it first starts to give, you will likely think you have just broken the cap as it gives way with a snap. Some are looser and less terrifying.

[Greenie]

Here is my inner cap puller set up. From left is the tap, and the device for pulling. On the right is the extra thrust washer (it was a set of two on line), and the plain washers that I used before upgrading. I now have a similar set up in three in different sizes.

 

Again, I bought the set of taps and dies. Once I have an inner cap that I tapped to remove, I buy the bolt, wing nut, and washers. I never had a problem with two normal washers, but there is potential for friction at the cap lip with this set up. The thrust washers were cheap enough, and then there is never any rotation of the washer in contact with the cap lip. You always get pure pulling action and nothing else. I usually use a vise grip to hold the bolt. Be sure to grip it by the head or next to the head so you don't wreck parts of the threads you will need to use later. When it is particularly difficult, I use pliers to help turn the wing nut.

 

Edited July 4, 2019 by Greenie

[Cob]

Yes, there is no chance of removing the inner cap without an extractor and Greenie's ingenious solution will of course work very well.

 

To soak caps, I plug the breather holes with "Blu-Tak" and then fill the cap with water and stand it up in a suitable holder - and let it soak overnight..

 

As I wrote earlier some dry heat to the upper part of the cap will help - use a hairdryer. Avoid the lower part as pressure from the extractor would distort the cap if it is softened.

 

Best of luck,

 

Cob

[PaulS]

thanks for sharing this home made and successful piece of kit.

[Marlow]

Here is my inner cap puller set up. From left is the tap, and the device for pulling. On the right is the extra thrust washer (it was a set of two on line), and the plain washers that I used before upgrading. I now have a similar set up in three in different sizes.

 

Again, I bought the set of taps and dies. Once I have an inner cap that I tapped to remove, I buy the bolt, wing nut, and washers. I never had a problem with two normal washers, but there is potential for friction at the cap lip with this set up. The thrust washers were cheap enough, and then there is never any rotation of the washer in contact with the cap lip. You always get pure pulling action and nothing else. I usually use a vise grip to hold the bolt. Be sure to grip it by the head or next to the head so you don't wreck parts of the threads you will need to use later. When it is particularly difficult, I use pliers to help turn the wing nut.

 

 

I can't believe how lucky I have been using just the soak and tap to remove inner caps!!

 

I have everything bar the thrust washers on which I am now awaiting delivery! Thanks so much for this post!

[Dr.X]

Thanks again everyone, especially Greenie. I finally did it and wanted to share the results.

Then inner cap came out with the tap - as I was starting to cut threads into it, it started to spin and I pulled it out.

My assumptions about the mechanism were correct, as can be seen below. Very simple mechanism.



What I didn’t count on was how damned HARD the metal of the clip is. I could not bend it much without stripping the plating. I certainly could not bend the tabs in after reinserting it into the cap. So what I ended up doing was to use a little clear 2 part epoxy strategically placed under the top of the clip where the tabs go in. Worked like a charm. I even used the pen at work for a day, clipped into my front shirt pocket.

Here is the pen after reassembly.



This pen taught me a lot. One thing is that these late American Swans were made with very thin materials. No doubt to reduce the cost. Even the nib is thin, which gives it a little spring if not true flex.

And that the lady who put this up on eBay is a very talented photographer. It was in a lot rougher shape than I could have imagined. But at the end of the day, all is good. I replaced the sac and J-bar (old one was rusted). Now I just have to smooth the nib, as it has a lot of tooth.

Edited August 4, 2019 by Dr.X

[Cob]

I don't quite understand what has happened here.

 

These clips are secured, not by bent tangs, but by a small T-shaped metal tab The clip is pressed into place on the cap and, with great difficulty, the little tab is shoved between the tangs, using a pair of forceps, thus securing the clip.

 

Some early english Swan Leverless pens, hvae removable tops to their caps, which makes fitting the tab a much simpler job.

 

Cob.

Edited August 5, 2019 by Cob

[Greenie]

I want to lead off by saying " I really don't know." With that out of the way, I think these late American Swan pens might have had the cheaper bent tabs type of attachment. I wonder who might know this for sure.

[Dr.X]

Cob, I can't see how a tab (or anything else) would fit between the inner cap and the outer cap. There is a flat surface on the inner cap (you can see it faintly on the first pic), where the tabs are located, but it is very small/superficial.

 

I'm not saying you're wrong, but for a tab to have fallen out the inner cap would have had to have been loose and it surely was not.

 

I suspect Greenie is right. This pen really feels cheaply made. Even the feed is insubstantial.

[Cob]

Hullo again.

 

Yes I have seen the type of clip you mention - where the clip is secured by the action of the inner cap.

 

Anyway, for information, here are a couple of snaps I have made showing the Swan system. You will notice that the tabs of the clip are formed in such a way as to accommodate the locking tab. Sorry - a very old, broken and scruffy clip!

 

 

 

Cob