My B&m Store Is Phasing Out Waterman Inks - Why?

[OMASsimo]

Yes, the packaging is new, I noticed that as well. I didn't get around to test it yet but I will (maybe tonight) before the last drop of old ink is used up. I'll report back here as soon as I can.

[Ron Z]

The reply to give in cases like that is, "Well, I guess that means that I'll have to go elsewhere to buy my ink, which means that I'll have a chance to see what else they have."

[inkstainedruth]

 

(1) Sounds like an excuse for a decision they've made to carry fewer Waterman pens until they can drop the line entirely. Newbies and other people who don't know all that much about FPs/choose not to learn much tend to buy inks from the companies that makes their pens, so if the pen sales fade away, the ink sales would. I have a feeling this is a more common problem for B&M purchases than online, where FP users tend to be more informed about pens and inks.

 

A lot of people DO think this way.

A few years ago, a friend of mine in Spokane complained vociferously to me about the limited selection of colors Waterman had in cartridges -- but was appalled by the idea of using a different brand of ink in her pen when I suggested it. Fast forward a couple of years: when my husband and I were visiting a couple of summers ago, she now had a set of Levenger pens (I think Tru-writers) which she used for her job as a tech writer -- but didn't like the Levenger inks so she used Chesterfield (the relabeled inks that Diamine made for xfountainpens.com -- now Birmingham pens) because she liked the jewel-tone colors and because she could get smaller 30 ml bottles).

Not sure what she's doing now for ink (since Chesterfield basically no longer exists as a "brand") because I lost the sample of the colors I tried -- I wanted to be able to find the Diamine equivalents to tell her what to get as replacements.

Me? I mostly don't do match-matchy. For colors OR for brand. Especially after I discover that vintage Skrip Peacock did NOT work well in a blue (Aqua?) Snorkel with an EF Triumph nib -- but modern Skrip Purple works GREAT in that pen....

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[OMASsimo]

Yes, this probably is also part of the problem. I can understand to some degree that uninformed users (so, probably > 99%) might think they need to use the original cartridges of the manufacturer, though most high-end pens come with converter if they aren't piston or self-fillers anyway. For bottled ink this doesn't make any sense. Of course, all manufacturers state that it's only safe and optimal to use their own inks. People tend to believe a lot of bs.

 

But I think that the reduced volume discounts on all Waterman purchase is more likely to be the real reason. However, the obviously reduced volume means that Waterman fell out of favour, at least with the customers of this B&M store. Probably because they are not as hip as Lamy and not as fancy as the other high-end brands. Their ink is excellent, in my opinion all one could wish for, but it's not decadently luxurious. Is the latter a necessary selling point nowadays?

[OMASsimo]

I've tested the old vs. the new ink and attach a picture here:

 

 

And indeed, the new ink looks a little bit different. I'm not sure wheter or not this will show up here on the screen, but the new ink is slightly more greenish and probably a tad bit lighter. I did let it dry overnight because this ink changes its colour over time (it's really "mysterious":)). Last night the difference was much more pronounced than this morning. Of course, the old ink could have aged in the bottle, you never know. I wonder why Waterman should have changed the formulation of this ink?

[gmax]

That's interesting - thanks for the update

 

The new Parker Quink BB has lost all of its green undertone, and does not change colour over time. It's good to know that the Waterman Mysterious Blue has kept its distinctive character

[amk]

I wonder if Waterman ink is in an awkward market space - stuck between the ballpoint users who complain if a fill doesn't last two months, and the new kind of FP users who want sheen and shimmer?

 

Waterman florida/serenity/nom-du-jour is a *superb* ink though. If it goes on clearance, grab the lot!

[Intensity]

The ink-brand matching is also encouraged by manufacturers. When I got my Pelikan M800 and messaged chartpak about doing a nib exchange, they also sent me a PDF document in which its Strongly recommended to use Only Pelikan inks for Pelikan pens. I dont have any Pelikan inks still, so I guess my pen is doomed

[OMASsimo]

That's interesting - thanks for the update

 

The new Parker Quink BB has lost all of its green undertone, and does not change colour over time. It's good to know that the Waterman Mysterious Blue has kept its distinctive character

 

I'm glad that the main characteristics of the Mysterious Blue were preserved, too. One of the strong points is that it's still a shading ink. So many other inks with nice colours are just so super saturated that they don't shade at all, which is a pity.

 

 

I wonder if Waterman ink is in an awkward market space - stuck between the ballpoint users who complain if a fill doesn't last two months, and the new kind of FP users who want sheen and shimmer?

 

Waterman florida/serenity/nom-du-jour is a *superb* ink though. If it goes on clearance, grab the lot!

 

I'm inclined to believe that it is. It's not as dirt cheap as Pelikan 4001, which often is/was considered a school and office ink (absolutely nothing wrong with that), and it's not as ritzy fancy as Edelstein, MB, GvFC, Cd'A, Visconti, and so on. If a fountain pen and accompanying ink is only considered a luxury accessory, then it would make sense that Waterman ink falls out of favour.

 

The ink-brand matching is also encouraged by manufacturers. When I got my Pelikan M800 and messaged chartpak about doing a nib exchange, they also sent me a PDF document in which its Strongly recommended to use Only Pelikan inks for Pelikan pens. I dont have any Pelikan inks still, so I guess my pen is doomed

 

I think that essentially ALL manufacturers claim that it's only safe (or at least optimal) to use their own inks. And that's not even a new thing, it's been like this for decades. When I grew up, you used whatever ink was available and no pen ever got damaged by that. Well, of course Parker Quink wasn't available here at the time and that certainly saved a good number of pens. I wonder whether somebody who can afford paying several hundred € for a fancy luxury pen shouldn't be smart enough to learn that this is a blunt marketing thing. But that's a rhetorical question.

 

::irony on:: Now I wonder: OMG! What can I do with all my vintage pens by Osmia, Matador, Greif, Merlin, Mabie Todd Swan, Onoto, Burnham, Conway Stewart, OMAS, Delta, unknown, and no-name? And what about my vintage Pelikan, MB, Faber-Castell, Sheaffer, Parker if their original ink formula has changed? Do I have to retire those pens now that the original ink is not available anymore? Well, this could be the sweet dream of the industry. ::irony off::

[Mulrich]

I'd take waterman serenity blue over equivalent inks from almost any other manufacturer. There are some more interesting blues out there but serenity blue's combination of color, dependability, price, and other properties are hard to match.

[XYZZY]

The ink-brand matching is also encouraged by manufacturers. When I got my Pelikan M800 and messaged chartpak about doing a nib exchange, they also sent me a PDF document in which its Strongly recommended to use Only Pelikan inks for Pelikan pens. I dont have any Pelikan inks still, so I guess my pen is doomed

 

One could attempt a bit of fun with them, to see how they respond:

 

Dear Sirs,

I received with interest your PDF that recommends only Pelikan Inks for my Pelikan pens. Thank you for pointing out to me the importance of matching ink brands. Since ink formulations have changed over time, would it also be fair to say that I should only use vintage formula Pelikan inks in my older Pelikan pens, and recent inks in my modern Pelikan pens? Or will old inks be compatible with newer pens? Will new inks be compatible with older pens? Also, since it is important to match ink and pen brands, I fear that I will need to change my ink buying habits: apparently I need to invest in inks from Pilot, Shaeffer, Waterman, Lamy, Sailor, and Platinum as well. Alas, I now fear that I may not be able to by any more Pelikan inks for quite some time. Or do you think it would be ok for me to use Pelikan inks in my non-Pelikan pens?

[OMASsimo]

That letter is perfect! Now, lets replace "Pelikan" also by all the other main players a send them off to the customer services. I'd love to read their responses, which, without any doubt, will be very polite.

[A Smug Dill]

What does this really matter? The market is so saturated (no pun intended) these days and consumers – people who are looking to spend money to satisfy their material wants — are just totally spoilt for choice when it comes to fountain pen inks.

 

I always find it funny (as in peculiar) that some people forcefully demand or press to know 'why' to things outside their control. Whether something is demonstrably a business decision, or one made under political pressure, or a change in response to the alignment of the planets, or an act of God is ultimately immaterial when the only thing that matters is that the consumer, user or citizen affected has no power to veto or reverse that decision. I used to work as the lead Problem Manager (yes, there is such a position, as wanky as it sounds) looking after multi-million-dollar-a-month outsourcing, and it was my job to know why when undesirable things came to pass, but generally speaking finding out why (after hours, days or weeks of work) did not allow me to undo or reverse something. The first step to take as the impacted stakeholder or his/her/its agent is to mitigate the impact (by activating contingency plans or moving to alternative solutions) as soon as possible, instead of trying to prevail over an unfavourable change or event and reverse it. The 'why' is largely academic and doesn't help anyone's wallet, unless you have a vested interest in preventing the same 'problem' happening elsewhere — in this case, to other brands of inks.

[NeverTapOut]

It's called BSO...Bright Shiny Object.

Look at FPN Ink Reviews...Newer Inks get reviewed while older ink brands go out to pasture.

Vanness Pen's (Nothing Against Them) Their operating model is getting the newest inks out there and we all flock over there to buy them.

 

It's the same with men's razors. I like a 2 blade razor...it doesn't clog...however marketing departments have led us to believe that more is better. A 5 blade razor is better than a 2 blade razor. I get a 2 blade razor to last for weeks...5 blades a few shaves. It is hard to find 2 blade razors now.

 

There is also more profit in the BSO and we buy more and more of it.

 

It has nothing to do with Waterman Ink...it a social trend. Newest iPhone is better than last year's model.

 

Respectfully,

David

 

[A Smug Dill]

Look at FPN Ink Reviews...Newer Inks get reviewed while older ink brands go out to pasture.

What would be the point of that? I still have most of a bottle of Parker Penman Ebony (as well as Emerald and Ruby) from the turn of the century, but doing a proper (even if short of comprehensive) ink review of it seems rather meaningless. I'd much prefer to review something people aren't already so convinced about, especially if it's something relatively 'difficult' (or costly, or inconvenient) to acquire as an Australian/American/Canadian/British fountain pen user who doesn't live in or often visit Southeast Asia; the point of the review would be to share either the great things or really bad things I discover about such an ink, so that previously fence-sitting readers could decide it isn't something on which they want to spend $35 or $50 to acquire, or that it is something now more desirable to them that it may be worth reconsidering in spite of the total cost of acquisition.

 

Anyone who wants to try a Parker Quink or Waterman Florida Blue can just go out and get one at relatively low cost (that's low enough to 'waste' and write off if the ink proves not to one's tastes).

[NeverTapOut]

I went over to the ink review section...I scanned the first 10 pages...not one review for Waterman Ink...I am not say this is right or wrong...this just proves my point to my prior post.

Respectfully,

David

[NeverTapOut]

What would be the point of that? I still have most of a bottle of Parker Penman Ebony (as well as Emerald and Ruby) from the turn of the century, but doing a proper (even if short of comprehensive) ink review of it seems rather meaningless. I'd much prefer to review something people aren't already so convinced about, especially if it's something relatively 'difficult' (or costly, or inconvenient) to acquire as an Australian/American/Canadian/British fountain pen user who doesn't live in or often visit Southeast Asia; the point of the review would be to share either the great things or really bad things I discover about such an ink, so that previously fence-sitting readers could decide it isn't something on which they want to spend $35 or $50 to acquire, or that it is something now more desirable to them that it may be worth reconsidering in spite of the total cost of acquisition.

 

Anyone who wants to try a Parker Quink or Waterman Florida Blue can just go out and get one at relatively low cost (that's low enough to 'waste' and write off if the ink proves not to one's tastes).

 

A Smug Dill,

I am not going argue with you...I agree with you. The shop is doing away with Waterman Ink because it's not selling.

Unfortunately in their eyes it's wasting shelf space...however a retailer will not say that to a customer. Products and Brands come and go. Waterman is not upgrading their line of inks like other companies. Case in point would be Pelikan.

They came out with the Edelstein Line with the fancy bottles to keep shelf space. MontBlanc is doing the same thing right now with their inks...they are revamping their line. Pilot Iro is launching new inks. J. Herbin and the shimmering ink.

 

B&M shops are going out of business all the time while online retailers take over.

 

I am not saying this is right or wrong. We as consumers chase the BSO...and companies supply it.

 

 

Respectfully,

David

Edited May 1, 2019 by Jesus1

[OMASsimo]

What you call "BSO...Bright Shiny Object" probably is the problem. And I care about it first of all because I'm affected directly as a user and second because I want to understand the reasons behind it. And yes, it might be an 'academic question' because, since I am a university professor, I want to understand the world around me as it is. Whether or not I have an influence to change things is another question. But given the small market that it is, a small number of outspoken customers in fact might have an impact on business decisions.

 

What David says makes a lot of sense to me and seconds my observations. I don't need a new ink every week featuring the latest gimmicks. I like some of the Waterman colours and use them for years, and functionally they are as close to perfect as it gets. I don't want them to vanish or be replaced by the latest hip colour that lasts only for a season. Waterman is one of the companies who stand by their ink products, a thing that I appreciate. They didn't venture into the hip short-lived trendy ink business yet. Nothing wrong with wider variety as long as the time-tested champions are still available. And by the way, Pelikan keeps their 4001 series, too. I still remember the days when MB ink was rather mediocre and GvFC didn't make ink at all. Now they seem to be fancy... I think it's mostly marketing.

[A Smug Dill]

I don't want them to vanish or be replaced by the latest hip colour that lasts only for a season. Waterman is one of the companies who stand by their ink products, a thing that I appreciate.

But I don't think Waterman inks are going to be discontinued or disappear from the market completely; the only impact(s) to you is they may become less convenient and/or more costly for you to buy as a consumer, because they aren't as popular with other consumers any more and consequently there are fewer retail stockists over time.

 

I also don't like it when my favourite snacks, toothpaste, or other consumer products are discontinued by their respective manufacturers. Whether my local supermarket continues to stock what is still being produced is a different matter; I don't seek to know why it won't carry the products any more, but just to whom else I should give my custom if I want to buy those products I already iknow I like.

[Intensity]

I went over to the ink review section...I scanned the first 10 pages...not one review for Waterman Ink...I am not say this is right or wrong...this just proves my point to my prior post.

Respectfully,

David

 

In all fairness, the Waterman inks have been around for ages, and there are lots and lots of reviews available on them. So there's much less motivation to create new reviews of those inks. I did write one for Brown, but that was because it was the first recent fountain pen ink I had purchased, and I was excited about it. At that time though I had already googled Waterman Brown and had a pretty good idea of its color and performance from many other discussions about it and the rest of Waterman inks.