Thoughts On The Pilot Custom Heritage 912?

[MuddyWaters]

I've been looking around at Japanese pens again and had been eyeing the custom 823 since it seems to be so consistently loved. I have a custom 74 and enjoy the nib but am not a fan of the plastic the body is made with nor the thinness of the barrel.

 

The 823 is relatively thin for a flagship pen but it is wider and many talk about it being comfortable. I believe the large nib and heaviness also helps with writing comfort.

 

The 823 is not cheap though. I was looking at a helpful chart that was posted in a link here, and the 912 seems to have the same width of the 823, and a larger nib than the 74. Though it is not a self-filler, it is compatible with the large capacity con-70.

 

Assuming that I was interested in regular nib sizes and shapes (like medium or broad), I seem to see that the 912 is a pen of very comparable size to the 823 for $100 CAD less. Am I off the mark? Thus the increased price of the 823 would be for the vacuum filler and slightly larger nib.

 

Additionally, but beside the above point, if we are talking about fa nib for Latin cursive writing (not calligraphy that would require buying a specialty feed), then it seems the price difference is even more, while the #10 FA nib seems to perform extremely well in the videos that I have seen for that purpose (not calligraphy).

[Lloyd]

Have you looked at the 743?

[ethernautrix]

I have both.

 

I love both.

 

I felt the 912, though, was a TAD fat. Just a tad. I didn't know it until I bought a 92 and realized, wow, I wish Pilot would make #5 PO nibs. I wouldn't have bought the 823 if I could get a 92 or 91 with a PO nib.

 

I prefer the black w/ST of the 912 -- and even the c/c. (If a semi-transparent black ("smoke") with silver trim were an 823 option, I would have chosen that.)

 

But I prefer the slimmer barrel of the 823 and (surprise!) enjoy the vacuum-filling mechanism AND the huge ink capacity (Noodler's Black, with no plans to change inks ever).

 

It sucks that I had to buy a 743 to harvest its PO nib. But... I did it (with the intention of selling the 743 one of these days). Which brings me to another plus for the 912. You could just buy the one pen.

 

Or you could buy two 912s with different nibs that you intend to use. It's a handsome pen (some say "boring," but I'll say "staid"), and I wouldn't have looked at the 823 if the 912's barrel were slightly thinner. Weird how big a deal that can be.

 

 

 

P.S. I bought the 912 about three years ago, and it was in near constant rotation. I de-inked it only recently, June 1, for the OPOM Challenge. I bought the 823 this year, and I'm very much enjoying it. I hadn't tried either pen (didn't hold 'em to check for weight and balance) before I ordered them from Rakuten vendors. No regrets!

Edited June 25, 2019 by ethernautrix

[pararis]

The extra $$$ bought me an ethereal feel that I could never describe. I keep being tempted to buy a second 823, but then I realize I can't use them both at the same time so the wisdom of such a decision comes into question.

 

I have both, sort of. I say sort of because I have a music nib on the CH912, and it only gets used for a specific purpose. I much prefer the looks of the CH912 -- so minimalistically classy and understated, almost elegant. I much prefer the arrow-shaped clip over the ugly ball on the 823. I don't much care for the torpedo shaped pens. On the other hand, the nib on the 823 is one of the most beautiful things in all of pendom. It's a joy to look at.

 

The 912 does not have the same feel in the hand that comes with the 823. As I said, I can't explain it. With the 823 I just feel like I'm using an instrument crafted by masters to put ink on paper just the way I want it.

 

My advice is to try an 823 if you can before making a decision. For me, the extra $$$ are more than worth the feel.

[JunkyardSam]

My History:

I owned a 912 WA and I loved it so much I got an 823 WA from Tokyo Pen Shop Quill. I sold the 912 WA to get a 912 SU. I also have 823 FA and 823 PO (both with nibs swapped from 743s.) I also got a 743 EF which lived in one of the 823s for a while.

 

I just wrote with my 912 SU and one of my 823s. I believe the barrels are identical in width. (The cap from each will fit onto the other.) The barrel of the 823 is about 1/4 inch longer than the 912 because of the rounded end... And the nib is about 1/8th of an inch longer.

 

Because of your dislike for the 74 I hesitate to recommend the 912. The 912 is lighter than the 823. I love the 912, and I've often said if all my pens were lost I might just buy a 912 with every nib size and be done with it.

 

Pilot's unique nibs are a lot of fun. FA, WA, PO, SU (and MS, which I don't have.) The PO is great for people who like ultra fine nibs with a good deal of feedback. The FA is a great soft nib. But it's the WA I would recommend to "normal" people. It's great. It's amazing how much that little upturn does.

 

I wish I could go back in time and keep the 912 WA that I sold. The WA is good enough it wouldn't hurt me to own two.

 

I adore the 912 but I feel like you better go for the 823, given how it seems like you dislike lightweight pens. Also, it seems like on average fewer people with 823 FAs have issues with their FA nibs. But consider the WA!

 

I don't recommend the SU, though, unless you're willing to have work done on it. Mine was somewhat harsh when I first got it.

[langere]

What distinguishes the 823 from the others is mostly its piston plunger filler. That is why it tends to be more expensive. If you aren't wedded to that (as appears to be the case), then you have many more options open.

 

Erick

[A Smug Dill]

if we are talking about fa nib for Latin cursive writing (not calligraphy that would require buying a specialty feed), then it seems the price difference is even more, while the #10 FA nib seems to perform extremely well in the videos that I have seen for that purpose (not calligraphy).

 

I think the Pilot Custom 912 14K gold #10 FA nib sucked. What I ended up doing to mine in frustration is 'well known' (or 'notorious') here, and I won't repeat it now, but let's just say I haven't found it to be good for anything, and I do enough cursive writing in Latin-Alphabet based languages (as well as in Chinese, and occasionally Japanese) to come to that conclusion.

 

If you just want a lightweight pen of significant girth, something like a Leonardo Officina Italiana Momento Zero would easily fit the bill; where it falls down is its nib, especially compared to the gold nibs from the Japanese Big Three fountain pen brands.

 

What distinguishes the 823 from the others is mostly its piston plunger filler. That is why it tends to be more expensive.

 

 

I'm not sure whether that is based on the cost of manufacture, or just perceived demand and/or 'prestige'. A piston-filler is something I personally tolerate (such as in the Aurora 88 and the Pelikan M600), but not at a significantly higher price than the same pen and nib supported by a converter-fill mechanism.

[MuddyWaters]

Have you looked at the 743?

The 743 is in the $300 range so defeats the purpose. The main thing I wonder is can the cheaper pen (912) on many of the essentials that the 823 has ?

[MuddyWaters]

I have both.

 

I love both.

 

I felt the 912, though, was a TAD fat. Just a tad. I didn't know it until I bought a 92 and realized, wow, I wish Pilot would make #5 PO nibs. I wouldn't have bought the 823 if I could get a 92 or 91 with a PO nib.

 

I prefer the black w/ST of the 912 -- and even the c/c. (If a semi-transparent black ("smoke") with silver trim were an 823 option, I would have chosen that.)

 

But I prefer the slimmer barrel of the 823 and (surprise!) enjoy the vacuum-filling mechanism AND the huge ink capacity (Noodler's Black, with no plans to change inks ever).

 

It sucks that I had to buy a 743 to harvest its PO nib. But... I did it (with the intention of selling the 743 one of these days). Which brings me to another plus for the 912. You could just buy the one pen.

 

Or you could buy two 912s with different nibs that you intend to use. It's a handsome pen (some say "boring," but I'll say "staid"), and I wouldn't have looked at the 823 if the 912's barrel were slightly thinner. Weird how big a deal that can be.

 

 

 

P.S. I bought the 912 about three years ago, and it was in near constant rotation. I de-inked it only recently, June 1, for the OPOM Challenge. I bought the 823 this year, and I'm very much enjoying it. I hadn't tried either pen (didn't hold 'em to check for weight and balance) before I ordered them from Rakuten vendors. No regrets!

Thanks so much for your detailed response! First of all, I love your one-ink way of life, and black is a great choice

 

Your suggestion about getting two 912s because of cheaper price is a nice one too to be honest though, I have not really looked at the type of jobs yet. With the pilot propositions, that Is a bit of a daunting task. My c74 has a soft fine medium and it is not bad, but I prefer either a hard job to write fast or a distinctly softer one to slow down my writing. The soft pilot nib is in the middle and doesn't really specialize at either.

 

However, I am a bit puzzled about the width of the pen. From my initial impressions, I also thought that the 912 was wider, but that may have been an optical illusion due to the pen being slightly shorter compared to the 823. The size comparison chart actually states that the 912 and 823 have the same widths (if that is not true let me know). I have had the experience that the length of pens, due to how they rest in the web of the thumb and index can affect the quality of the grip at the section. In the end, like you say, very miniscule differences in shape and size can definitely make a big difference. And, if the 912 is perceived as wider that could be just as important as it being actually physically wider.

[MuddyWaters]

The extra $$$ bought me an ethereal feel that I could never describe. I keep being tempted to buy a second 823, but then I realize I can't use them both at the same time so the wisdom of such a decision comes into question.

 

I have both, sort of. I say sort of because I have a music nib on the CH912, and it only gets used for a specific purpose. I much prefer the looks of the CH912 -- so minimalistically classy and understated, almost elegant. I much prefer the arrow-shaped clip over the ugly ball on the 823. I don't much care for the torpedo shaped pens. On the other hand, the nib on the 823 is one of the most beautiful things in all of pendom. It's a joy to look at.

 

The 912 does not have the same feel in the hand that comes with the 823. As I said, I can't explain it. With the 823 I just feel like I'm using an instrument crafted by masters to put ink on paper just the way I want it.

 

My advice is to try an 823 if you can before making a decision. For me, the extra $$$ are more than worth the feel.

Thanks for this, ethereal feel matters to me a lot too. It is not all about measured physical characteristics. There are many nuances to ergonomics that we do not represent in simple charges and tech specifications.

 

I do not have a preference for rounded or flat top pens, though maybe a slight one to flat tops, but I do indeed dislike the ball clip end of the 74. On its own though, like you, I could pass that over and still enjoy a pen.

 

I wonder if you would have had that ethereal good feeling if the 912 had another type of nib. Which do you have on your 823?

[MuddyWaters]

My History:

I owned a 912 WA and I loved it so much I got an 823 WA from Tokyo Pen Shop Quill. I sold the 912 WA to get a 912 SU. I also have 823 FA and 823 PO (both with nibs swapped from 743s.) I also got a 743 EF which lived in one of the 823s for a while.

 

I just wrote with my 912 SU and one of my 823s. I believe the barrels are identical in width. (The cap from each will fit onto the other.) The barrel of the 823 is about 1/4 inch longer than the 912 because of the rounded end... And the nib is about 1/8th of an inch longer.

 

Because of your dislike for the 74 I hesitate to recommend the 912. The 912 is lighter than the 823. I love the 912, and I've often said if all my pens were lost I might just buy a 912 with every nib size and be done with it.

 

Pilot's unique nibs are a lot of fun. FA, WA, PO, SU (and MS, which I don't have.) The PO is great for people who like ultra fine nibs with a good deal of feedback. The FA is a great soft nib. But it's the WA I would recommend to "normal" people. It's great. It's amazing how much that little upturn does.

 

I wish I could go back in time and keep the 912 WA that I sold. The WA is good enough it wouldn't hurt me to own two.

 

I adore the 912 but I feel like you better go for the 823, given how it seems like you dislike lightweight pens. Also, it seems like on average fewer people with 823 FAs have issues with their FA nibs. But consider the WA!

 

I don't recommend the SU, though, unless you're willing to have work done on it. Mine was somewhat harsh when I first got it.

 

I really appreciate your post considering the history that you have had trying these different models and nibs. Your suggestion that I may dislike the c74 based on weight also is likely a correct one. I do not like pens that are gaudily heavy like the Jinhao 159 for example, but I do enjoy holding something substantial, if I can still maneuver it quickly. With that said, like you say, the 823's weight may add to its appeal. I just hope that the balance is sound, with the centre of gravity being in the middle of the pen. I tend to be sensitive to those things as front or back heavy pens tend to lead me to grip the section harder and this leads me to having distal finger pain.

 

Concerning the WA nib, that is an interesting suggestion. I am still trying to determine whether I hate or love that aspect of the PenBBS pens (they come with slightly upturned nib). When it writes well, I do like the effect that it provides, but the PenBBS nib seems to have a sweet spot, and with my fast writing at a shallower angle, this sometimes leads to reduced contact on the page and skips or reduced wetness.

 

However, the (eventual) option of getting an 823 and a 912 with specialty nib is not a bad one (like ehternautrix seems to have done).

[MuddyWaters]

 

I think the Pilot Custom 912 14K gold #10 FA nib sucked. What I ended up doing to mine in frustration is 'well known' (or 'notorious') here, and I won't repeat it now, but let's just say I haven't found it to be good for anything, and I do enough cursive writing in Latin-Alphabet based languages (as well as in Chinese, and occasionally Japanese) to come to that conclusion.

 

If you just want a lightweight pen of significant girth, something like a Leonardo Officina Italiana Momento Zero would easily fit the bill; where it falls down is its nib, especially compared to the gold nibs from the Japanese Big Three fountain pen brands.

 

 

 

I'm not sure whether that is based on the cost of manufacture, or just perceived demand and/or 'prestige'. A piston-filler is something I personally tolerate (such as in the Aurora 88 and the Pelikan M600), but not at a significantly higher price than the same pen and nib supported by a converter-fill mechanism.

 

Would you then say that you would be perfectly satisfied with a 912 since you do not think that having a self-filler is a significant plus? This is given we were not talking about FA type nib.

[A Smug Dill]

Would you then say that you would be perfectly satisfied with a 912 since you do not think that having a self-filler is a significant plus? This is given we were not talking about FA type nib.

 

Perfectly satisfied? No. I know I can be happy with a Pilot Custom #10 F nib, because I have a 14K gold one on my Custom Kaede, which is a pen I like, and an 18K gold one on my (modern, as opposed to the original 1970s version) Pilot 'Hannya Shingyo', a pen I love. The size and weight of the CH912 are fine by me, so I reason that a CH912 with a F nib would be a perfectly competent and usable pen. However, it is just so... boring. I'd pick a full-sized Sailor Professional Gear with rhodium trim and two-toned 21K gold F (or EF!) nib over the CH912 any day, if we're specifically looking among flat-topped, somewhat lightweight pens with slightly tapered bodies. Or buy another Aurora Optima aurolide pen with 18K EF nib (which, granted, most likely won't write as much to my liking as a Japanese F nib would), but they are pricier of course. Or just reach for my Delta Seawood (light iroko) with a Fusion EF nib, which cost me less than US$200. There's just nothing special about the Pilot CH912 itself in my eyes.

[XYZZY]

The 743 is in the $300 range so defeats the purpose. The main thing I wonder is can the cheaper pen (912) on many of the essentials that the 823 has ?

 

Not sure where your $ cutoff is, but the 743 can be had from Rakuten for roughly $225 + shipping, or US Amazon for $240 + shipping.

 

Addendum: And pensachi.com has a special price of $200 for a black 743.

Edited June 26, 2019 by XYZZY

[XYZZY]

I thought I posted this response yesterday, but apparently not...

 

Not sure if you've seen this, but here's the obligatory KMPN link for people comparing Pilot Custom series pens. http://kmpn.blogspot.com/2011/06/pilot-custom.html.

[ethernautrix]

Thanks so much for your detailed response! First of all, I love your one-ink way of life, and black is a great choice

 

[...]

 

However, I am a bit puzzled about the width of the pen. From my initial impressions, I also thought that the 912 was wider, but that may have been an optical illusion due to the pen being slightly shorter compared to the 823. The size comparison chart actually states that the 912 and 823 have the same widths (if that is not true let me know). I have had the experience that the length of pens, due to how they rest in the web of the thumb and index can affect the quality of the grip at the section. In the end, like you say, very miniscule differences in shape and size can definitely make a big difference. And, if the 912 is perceived as wider that could be just as important as it being actually physically wider.

 

Oh wow! I measured the two pens, and the barrels are the same! Weird how the 912 feels fatter in my hand. Maybe it's the longer barrel of the 823 and overall balance (as you mentioned). I prefer lighter pens (two of my four "dailies" are Nakaya Piccolo Cigars, one slightly wider than the other, both super comfortable), and the 823 is the heaviest of the four, but I find it very comfortable for long writing sessions (unposted).

 

Pararis mentioned the indescribable difference between the 823 and the 912. Yeah. The 912 has many aspects to recommend it (my preferences): black w/ST, flat-top, c/c, wide range of nib options, not flashy (or... boring) (*laughs*). So it's funny to me that I prefer the 823, with its torpedo shape, vacuum-filling mechanism, gold trim, the tad fussiness of unscrewing the end cap for longer writing sessions.

 

But... when I decided I wanted ONE PEN, the IT PEN (a search which began more than 30 years and hundreds of trial-and-error pens ago), I wanted 1) PO nib (non-negotiable); 2) greater ink capacity (cos ONE pen); and 3) uh... imperviousness to UV rays (the kryptonite to my lovely Nakayas).

 

The 912 could have been a contender. It's easy to refill and seal Pilot cartridges, so the greater ink capacity demand could be met. But... the 823. You know? AND... that shut-of valve? I paid a seamstress to make a simple dress with a pen pocket in the skirt. I suppose there's some peace of mind that the 823 has the shut-off valve, since that's the pen I'll be carrying in the pocket. Even on long bike trips over smooth tarmac and cobblestones and gravel and sand. (I'll have to commission black dresses or skirts with the pen pocket, just in case.)

 

And, of course, my ONE PEN, my IT PEN, is actually TWO pens (or maybe four, the four that are currently inked). (THe 823, the two Piccolos, and a Pilot Falcon (SEF).) (The pen pocket is reserved for the 823.)

 

Two of the pens are filled with Noodler's Black, one with Pilot Blue, and one with Faber-Castell Stone Grey. (It was difficult not to add a fifth pen so I could have KWZ Flame Red in the mix, but... maybe in July.)

 

 

 

My other "demand" is for rigid nibs. The Pilot Falcon's SEF nib is "soft extra-fine," but it isn't soft the way I hold the pen -- at nearly a 90-degree angle. Yes, pretty much perpendicular. (I used to LOVE the Pentel Ceramicron with its long needle tip, like drafting pens.) And the SEF is my 2nd or 3rd favorite nib -- maybe tied at 2nd with the Platinum steel EF in one of my Piccolos. I get a hint of line variation with the SEF -- just a hint -- just the way I like it.

[JunkyardSam]

Langere - I don't know that the 823's vac filler makes it more expensive. I typically find the 823 listed at a lower price than the 743, which is surprising... And at what these pens are sold for -- cost of materials & production is certainly a small fraction of the price.

 

MuddyWaters -- many people love the balance of the 823, and it's not terribly unbalanced by any means. But if I do a finger test where I balance the pens on my finger - the 743 is perfectly balanced (but lightweight) and the 823 is slightly heavier but clearly there is more weight in the back of the pen. It doesn't feel "back heavy' (like a posted Prera or even a posted 3776 Century) but it does raise the perception of control into the middle of the hand rather than toward the tip. The difference is subtle, but it took some getting used to...

 

Also - I don't have a PenBBS nib so I can't comment specifically, but from looking at the photos it seems like PenBBS's upturned nib is similar to Delike's. I do own a Delike upturned bent nib and it just isn't anywhere near the quality of a Pilot WA. Not even comparable. No similar feel whatsoever.

[MuddyWaters]

Perfectly satisfied? No. I know I can be happy with a Pilot Custom #10 F nib, because I have a 14K gold one on my Custom Kaede, which is a pen I like, and an 18K gold one on my (modern, as opposed to the original 1970s version) Pilot 'Hannya Shingyo', a pen I love. The size and weight of the CH912 are fine by me, so I reason that a CH912 with a F nib would be a perfectly competent and usable pen. However, it is just so... boring. I'd pick a full-sized Sailor Professional Gear with rhodium trim and two-toned 21K gold F (or EF!) nib over the CH912 any day, if we're specifically looking among flat-topped, somewhat lightweight pens with slightly tapered bodies. Or buy another Aurora Optima aurolide pen with 18K EF nib (which, granted, most likely won't write as much to my liking as a Japanese F nib would), but they are pricier of course. Or just reach for my Delta Seawood (light iroko) with a Fusion EF nib, which cost me less than US$200. There's just nothing special about the Pilot CH912 itself in my eyes.

 

Thanks for the suggestion about the Sailor pens. I had found them at pen meets to be drier and their less round nib tip makes them lesser candidate for me who gets tired easily and moves pens around.

 

Also, I appreciate the other suggestions especially Aurora Optima. They are damn costly unfortunately.

 

When you say boring, are you referring to any particular part of the pen?

[MuddyWaters]

 

Not sure where your $ cutoff is, but the 743 can be had from Rakuten for roughly $225 + shipping, or US Amazon for $240 + shipping.

 

Addendum: And pensachi.com has a special price of $200 for a black 743.

 

Thanks for reporting that to me. It appears to be only a little more costly than the best priced 912 that I found. Unfortunately, the 743 appears sold out from pensachi at this time. I would also hate to fork over $200 for a pen with specialty nib options only to get a standard medium, whereas with a 823 I would feel more justified.

[MuddyWaters]

I thought I posted this response yesterday, but apparently not...

 

Not sure if you've seen this, but here's the obligatory KMPN link for people comparing Pilot Custom series pens. http://kmpn.blogspot.com/2011/06/pilot-custom.html.

 

 

This is indeed the chart I had been using. Thanks a lot. That page is excellent.