Jump to content

The Fountain Pen Network uses (functional) cookies. Read the FPN Privacy Policy for more info.  To remove this message, please click here to accept the use of cookies






Photo

Is My Lamy Safari A Counterfeit Fountain Pen?

lamy safari counterfeit fountain pen

  • Please log in to reply
20 replies to this topic

#1 fabioschl

fabioschl

    Dipped Only

  • Member - Silver

  • Pip
  • 4 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 08 June 2019 - 01:43

Hello!

 

I am new on the fountain pen hobby. Recently I purchased from a web store called lulustar.office, on ebay, a Lamy Safari Charcoal, fine nib, for a very good price (USD 14 + shipping).

 

However, when it arrived, the pen came with no box, no cardboard, no cartridges, no instructions manual, just the pen itself with a converter inside of it, packaged in a cheap plastic bag that only fitted the pen at all, nothing else.

 

I was really suspicious that I actually bought a conterfeit Lamy. However, the pen puts down a really fine line, much finer than my Parker Frontier made in India, which is supposed to have a fine nib, but looks more like a medium one. Also the pen produces a minimal feedback, which seem to be normal, considering the opinions from other Lamy Safari’s users. What bothers sometimes me is that the pen seems a litle dry and skips in very fast writing and traces, though.

 

Can I be before a counterfeit Lamy Safari? I took some pictures from it and wanted to create a topic in this forum in the FPN site, in order to collect opinions from more experienced fountain pen users!

 

Thank you all very much in advance! With my best regards!

 

1-overall-pen.jpg 2-overall-pen-2.jpg

3-overall-pen-3.jpg 4-barrel.JPG 5-top-of-the-cap.jpg 6-Top-of-tha-cap-close-up.jpg 7-far-end-of-the-barrel.jpg 8-nib-1.jpg 9-nib-2.jpg 10-nib-close-up.jpg 11-feed.JPG 12-converter.JPG 13-far-end-of-converter.jpg 14-writing-sample.jpg



Sponsored Content

#2 Mr.Rene

Mr.Rene

    Antique

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,550 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 08 June 2019 - 02:43

looks original...why the question...



#3 A Smug Dill

A Smug Dill

    飽食終日無所用心

  • FPN Supporter - Rhodium

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,718 posts
  • Location:Sydney, Australia
  • Flag:

Posted 08 June 2019 - 07:47

a Lamy Safari Charcoal, fine nib, for a very good price (USD 14 + shipping).
_...‹snip›...
What bothers sometimes me is that the pen seems a litle dry and skips in very fast writing and traces, though.
 
Can I be before a counterfeit Lamy Safari?


It could be counterfeit, and that has nothing to do with whether the nib writes dryly and/or is prone to skipping. Or maybe it isn't counterfeit (but I wouldn't bet on that). Most consumers like us cannot tell by looking at photos or even inspecting the item in person.

What/why does it matter, and if it's counterfeit, what do you want to do about it?

I bought two LAMY Safari pens in 'limited edition' colours on eBay, at similar prices you stated and they arrived in similar condition. They write fine as fountain pens, but when I tried to swap the nibs over onto LAMY pens I already have that I know are the genuine item, they won't fit. That convinced me the pens I got are counterfeit, even though I do not have conclusive proof... but then, so what? Do I feel cheated? Yes. Am I prepared to pay the local RRP for the 'limited edition' LAMY Safari pens (without converters!), much less the jacked-up prices from private sellers because those colours have already been discontinued a while back? No. Would I give up those two functionally OK pens, in colours that I wanted, in order to get a full refund of the uncharacteristically low prices I paid? No. It's a shame I didn't manage to get genuine items, with black-coated steel nibs to boot that can be swapped onto my 'stealth' matte black (genuine) LAMY cp1 pens, at low prices that would barely pay for the genuine 'spare' nibs alone. However, I can't honestly say those possibly counterfeit pens write any less well than a guaranteed-to-be-genuine LAMY Safari.

Let's give each other due respect, and approach discussion rigorously. I believe we're all peers and equals here as fellow hobbyists, with common interests in the acquisition and use of fountain pens, but no shared values and no obligation to offer each other moral support for one's narrative.

Don't think 'cos I understand, I care
Don't think 'cos I'm talking, we're friends

'6 Underground' by Sneaker Pimps


#4 dennis_f

dennis_f

    Vintage

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 767 posts
  • Location:Toronto

Posted 08 June 2019 - 13:38

If you google "counterfeit lamy safari" there are a host of websites and videos that detail how to do a one-to-one comparison of your pen to one that is known to be an authentic Safari.  Even if you don't have a known authentic pen, you can compare your details to the images those sites have posted. 

 

Check out some of these:

 

https://www.google.c...lient=firefox-b

 

check out the Goldspot video.

 

Also, an image search shows a collection of pictures from various websites that detail the differences between a real and a fake.  You could try visiting some of these links:

 

https://www.google.c...iw=1145&bih=781

 

 

Hope this helps.

D



#5 penzel_washinkton

penzel_washinkton

    Collectors Item

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 898 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 08 June 2019 - 14:38

The price seems too good to be true, in addition to being delivered with a bare bone packaging like TS mention.

If it is a counterfeit, gotta give props to how similar it is to the original one though.



#6 BaronWulfraed

BaronWulfraed

    Collectors Item

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,167 posts
  • Location:Lowell, MI
  • Flag:

Posted 08 June 2019 - 19:23

The price is alarming, yes... And that it includes a converter more-so. I don't think the Al-Star comes with a converter these days -- I know the Joy doesn't, and that's basically a Safari with italic/stub nib and a taper replacing the flattened cylinder barrel.

 

Perhaps the pen was previously used, and not new stock. Or they mostly throw the boxes away stuffing the pens in a plastic bag to reduce storage space (I just looked, they list a Safari with box and one cartridge for $19)



#7 fabioschl

fabioschl

    Dipped Only

  • Member - Silver

  • Pip
  • 4 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 08 June 2019 - 21:28

looks original...why the question...

Hello,
Well... because of the low price to be original, and the missing packing and manual that I think should come with the pen... thank you!



#8 fabioschl

fabioschl

    Dipped Only

  • Member - Silver

  • Pip
  • 4 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 08 June 2019 - 21:37

It could be counterfeit, and that has nothing to do with whether the nib writes dryly and/or is prone to skipping. Or maybe it isn't counterfeit (but I wouldn't bet on that). Most consumers like us cannot tell by looking at photos or even inspecting the item in person.

What/why does it matter, and if it's counterfeit, what do you want to do about it?

I bought two LAMY Safari pens in 'limited edition' colours on eBay, at similar prices you stated and they arrived in similar condition. They write fine as fountain pens, but when I tried to swap the nibs over onto LAMY pens I already have that I know are the genuine item, they won't fit. That convinced me the pens I got are counterfeit, even though I do not have conclusive proof... but then, so what? Do I feel cheated? Yes. Am I prepared to pay the local RRP for the 'limited edition' LAMY Safari pens (without converters!), much less the jacked-up prices from private sellers because those colours have already been discontinued a while back? No. Would I give up those two functionally OK pens, in colours that I wanted, in order to get a full refund of the uncharacteristically low prices I paid? No. It's a shame I didn't manage to get genuine items, with black-coated steel nibs to boot that can be swapped onto my 'stealth' matte black (genuine) LAMY cp1 pens, at low prices that would barely pay for the genuine 'spare' nibs alone. However, I can't honestly say those possibly counterfeit pens write any less well than a guaranteed-to-be-genuine LAMY Safari.

Hello, my friend, thank you for the reply!
Yes, I agree that there is not much to do in practical terms knowing this information, but, it was a curiosity that I really wish to quench...
Totally agree that, independent to be genuine or counterfeit, if the pen serves well on its purpose, it is what really matters.
Best regards!



#9 fabioschl

fabioschl

    Dipped Only

  • Member - Silver

  • Pip
  • 4 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 08 June 2019 - 22:37

If you google "counterfeit lamy safari" there are a host of websites and videos that detail how to do a one-to-one comparison of your pen to one that is known to be an authentic Safari.  Even if you don't have a known authentic pen, you can compare your details to the images those sites have posted. 

 

Check out some of these:

 

https://www.google.c...lient=firefox-b

 

check out the Goldspot video.

 

Also, an image search shows a collection of pictures from various websites that detail the differences between a real and a fake.  You could try visiting some of these links:

 

https://www.google.c...iw=1145&bih=781

 

 

Hope this helps.

D

Hi my friend, I have already searched some of these sites before. Judging by the appearance, it seems real, but I really cannot tell... Thank you!



#10 dennis_f

dennis_f

    Vintage

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 767 posts
  • Location:Toronto

Posted 08 June 2019 - 23:34

Hi my friend, I have already searched some of these sites before. Judging by the appearance, it seems real, but I really cannot tell... Thank you!

 

 

You could attempt this heat test I found on FPGeeks.com:

 

https://fpgeeks.com/...Safaris-on-eBay

 

(seriously, DON'T try the heat test!).

 

What's interesting about that thread is that all the external markings were identical to a real Safari.  It was the nib and the convertor/cartridge fit that gave away that the pen was a fake.

 

Given that your pen looks fairly identical to most Safaris, and given that the external markings are all correct, and given that no one can spot any real give-aways suggesting that it is a fake, the only remaining way to identify the pen as a fake would be to visibly inspect details that you have not shown in your current photographs and compare these to a known "real" Safari.  Namely, the feed -- which I'm going to assume looks correct -- and the cartridge convertor connection.

 

Do you have access to any authentic Lamy cartridges?  If you haven't bought any yet, you should do so and see if they fit.  Presumably, if they do, and if the external markings look correct, you probably have a real pen.



#11 dennis_f

dennis_f

    Vintage

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 767 posts
  • Location:Toronto

Posted 08 June 2019 - 23:43

... Also: this thread has a very detailed comparison of fake and real internal Safari details.

 

http://www.deskoflor...eit-lamy-safari

 

You could compare some of your internal details (which you haven't shown in your photos), to the photos on that site (but if you attempt to remove the convertor ring, as the person did in the final photo on that post, be very very careful.  As per her instructions, if you pull too hard on your convertor, you'll break it.  It should not be removable.  So a gentle little pull should reveal whether yours is a fake or not).



#12 AL01

AL01

    Eh?

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,184 posts
  • Location:A Texan - Wisconsinite
  • Flag:

Posted 09 June 2019 - 00:28

 Looks OEM.

 

 But the price is cheap...

 

 BUT in all honesty, I haven't been impressed by the way real Lamy Safaris write, (if that says anything.)



#13 Honeybadgers

Honeybadgers

    Donor Pen

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,411 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 10 June 2019 - 07:03

no, it's not a counterfeit.

 

I can tell because the converter has the lugs. The knockoffs don't.

 

That said, I will say that the EF nibs in the knockoffs is honestly better than the authentic ones. Which is sad. I buy knockoffs just to take the nibs and use them instead of my lamy nibs.


Selling a boatload of restored, fairly rare, vintage Japanese gold nib pens, click here to see (more added as I finish restoring them)


#14 dennis_f

dennis_f

    Vintage

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 767 posts
  • Location:Toronto

Posted 10 June 2019 - 16:50

no, it's not a counterfeit.

 

I can tell because the converter has the lugs. The knockoffs don't.

 

That said, I will say that the EF nibs in the knockoffs is honestly better than the authentic ones. Which is sad. I buy knockoffs just to take the nibs and use them instead of my lamy nibs.

 

 

Good catch on the lugs!  You have far better eyes than me.



#15 Zou

Zou

    Dipped Only

  • Member - Silver

  • Pip
  • 3 posts

Posted 10 June 2019 - 18:23

...
What/why does it matter, and if it's counterfeit, what do you want to do about it?
...

I'm not the OP, but for me the worry would be the safety of the materials used. Lead paint is cheaper. It's annoying to dispose of things with hazardous materials, since if you put it in with the regular trash to the landfill, lead gets into the animal population and eventually back to human beings. Total pain in the neck, and you're unlikely to get the little piece of paper warning you about heavy metals when buying some black market knockoff. It's annoying enough when you do get the piece of paper.

It's better to avoid it altogether. Tragedy of the Commons, or something adjacent to it, means the problem will still exist, but at least your conscience is clear. I don't personally care that much about the intellectual property part of it, but it's also a factor.



#16 A Smug Dill

A Smug Dill

    飽食終日無所用心

  • FPN Supporter - Rhodium

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,718 posts
  • Location:Sydney, Australia
  • Flag:

Posted 10 June 2019 - 22:27

I'm not the OP, but for me the worry would be the safety of the materials used. Lead paint is cheaper. It's annoying to dispose of things with hazardous materials,

 

The O.P. bought a pen at a price that is significantly lower than LAMY's 'official' pricing, and received a pen that is in working order but may be a counterfeit product. My question was what he/she wants to do about. Avoiding receiving a counterfeit product is out of the question at that point, irrespective of whether environmental concerns are on the buyer's mind; he/she obviously did not set out to buy something known to be counterfeit as a trade-off for a lower price (and neither did I, with my two 'limited edition' coloured LAMY Safari pens).


Let's give each other due respect, and approach discussion rigorously. I believe we're all peers and equals here as fellow hobbyists, with common interests in the acquisition and use of fountain pens, but no shared values and no obligation to offer each other moral support for one's narrative.

Don't think 'cos I understand, I care
Don't think 'cos I'm talking, we're friends

'6 Underground' by Sneaker Pimps


#17 1nkulus

1nkulus

    Thought2Papier via Ink2Pen

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,121 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 17 June 2019 - 01:26

The paint on the rim of the cap (6th pic) seems to have worn off. QC/Lighting/Used pen?

You could try swapping nibs with another Lamy pen, if possible.

 

no, it's not a counterfeit.
 
I can tell because the converter has the lugs. The knockoffs don't.

+1


Engineer :

Someone who does precision guesswork based on unreliable data provided by those of questionable knowledge.


#18 Mech-for-i

Mech-for-i

    Antique

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,801 posts
  • Location:Hong Kong
  • Flag:

Posted 17 June 2019 - 08:41

look genuine to me , I also saw the lug on the converter which convince me that this is likely and most surely a Lamy ; stated so, these days Lamy QC are not that great either, both my Dark Lilac and Petrol LE Safari feel cheap in my hand when I compared to my old early 90's production and I can feel it ; they both end up shelf queen now



#19 hbdk

hbdk

    Vintage

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 711 posts
  • Location:Aarhus, Denmark
  • Flag:

Posted 30 June 2019 - 10:52

Looks OK but as others have said, it is hard to tell, except for the converter. BTW Safaris, Vistas and AL-stars never come with a manual, at least not in Europe.


Edited by hbdk, 30 June 2019 - 10:53.

People who want to share their religious views with you almost never want you to share yours with them - Dave Berry

 

Min danske webshop med notesbøger, fyldepenne og blæk


#20 Honeybadgers

Honeybadgers

    Donor Pen

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,411 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 01 July 2019 - 01:57

I'm not the OP, but for me the worry would be the safety of the materials used. Lead paint is cheaper. It's annoying to dispose of things with hazardous materials, since if you put it in with the regular trash to the landfill, lead gets into the animal population and eventually back to human beings. Total pain in the neck, and you're unlikely to get the little piece of paper warning you about heavy metals when buying some black market knockoff. It's annoying enough when you do get the piece of paper.

It's better to avoid it altogether. Tragedy of the Commons, or something adjacent to it, means the problem will still exist, but at least your conscience is clear. I don't personally care that much about the intellectual property part of it, but it's also a factor.

 

Lead white paint is cheaper, but it's also a very different beast from what's used to paint pens. Leaded paint doesn't spray very well, and it dips very thick. Both are not ideal for making pens.

 

Also, lead is not even the slightest bit toxic when handled with intact skin. Lead is toxic when it is inhaled or ingested. Kids eating paint chips or inhaling lead dust from old paint removal or lead in the water getting into your GI tract are where your exposures happen. Divers handle blocks of raw lead on their dive weight belts every single day. So maybe chewing a on a pen painted with lead paint would be bad, but the likelihood of seeing lead paint on a pen is, for me, astronomically low. Also, you'd have to chew on that pen pretty aggressively for YEARS to even see a measurable increase in blood serum lead levels, and you'd probably have to literally completely eat three or four of the lead painted pens to ever see the mildest of symptoms of lead poisoning.

 

You are almost certainly not going to see lead paint on a pen.


Edited by Honeybadgers, 01 July 2019 - 02:00.

Selling a boatload of restored, fairly rare, vintage Japanese gold nib pens, click here to see (more added as I finish restoring them)






Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: lamy safari, counterfeit, fountain pen



Sponsored Content




|