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Right Handed Sidewriter - Am I A Monster?

sidewriter right handed cursive writing

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15 replies to this topic

#1 rautej1

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Posted 29 April 2019 - 12:43

Hello fellow penmen,
 
I was wondering, since I started doing some research into cursive improvements, custom grinds etc.
 
I write in a righty side writer position, pointing my tip approximately towards the 10 o'clock position. (and also rotating the nib sligtly clockwise)
 
basically Oblique (left foot oblique) felt like nonsense to me.
I wanted to mimic the classical thic downstroke cursive with a stub, but realised this is not possible for me.
 
So to achieve this I would probably need and architect grind (going to try some and let you know)
 
But For this hand position, any stubs just look silly (thick horizontals and thin verticals).
Also flex nibs are strange to use, as I would flex them sideways, which makes them scratchy...
 
Any right-handed sidewriters out there? Any tips?


Btw here is a sample of my writing

Edited by rautej1, 29 April 2019 - 12:46.


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#2 hari317

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Posted 29 April 2019 - 17:25

Try a right oblique. Also called reverse oblique.
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#3 rautej1

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Posted 29 April 2019 - 17:31

Try a right oblique. Also called reverse oblique.


Sure, for my rotation, thats what I have been thinking of. Just looking for confirmation, that my way of thinking is correct :)

#4 Boniface

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Posted 29 April 2019 - 18:39

I write the same way. I like the look of stubs writing that way– where the thickest part is at the 8 o'clock position (the bottom left of 'e's and 'c's). I have some obliques (vintage German obliques), and I enjoy them, but I didn't find that they made much of a difference. I don't care much for flex, so I usually go for stubs and regular nibs.

 

I find that if I write in the normal position, the character of my handwriting changes, and I prefer the side-writing look, so I haven't bothered to change to a more normal writing position.



#5 rautej1

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Posted 13 May 2019 - 10:29

Pretty much the same with me. The "normal" position is very unnatural to me and my writing looks awful.

So I am now looking into two possibilities. 

Right foot oblique or an architect grind.

 

I am going to gradually try and post the results here so others like me can see if it is the way to go.

 

 

I write the same way. I like the look of stubs writing that way– where the thickest part is at the 8 o'clock position (the bottom left of 'e's and 'c's). I have some obliques (vintage German obliques), and I enjoy them, but I didn't find that they made much of a difference. I don't care much for flex, so I usually go for stubs and regular nibs.

 

I find that if I write in the normal position, the character of my handwriting changes, and I prefer the side-writing look, so I haven't bothered to change to a more normal writing position.



#6 morethanjustacat

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Posted 17 May 2019 - 07:09

I've been having the same problem! Glad to know I'm not alone in this :) Though, in my case, I've actually noticed myself shifting to being an underwriter when using stub nibs (though not when using other nibs/pens; sometimes I'm a bit disorientated switching to a non-stub pen after having used a stub nib for a while..). Something to get used to, but I do like my handwriting better this way.


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#7 rautej1

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Posted 21 May 2019 - 08:57

I've been having the same problem! Glad to know I'm not alone in this :) Though, in my case, I've actually noticed myself shifting to being an underwriter when using stub nibs (though not when using other nibs/pens; sometimes I'm a bit disorientated switching to a non-stub pen after having used a stub nib for a while..). Something to get used to, but I do like my handwriting better this way.

 

Thats what I have been trying to do. But it just feels wrong, my hand is crooked and my joints ache that way:) And if I try to re-position the pen between my fingers, then I lose all the grip and the pen almost falls from my hand. I just cannot find an underwriting position with a good triangular grip for me. Still waiting for the architect nib to come, then I will report.

With stubs, I just surrendered, and write with thick horizontals and slim verticals, looks strange, but actually can be pretty nice once one gets into it.

Another trouble is with flex nibs. In this hand position I can only flex in certain parts of the letters (like when writing and O - from 9 o clock to 5 o clock roughly) It can add some flair to my writing, but certainly is not what one would like to achieve:)



#8 morethanjustacat

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Posted 28 May 2019 - 01:10

 

Thats what I have been trying to do. But it just feels wrong, my hand is crooked and my joints ache that way:) And if I try to re-position the pen between my fingers, then I lose all the grip and the pen almost falls from my hand. I just cannot find an underwriting position with a good triangular grip for me. Still waiting for the architect nib to come, then I will report.

With stubs, I just surrendered, and write with thick horizontals and slim verticals, looks strange, but actually can be pretty nice once one gets into it.

Another trouble is with flex nibs. In this hand position I can only flex in certain parts of the letters (like when writing and O - from 9 o clock to 5 o clock roughly) It can add some flair to my writing, but certainly is not what one would like to achieve:)

 

Please do report on the architect nib! I'm curious as to how it feels writing w/ one as a side-writer.

Also, interesting thing: I've actually noticed that the stub pen I've been writing with frequently has been naturally ground to somewhat of a right oblique. I didn't know that steel nibs could conform to one's handwriting like that! In any case, it does make it easier for me to write with.


Sic volvere parcas.


#9 Drehirth

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Posted 28 June 2019 - 15:16

Have you been able to try the right oblique or architect grinds yet by chance? I noticed my hand feels more comfortable in a position similar to yours.



#10 torstar

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Posted 28 June 2019 - 16:12

good video

 

you are using the "stretch and move" technique with your hand instead of PULLING smoothly across the page

 

i do the same left handed instead of smoothly PUSHING across the page



#11 rautej1

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Posted 01 July 2019 - 10:39

OK, so I have made some pictures of an architect nib. One is a normal sized architect,20190616_111432.jpg

 

the other one is a custom cross concord nib by Bobby (reverse), where the effect is much more pronounced. IMG_20190605_102038_689.jpg

 

To be honest, I am not sure if it is the right one for me. As you can see, the line variation is not giving a very dramatic effect, the thin lines are only on a very small part of the writing.

Maybe for print letters, it is a bit better, but for cursive, I am not impressed... (by myself though, the nibs are fine, its not their fault:) )

 

Next one to try will be the right foot oblique, or reverse oblique in some taxonomies...



#12 rautej1

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Posted 01 July 2019 - 10:44

Thanks,

 

this is interesting to hear. I probably dont fully understand the terminology though. 

If by pulling smoothly across the page you mean the super fancy smooth stuff where you move fingers, wrist and forearm in the air as a single cooperating unit, I was never able to learn that. I need my wrist rested on the paper to be able to write legibly (not nicely, thats not in my repertoire:) )

But if you mean stretch the fingers to make a few letters and then move the whole hand and make some more, thank you are right, thats how I do it.

 

(this is quite strange talking about handwriting like that, one considers it natural, something learnt ages ago...)

 

good video

 

you are using the "stretch and move" technique with your hand instead of PULLING smoothly across the page

 

i do the same left handed instead of smoothly PUSHING across the page



#13 mana

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Posted 02 July 2019 - 10:57

I write with the pen pointing to 10 o'clock and also, like the OP, rotating the pen so that the nib aligns with the paper (I love italics and stubs so this is important but also quite natural). The thing I do to compensate for that angle is to rotate the paper about 50° counterclockwise.

So the paper is in front of me but aligned with my forearm and then some so that the pen more or less aligns nicely with the paper and downstrokes are mostly done "down" instead of sideways with writing happening at a similar but clockwise angle, sweeping away from my body and to the right.

I also rest my wrist on the paper so I have to move it up and away every few words. I have tried learning other grips but so far without luck.


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#14 torstar

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Posted 02 July 2019 - 17:03

Thanks,

 

this is interesting to hear. I probably dont fully understand the terminology though. 

If by pulling smoothly across the page you mean the super fancy smooth stuff where you move fingers, wrist and forearm in the air as a single cooperating unit, I was never able to learn that. I need my wrist rested on the paper to be able to write legibly (not nicely, thats not in my repertoire:) )

But if you mean stretch the fingers to make a few letters and then move the whole hand and make some more, thank you are right, thats how I do it.

 

(this is quite strange talking about handwriting like that, one considers it natural, something learnt ages ago...)

 

 

natural is not always the best way, most of the better writers smoothly pull their right hand across the page when writing

 

i started writing when the schools decided it wasn't evil to use your left hand, the teachers had no idea how to deal with it



#15 rautej1

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Posted 19 July 2019 - 07:55

Hi folks, its the long awaited update from a righty sidewriter being on a quest to find a nib that would write like a stub for regular people:)

 

And good news! I think I have found it!

Behold, the right foot oblique cursive italic! (custom grind on a #6 JoWo medium, 30 degrees right oblique from FPnibs.com) Cursive italic means good line variation, but sligtly rouded edges so you dont catch paper lints or scratch the paper when being clumsy.

What can I say, the pictures speak for themselves I guess. I have to rotate the pen slightly clockwise, but i tend to do that anyway (if I pick a position sensitive pen like L2K without thinking, I have to rotate counter clockwise a bit before i get to the sweetspot)

 

20190718_125046.jpg

20190718_125056.jpg

20190718_125103.jpg

20190718_124803.jpg

20190718_124808.jpg



#16 Autiflip

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Posted 30 July 2019 - 10:39

I write this way too, but tend to rotate the paper so it lies right for my hand (parrallel with my arm). I am working on not turning my nib so I wont have to use a reverse oblique to get some line variation. The line I get from stubs is also too wide for me since my writing is so small that every nib bigger than a european fine makes my writing totally illegible.





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