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My B&m Store Is Phasing Out Waterman Inks - Why?

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83 replies to this topic

#41 Intensity

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Posted 01 May 2019 - 17:00

But I don't think Waterman inks are going to be discontinued or disappear from the market completely

 

I also don't see that happening, yet anyway.  My local stores still stock it, and it's easy to find on-line.  I would bet by volume sold, it's still one of the highest purchased ink brands, along with other basic inks by Pilot, Pelikan, etc.  Waterman inks are one of the top recommendations on any forum I've visited for safe, reliable inks for use with any pen--modern or vintage.  Their status as high quality, safe, if somewhat boring inks remains.


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#42 A Smug Dill

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Posted 01 May 2019 - 17:11

Nothing wrong with wider variety as long as the time-tested champions are still available.


By the way, logically they only remain 'champions' -- notwithstanding their 'time-tested' history of being staples in the market -- if consumers continue to prefer them and buy them ahead of the competition from hip, trendy or gimmicky up-starts. Technical performance for particular applications (or particular personal preferences) don't translate to 'championship' in the commercial market, and if enough market share is lost, then there simply won't be a valid claim to their being 'champions' any more, but simply being fit-for-purpose products that consumers have abandoned in favour of other fit-for-purpose products that may not stand the test of time in the grand scheme of things.
Let's give each other due respect, and approach discussion rigorously. We're all peers and equals here as fellow hobbyists, with common interests in the acquisition and use of fountain pens, but not necessarily any shared values, and no obligation to offer each other moral support for one's narrative or position.
 

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#43 XYZZY

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Posted 01 May 2019 - 17:45

I went over to the ink review section...I scanned the first 10 pages...not one review for Waterman Ink...I am not say this is right or wrong...this just proves my point to my prior post.

Respectfully,

David

 

I think it's "right".  If something new has come to light, or the ink has been reformulated, then a re-review makes sense.  But for inks that have been around?  Continuously re-reviewing or extending an old review thread with "me too" replies is a distraction.

 

The best way to find an ink review is Google. 



#44 OMASsimo

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Posted 01 May 2019 - 18:54

I totally agree that reviews are needed only for new inks. So, the review section probably is the wrong place to look at if you want to know whether or not an ink brand is falling out of customer favour. But the latter, the question whether or not Waterman inks are falling out of favour, was at the core of my original question. 

 

I know that I can buy online. Call me a little cranky, but I prefer to buy my ink in a B&M store where I can test it and talk to a real person. And disappearing from the shelves of a B&M store might (or might not) be just the beginning of disappearing altogether.



#45 Intensity

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Posted 01 May 2019 - 19:08

I know that I can buy online. Call me a little cranky, but I prefer to buy my ink in a B&M store where I can test it and talk to a real person. And disappearing from the shelves of a B&M store might (or might not) be just the beginning of disappearing altogether.

 

I don't see how a sample size of one store choosing to phase out a particular ink brand is signaling the beginning of a disappearance of a well-established ink line.  There are plenty of small stationery stores that haven't been selling Waterman inks (but might sell Lamy or Pilot, or Parker), and there are plenty have been.  


“I admit it, I'm surprised that fountain pens are a hobby. ... it's a bit like stumbling into a fork convention - when you've used a fork all your life.” 


#46 OMASsimo

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Posted 01 May 2019 - 19:17

 

I don't see how a sample size of one store choosing to phase out a particular ink brand is signaling the beginning of a disappearance of a well-established ink line.  There are plenty of small stationery stores that haven't been selling Waterman inks (but might sell Lamy or Pilot, or Parker), and there are plenty have been.  

 

I couldn't agree more. That's the reason why I try to learn from the world wide community here whether this is just a totally personal business decision of my shop or a larger trend. If it's the first, I would be perfectly content and wouldn't worry.



#47 NeverTapOut

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Posted 02 May 2019 - 03:01

What you call "BSO...Bright Shiny Object" probably is the problem. And I care about it first of all because I'm affected directly as a user and second because I want to understand the reasons behind it. And yes, it might be an 'academic question' because, since I am a university professor, I want to understand the world around me as it is. Whether or not I have an influence to change things is another question. But given the small market that it is, a small number of outspoken customers in fact might have an impact on business decisions.

 

What David says makes a lot of sense to me and seconds my observations. I don't need a new ink every week featuring the latest gimmicks. I like some of the Waterman colours and use them for years, and functionally they are as close to perfect as it gets. I don't want them to vanish or be replaced by the latest hip colour that lasts only for a season. Waterman is one of the companies who stand by their ink products, a thing that I appreciate. They didn't venture into the hip short-lived trendy ink business yet. Nothing wrong with wider variety as long as the time-tested champions are still available. And by the way, Pelikan keeps their 4001 series, too. I still remember the days when MB ink was rather mediocre and GvFC didn't make ink at all. Now they seem to be fancy... I think it's mostly marketing.

 

 

I am in the same position as you...I use MontBlanc Inks only...The Standard Line because I like the characteristics of the ink. I don't have a MB dealer by me at all so I have to always buy online. Worse case...that is what you are going to have to do as well. I started with Waterman when I first got into fountain pens. Pelikan kept the 4001 Line however to grow sales like other companies they came out the Edelstein Line. Same with J.Herbin, Pilot, Diamine and the music inks, 150 year inks. MB is changing their standard line right now however they come out with LE Inks all the time to increase sales. Waterman has stayed the same. I never ventured into the high sheen and simmering inks...its a fad. I thought about it however I own expensive pens and don't trust those inks in my pens. Usually a store will stop selling a product when said product lags in sales. It does not mean the product is bad...it just means there is a lack of demand of said product in that market. You may like the product...The product may be good...however if there is no demand...the company that sells it will drop it...that is economics 101. I live in a very affluent market and you would think that the market would be able to support a MontBlanc Boutique. The two MontBlanc Boutiques we had closed. Why...I don't know...however I can say if there is no demand...there are no sales and eventually it will close...same thing with Waterman Ink with lack of demand in your area. You will still be able to get it...just online...Like I do and I have been a MB customer for 25 years.

I say this with upmost respect and I am not bashing Waterman Inks at all. I also use what would be called boring colors by some...MB Royal Blue, MB Midnight Blue, MB Mystery Black...and if going out there MB Lavender Purple...even though I retired at age 41 from working full-time and I am now 51 (and still have a hand in my business...probably 10 hours a week)...when I write something it needs to be conservative and professional...hence why I use what would be called boring inks. I also like dealing with directly with people like you do and like dealing with small family owned businesses.

Regards,

David


Edited by Jesus1, 02 May 2019 - 03:30.


#48 NeverTapOut

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Posted 02 May 2019 - 03:16

 

I think it's "right".  If something new has come to light, or the ink has been reformulated, then a re-review makes sense.  But for inks that have been around?  Continuously re-reviewing or extending an old review thread with "me too" replies is a distraction.

 

The best way to find an ink review is Google. 

 

 

What I would add to my post is if its not being talked about it moves to the back of people's minds...it doesn't mean that it is a bad produt...it means that nothing is going on with the product. If they did a rebranding or reformulation... people start talking about it again.



#49 TSherbs

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Posted 02 May 2019 - 10:16

 
I think it's "right". 


Me too. ;)

#50 NeverTapOut

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Posted 02 May 2019 - 12:12

 

I think it's "right".  If something new has come to light, or the ink has been reformulated, then a re-review makes sense.  But for inks that have been around?  Continuously re-reviewing or extending an old review thread with "me too" replies is a distraction.

 

The best way to find an ink review is Google. 

 

 

I agree with what your saying however when you first get into fountain pens  and no one is talking about a good reliable ink like Waterman, MB, Parker, J. Herbin...that has been around forever you don't know what to do. There is so much info out there. The only reason I start with Waterman was because I ran across Richard Binder"s Wedsite and took what her said verbatim...and I made his Blurple Ink...used it for years. There is a lot more information out there now than 10-15 years ago...Some correct...some not so much. And it is not just inks...its paper and pens as well. When I got into it I asked Brian Goulet...what paper do you use...he said HP 24 Laserjet...so I started using that. My first pen was a Franklin Christoph 1911...why...because then they were made in Raleigh...15 minutes from my house and I used my pens for work and the looked professional. Now I use pretty much the same thing HP 32, MB Inks, MB Pens...that's it. Everything else I sold or gave it away...I call it The Purge.



#51 NeverTapOut

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Posted 02 May 2019 - 12:26

Going back to the original post...It all boils down to supply and demand...and the grocery store example. If a store buys a product and the product is not selling...they are not going to give it shelf space...they will mark it down until it sells...try to blow out inventory...take their loss and replace with something that will sell...again this is Economics 101.



#52 Sailor Kenshin

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Posted 02 May 2019 - 14:35

Waterman inks: if you see 'em, grab 'em. ALL of them.

Back in the days when there were actual (art supplies) stores still selling pens and ink, I snagged a large size Pel BB in its original iron gall formulation for five bucks. Even at that time, it was a steal. Later in a different store, I got a bottle of Skrip Burgundy. When I went back for more, the store had closed.

#53 1nkulus

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Posted 02 May 2019 - 17:03

I don't need a new ink every week featuring the latest gimmicks. I like some of the Waterman colours and use them for years, and functionally they are as close to perfect as it gets. I don't want them to vanish or be replaced by the latest hip colour that lasts only for a season. Waterman is one of the companies who stand by their ink products, a thing that I appreciate. They didn't venture into the hip short-lived trendy ink business yet. Nothing wrong with wider variety as long as the time-tested champions are still available. And by the way, Pelikan keeps their 4001 series, too. I still remember the days when MB ink was rather mediocre and GvFC didn't make ink at all. Now they seem to be fancy... I think it's mostly marketing.

+1
 

But I don't think Waterman inks are going to be discontinued or disappear from the market completely; the only impact(s) to you is they may become less convenient and/or more costly for you to buy as a consumer, because they aren't as popular with other consumers any more and consequently there are fewer retail stockists over time.

I also don't like it when my favourite snacks, toothpaste, or other consumer products are discontinued by their respective manufacturers. Whether my local supermarket continues to stock what is still being produced is a different matter; I don't seek to know why it won't carry the products any more, but just to whom else I should give my custom if I want to buy those products I already iknow I like.

+1


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#54 1nkulus

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Posted 02 May 2019 - 17:07

Going back to the original post...It all boils down to supply and demand...and the grocery store example. If a store buys a product and the product is not selling...they are not going to give it shelf space...they will mark it down until it sells...try to blow out inventory...take their loss and replace with something that will sell...again this is Economics 101.

+1


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#55 Intensity

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Posted 02 May 2019 - 17:16

Since prices rise over time anyway and ink in unopened bottles can last for a long time, anyone concerned about the fate of any particular ink can just stock up on a lot of bottles now and not worry about it later.  


“I admit it, I'm surprised that fountain pens are a hobby. ... it's a bit like stumbling into a fork convention - when you've used a fork all your life.” 


#56 OMASsimo

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Posted 02 May 2019 - 18:59

That's true. And I also agree that I can buy online and that Waterman inks most probably won't disappear anytime soon. But you never know for sure. A few years back I had the impression that OMAS was highly sought after by connoisseurs and then all of the sudden the company was liquidated.

 

Anyway, if I get any indication that Waterman is in danger to discontinue their inks, I certainly will stock up before that happens. And I already look for a good replacement from other makers. It can't hurt to explore the possibilities.



#57 1nkulus

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Posted 02 May 2019 - 19:09

Anyway, if I get any indication that Waterman is in danger to discontinue their inks, I certainly will stock up before that happens. And I already look for a good replacement from other makers. It can't hurt to explore the possibilities.

 

Never put all your eggs in one basket/brand.  wink.png

 

No shortage of ink manufacturers, you are bound to find something interesting.


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#58 OMASsimo

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Posted 02 May 2019 - 19:34

I totally agree, we're living in the golden age of ink right now.



#59 1nkulus

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Posted 03 May 2019 - 00:16

I totally agree, we're living in the golden age of ink right now.

 

Practically drowning in it.  biggrin.png

 

I can't think of a colour/shade that isn't manufactured.


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#60 Mulrich

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Posted 03 May 2019 - 12:36

 
Practically drowning in it.  biggrin.png
 
I can't think of a colour/shade that isn't manufactured.

I havent seen a white ink.





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