New Lathe Tools

[Security-Man2k]

Hi guys,

 

I am looking to get some new carbide insert lathe tools. Anyone have any recommendations? I don't need a full set just the odd one or two.

[richardandtracy]

My advice is to avoid UK suppliers like the plague. They cost a fortune, selling you the same stuff as you'd get from China for 1/3 the price.

 

I have a Warco WMT300, basically the Clarke CL500/CL430 with a different paint job. The toolpost can take up to 12mm square tools. I have done most of my turning with a very basic triangular set, similar to this: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5Pc-1-2-Shank-Indexable-Carbide-Insert-Lathe-Turning-Tool-Set-W-Wooden-Box/173885931084?hash=item287c68be4c:g:vjkAAOSw6ZZavgm1 only using an 8mm shank and the TCMT090204 inserts. The inserts lasted a conservative 200 pens each, with 60-80 pens being the life of each of the three tips. I reckon 650-900 rpm works well enough at pen diameters, and isn't fast enough to frighten me unduly should something let go. When I started penmaking I used the lathe's 5" chuck, and the inertia at full chat of 1600rpm is terrifying. Obviously don't know the size lathe you have, but I'll assume it'll take at least a 10mm square shank in the toolpost, and possibly up to 12mm in a boring head in the tailstock.

 

In the last 2 years I have bought myself an SCLCR1010H06. It uses a 10mm square shank insert holder. The inserts they use (the CCMT060204) have a better cutter geometry & work better than the triangular ones I mentioned above. If you can get hold of the CCGT0602 inserts for aluminium, they are sharper & give an even better cut with plastics. The price is not bad - £4.99 inc 4 inserts (compared to £28 from Axminster Tools or £15 from ArcEurotrade). A sale is here: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SCLCR1010H06-Lathe-Turning-Tool-Holder-100x10x10mm-4Pcs-CCMT0602-Alloy-Inserts/254186913869?hash=item3b2eb8804d:g:6EcAAOSwTgJcpCfz . With 10 inserts, it can cost you a massive £5.99 here: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10Pcs-Blade-Inserts-SCLCR1010H06-CCMT0602-Lathe-Turning-Tool-Holder-10x100mm/312529669101?hash=item48c4384bed:g:3OcAAOSw8GtZP76S

The tool is less convenient than the triangular one, as you can't spin the toolpost around to get chamfers so easily, but the better cut makes up for a lot.

If you only buy one insert tool, let this be it.

 

The aluminium inserts can be got from here: https://www.ebay.com/itm/CCGT060204-AK-H01-CCGT21-51-Carbide-inserts-Cutter-blade-CCMT0602-for-Aluminum/153417322751?epid=19009377237&hash=item23b86290ff:g:NX0AAOSw~9RcjFZu . They tend to be a little more difficult to get from UK EBay, and sometimes at prices where the insert costs considerably more than the holder.

 

Other similar insert holders for the other directions are SCLCL1010H06 and SCMCN1010H06.

 

The matching boring holders for the same insert are:

S06K SCLCR06 (9.5mm diameter minimum)

S07K SCLCR06

S08K SCLCR06

S10K SCLCR06 and

S12K SCLCR06 (16mm diameter minimum)

Obviously you use the largest diameter you can.

 

For external threading, the SER1010H11 holder taking the 11ERA60 insert is good: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SER1010H11-100mm-Threading-Turning-Tool-Holder-Lathe-w-11ER-A60-Carbide-Insert/303001080467?hash=item468c459293:g:4FIAAOSwPWtcGJqc . Be careful to check the holder when you get it. The first one I was sent, the thread cutting bit of the insert stuck out of the side, indicating it was an internal cutter. The seller wasn't having it, and I had to reject it formally through E-Bay.

For internal threading, the insert to use is the 11IRA60, and that can go in the following holders:

SNR0008K11

SNR0010K11

SNR0012M11

None of these holders are small enough for direct threading of the nib unit threads, mostly because the insert is around 11mm on its shortest side.

 

The Parting tool insert holders are good - I was forever breaking my HSS blade when working in aluminium. Anyway the toolholders are MGEHR1010-2 for the 2mm wide MGMN200 insert or MGEHR1010-1.5 for the 1.5mm wide MGMN-150 insert. I warn you, I have seen photos of a failed support blade in the toolholder after the insert jammed up, so it may be worth considering buying a spare if you decide they work for you. I have not yet worn out one of these inserts, nor have I broken a holder.

 

 

In the long term you may want to consider a collet chuck, as these allow you to remove the work from the chuck, put it back and be sufficiently sure about concentricity not to need to worry too much. I can be pretty sure that the concentricty on my collet chuck is no worse than 0.01mm. Can't get anything like that on my 3 jaw chuck. The ER32 (3 to 20mm) size works well at pen sizes. I have a full set from 6 to 20mm, and smaller sizes are covered by an ER11 collet chuck I hold in the 12mm collet. The ER32/MT4 collet chuck I use in my lathe cost a whopping £17-something (similar here: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ER32-MT4-M16-Shank-Collet-Chuck-Tooling-Holder-CNC-Milling-Lathe-Tool-Brand-New/143222437883?hash=item2158b8f7fb:g:ewkAAOSwF~RcuvvR ) They do come in many sizes, I've just bought an ER32/R8 for my mill, and had and ER32/MT2 for my rotary table & drill press, then had a final ER32/MT3 for my lathe tailstock and the near useless milling head.

 

 

You may be amused to hear that on the Model Engineer forum I have seriously been told, by someone who should know better, that it's impossible to cut plastics with carbide inserts. Furthermore, I have also been told that all Chinese made tooling is rubbish and not to use it. Despite the fact the stuff the bloke buys from UK shops is now almost certainly Chinese made in the same factories as the directly purchased stuff. At one point I had a disagreement with one of the regulars about the usefulness of a BAP 400R-50-22 facemill. His Chinese made one made a horrible mess of the work. Mine was great. He was adamant the design was flawed & couldn't ever produce a good finish. In the end I sent photos of the inserts and the finished work. He got new inserts and got a finish as good as mine. The moral of the tale is: if the finish is awful, try different feeds & speeds, and if that doesn't work, change the insert for another.

 

Hope this saves you a bit of time researching it.

 

Regards,

 

Richard.

[Security-Man2k]

Thank you Richard that has been incredibly helpful. I have bought a basic triangle set like in the first link but from amazon, next day delivery ended up being £25. Then bought a cheap parting tool from ebay that will be turning up at the end of the month. I don't manually thread things yet i use die and taps at the moment i am leaving the threading for when i get my own lathe that works properly. At the moment i am using my bosses lathe and it's a bit old and beat up:

 

 

In the picture the gold coloured wheel doesn't work at all other than jamming it up. The automatic feed doesn't work as there are no gears in the end. The tool mast is only held by one bolt so setting it up to be perpendicular to the blank is a right royal pain. There are other things about it but i won't bore you. It still does the job though and i can make pens using it so i suppose i can't really complain. I mean i get free reign with it when i am not working. I will keep your suggestions in mind.

 

Thank you.

[richardandtracy]

Ahh.

Yes.

 

I have seen lathes that old, but never actually had the pleasure(?) of using one. When is it from? 1920's/1930's? Can't be much newer than that, and could be older. I have a near neighbour with a very elderly lathe that he has researched, and found (from the casting number on it) that it left the factory in 1898. To be honest, it' doesn't look much different from the one you're using. His one was quite inexpertly converted to a 750W electric motor from treadle power. Whoever converted it also thought a direct 1:1 belt drive from a 1425 rpm motor to babbitt bearings and no speed alternatives was a good idea. It took him a fair time to get a more sensible range of speeds, and now all he has to worry about is the 1/4" bend in the 7/8" diameter leadscrew and the missing bits of thread along it.

 

The thing about lathes that old is the lack of features makes you a more skilled machinist - otherwise you simply won't produce anything!

Yeah, you're right, I am desperately trying to find some good points...

 

I can see that with parting a single bolt toolpost like that would be, umm, interesting if not adequately aligned. Fragments of HSS parting blades can travel a fair way.

 

Well, have fun with it. Hope you get your own lathe soon. I got mine new in 2002, and have seen the eyewatering prices now asked for the same thing, they have more than doubled in price since then, while inflation would have added 50% or so. Ridiculous. I bought mine new because I wanted to be sure that, as I was learning on the thing having never touched a lathe before, that any problems were down to me & not the machine. Having had the experience you've had, maybe you can get away with a 2nd hand machine.

 

Regards,

 

Richard.

[Security-Man2k]

Well it's good to know that it will help my skills I can change speed on that one by changing the belts on the pulleys, it's the only speed control. One of the belt needs replacing now though. Knowing my boss we will be sharing the cost of that one. There is no measurment of how far you are moving the tool post or anything so i am getting pretty adept at measuring small increments by eye. Can pretty much turn off 0.5 by eye. Unfortunately i lost both the bids i was going for on ebay so i am gunna need to save up, that is gunna be hard.

[Inspector]

I use a high speed steel cutting tool called a tangental cutter made by Eccentric Engineering in Australia. Their name for it is Diamond Tool Holder. Unlike conventional HSS tools you, with the aid of the supplied holder you just grind the end so it is simple even for me, to sharpen the cutter.

 

https://www.eccentricengineering.com.au

 

Pete

Edited May 15, 2019 by Inspector

[Security-Man2k]

Interesting, that gives me another avenue if i don't get along with the carbide insert ones.

 

Thanks Pete.

[richardandtracy]

There are a lot of people who like that tool on the ME forum. Never tried it myself. Looks like it should work well, and has a much more intuitive angle of cut than the carbide cutters. But... I've pretty much given up on HSS except for drills. It's an admission that, really, I'm too clumsy or impatient to grind them properly.

 

Regards,

 

Richard

[Security-Man2k]

Yeah i thought i was good at grinding until i tried to sharpen them. I messed it up. Thing is i can sharpen drill bits ok.

[Inspector]

There is an American company that makes HSS inserts that interchange with carbide ones. Then you can have your sharp edges but at a cost. Maybe they or something like them are available in the UK.

 

https://www.arwarnerco.com

 

Pete

[Security-Man2k]

Thanks for that Pete I will look into it.