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Sailor 14K Pro Gear Slim Nibs - Line Width And Ink Flow Question


Intensity

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I'm getting an LE Sailor Pro Gear Slim pen, and my nib choices are all 14K EF through M. I really wish I could get the music nib, but it's not available for the pen model I want (I've asked the shop for which this LE pen was made). So I have been vacillating between finally trying a Japanese EF and some worry about the EF being pretty dry and thus making inks look more pale.

 

My question is about the ink flow for 14K EF Sailor nibs -- can the ink flow be increased to what one might call "wet"? I don't know if I'd dare to use a brass shim for the fear of damaging the extremely fine amount of tipping and also scratching the insides of the tines or just try to ever so slightly push the tines away from the feed. Do you think the 14K F nib would write significantly wetter?

 

On a general note, which nib width would you recommend for a first-time Japanese fountain pen user? (It's not strictly true, I did have a Japanese pen for a time, but it came to me with a custom cursive italic grind from a Broad, so it doesn't really count, since it had a modified nib).

“I admit it, I'm surprised that fountain pens are a hobby. ... it's a bit like stumbling into a fork convention - when you've used a fork all your life.” 

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I have a Sailor EF - and I like it.

I don't think it is dry, no need to mess around with it. However, it is really!! fine - not comparable to Western EFs.

 

If you usually use Western F, a Sailor M would be comparable. If you usually use and like Western EF nibs, get a Sailor F.

 

If you want to go thinner, get the Sailor EF.

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Sounds good, I think I do actually want Sailor EF, if at least for variety.

 

Western Fine and Medium are not my cup of tea, though I have plenty of those. Either very fine or very broad and hopefully stubbish or italic is what I tend to appreciate the most. And the wetter the better! If it's a somewhat springy extra fine, then there's some natural character to the writing just from normal writing (not doing any flex, just normal different pressure on down and cross strokes). Wider modern nibs usually have more of that blobby round tipping, which I despise.

 

Having used some vintage pens with really fine (XF and XXF) writing nibs that put down a very concentrated line--probably due to the combination of their simple ebonite feeds and larger ink capacity--I know it's possible to have a super fine line and a good amount of ink at the same time. The Sailor pen doesn't have either, but I can still hope it's not going to be super stingy with ink like my Nakaya was.

“I admit it, I'm surprised that fountain pens are a hobby. ... it's a bit like stumbling into a fork convention - when you've used a fork all your life.” 

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I have a Sailor Pro Gear Slim F, and I'd say it puts down about as much ink as my vintage Waterman extra fine nibs, but it feels very different. I have heard that the tipping on Sailor nibs is unique, and I suspect that quality is what I am feeling.

 

I also have a Sailor Pro Gear Slim B, which is quite wet but similarly makes one aware of some difference in the tipping.

 

I have never used a Sailor XF.

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Afraid I can't be of much help. I only have one Sailor pen, and I went for the zoom nib (which is fun but takes a little getting used to because you have to hold the pen at different angles to get the different writing widths). And it's a little fussy about paper (it had a lot of feedback in an Eco Qua notebook, but was quite lovely to write with on Tomoe River paper).

I know that in general Japanese nibs tend to run narrower than their Western counterparts. I do have a Pilot Decimo with an F nib and I love it. But how it compares to a Sailor F or EF? Don't know.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

"It's very nice, but frankly, when I signed that list for a P-51, what I had in mind was a fountain pen."

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On a general note, which nib width would you recommend for a first-time Japanese fountain pen user?

A Fine nib. That's what the Japanese fountain pens brand of renown really excel at, and put the Western brands to shame when it comes to nibs of the same nib width grade.

 

Or a Fine-Medium or Medium-Fine for someone more conservative and more used to 'Western' Extra Fine, Fine or Medium nibs and isn't actually looking for a significantly different experience.

 

Personally, I don't see the point of recommending a Japanese pen at all if someone just wants a pen that writes like a 'Western' Broad or Stub nib but bears the distinction of being 'made in Japan', any more than I'd recommend that an English-as-mother-tongue speaker learn a tonal Asian language just for the hell of it. I'd gladly go out on a limb and say it's significant easier for an English-speaker to learn Japanese (which has a kana writing system that is relatable to an alphabet, and can readily be 'romanised') than to learn Cantonese, so it would make no sense for me to recommend tackling Cantonese as a foreign language to learn unless they really want to be speaking Cantonese, instead of just "some Asian language"; but then it shouldn't be up to me to recommend that they learn Japanese either, and so I just wouldn't make any recommendation in that regard.

I endeavour to be frank and truthful in what I write, show or otherwise present, when I relate my first-hand experiences that are not independently verifiable; and link to third-party content where I can, when I make a claim or refute a statement of fact in a thread. If there is something you can verify for yourself, I entreat you to do so, and judge for yourself what is right, correct, and valid. I may be wrong, and my position or say-so is no more authoritative and carries no more weight than anyone else's here.

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Thank you, I went with EF in the end. If it's close to what I consider needlepoint, that's very much okay. I only have one pen I would consider needlepoint, and it's a vintage flexy number I got a while ago from Greg Minuskin. I don't use that pen often due to its excellent condition, trying to keep it that way. Would be good to have another, with a converter, that I would not worry about using with any ink.

“I admit it, I'm surprised that fountain pens are a hobby. ... it's a bit like stumbling into a fork convention - when you've used a fork all your life.” 

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I know it's possible to have a super fine line and a good amount of ink at the same time. The Sailor pen doesn't have either, but I can still hope it's not going to be super stingy with ink like my Nakaya was.

Thank you, I went with EF in the end. If it's close to what I consider needlepoint, that's very much okay.

I agree it's certainly possible for different nibs that lay down (almost) equally narrow lines to have observably different levels of 'wetness'. The 14K gold EF nib on my Sailor Promenade lays down wetter lines than one of my two ruthenium-coated 21K gold 1911 Fine nibs.

I endeavour to be frank and truthful in what I write, show or otherwise present, when I relate my first-hand experiences that are not independently verifiable; and link to third-party content where I can, when I make a claim or refute a statement of fact in a thread. If there is something you can verify for yourself, I entreat you to do so, and judge for yourself what is right, correct, and valid. I may be wrong, and my position or say-so is no more authoritative and carries no more weight than anyone else's here.

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Wetter is good! I'm crossing my fingers that mine will be a wet writer.

“I admit it, I'm surprised that fountain pens are a hobby. ... it's a bit like stumbling into a fork convention - when you've used a fork all your life.” 

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Don't worry about flow with Sailor pens. The feed is more than capable for an EF nib. If you happen to find the 'ink flow' inhibited, it would be the nib grind. But I won't mess with that.

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I have had several Sailor EF nibs. They are spectacular. The ink flow is always good, never too dry. If it happens to be too dry, DO NOT try messing around with the tines, you will inevitably misalign them. Just send the pen back.

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  • 1 year later...

@Intensity

I hope it went all well with your EF. Would you have any hands on experience with the nib to share? I am currently strongly inclined to also get the Sailor 14k EF nib and would like to understand if it has met your expectations.

 

Many thanks.

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Yes! I have now tried quite a few Sailor nibs. In order, from thinnest line to widest:

 

14K EF

21K EF

14K F

21K F

21K M

14K MS / 21K MS (music / stub nibs, about equivalent to each other)

 

The above is all in the small and medium-sized pens. I have not tried the large King of Pen variants.

 

 

The EF nibs are excellent! They are not at all scratchy (unless you get a rare misaligned nib, but so far in my experience Sailor nib QC has been impeccable). There's a very soft feedback, like writing on ultra fine fine grit sandpaper. It's great for control, as if the nibs were highly polished, I think it'd be difficult to do neat handwriting quickly with such fine nibs.

 

The 21K EF nib is larger size and is thus longer than the 14K EF nib. The 14K nib is also more rigid. It's not that the 21K nib is flexible, it just feels like the material itself is less rigid, easier to deform but not really springy. As a result, because these are NOT meant to be flexible nibs (they are embossed with H-EF = hard extra fine), and the tipping is so absolutely tiny, it takes thought and care to write with a light hand using the 21K nib. Because if you start pressing too hard, over time the tines might get misaligned, or else the tine spacing might increase and the line width won't be so fine anymore. The 14K nib can withstand more incidental pressure without deforming.

 

So if you want a consistent extra fine line with greater control, go for the pens with the smaller 14K EF nib. They are perfect for sketching and writing. If you want a slow, relaxed, soft writing experience with a light touch, go for the 21K EF nib that comes in pens with thicker sections.

 

My 21K EF nib writes ever so slightly thicker than 14K EF. And it's easier to get a thicker line with 21K EF if you press down too much.

 

My 14K F is much thinner than 21K F. My 21K F writes almost like a medium fine.

 

Personally I thought that the Pro Gear regular size was perfect for me. Those only come with the 21K nibs. But now I realize I prefer the 14K nib for its greater rigidity and shorter length. I've even rationalized the smaller pen size and section size as a result. Plus you can always use these smaller pens posted with ease. And I almost never post my pens. And finally, the 14K nib pen variants are significantly cheaper (Pro Gear Slim, 1911 Standard) than the 21K medium nibs (Pro Gear Standard, Pro Gear Realo, 1911 Large, etc.)

 

Another curious property of Sailor nib grinds is that most of them are able to write decently to perfectly in reverse orientation. So my Fines write perfectly as Extra Fines in reverse orientation, as do my Mediums. Even my extra fines can do that to some extent, although the line width is super fine in reverse and quite dry.

“I admit it, I'm surprised that fountain pens are a hobby. ... it's a bit like stumbling into a fork convention - when you've used a fork all your life.” 

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Thanks so much for sharing the experience, @Intensity. Everything is perfectly confirming my previous decision to go for the 14k EF.

 

Do you have any strong views on inks to use with these Sailor EF nibs?

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I have successfully used many different ink types. Both dry inks with low lubrication like Graf von Faber-Castell and well-flowing lubricated inks like Sailor Jentle work perfectly. Currently have GvFC Violet Blue in one of my 14K EF.

 

If you want to preserve fine line width, don't use very wet inks like Pilot Iroshizuku, as they tend to increase effective line width. EF will generally be on the dry side, but it matches well with the purpose of skinny lines. Also easier to use on crappy paper due to the overall low ink output.

 

One of the nice things about these Sailor pens is that they seal the nibs and feeds quite well when closed, so the ink doesn't evaporate easily.

Edited by Intensity

“I admit it, I'm surprised that fountain pens are a hobby. ... it's a bit like stumbling into a fork convention - when you've used a fork all your life.” 

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