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Graf Von Faber-Castell Ink Line - Impressions?

gvfc graf von faber-castell ink

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#21 Intensity

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Posted 12 April 2019 - 16:43

That's certainly a great endorsement, thank you :)


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#22 chromantic

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Posted 12 April 2019 - 17:18

I have Deep Sea Green, Moss Green and Gulf Blue and am very pleased with them (have Garnet, too, but haven't tried it yet). DSG's muted grey/blue color is mysteriously appealing, Gulf is very pleasant; Moss is the real kicker, though, a saturated dark green with dark red sheen. I'm going to reorder soon and plan to add Burned Orange and possibly Turquoise and Shocking Pink just for grins. Great smooth-writing ink. I've had DSG in a Pelikano P450 forever and it writes straight off no matter how long it sits unused (4001 Pink does too in it's P450, so some of that might be the pen).

 

For anyone fretting about the cost of the 75 ml bottles, get cartridges. Faber sells them direct for $3.50/6 carts, dirt cheap compared with other brands (which usually cost ~$1 a cart) with $5 s/h conus. Buy more packs to defray the cost, though I'm not sure where the cut-off point is.


Edited by chromantic, 12 April 2019 - 17:19.

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#23 MsRedpen

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Posted 12 April 2019 - 18:00

I have Violet blue, Stone Grey, Hazelnut Brown, Cobalt Blue, Moss Green and Olive green (in the order of my colour preference).

All are on a slightly dry side, perfect for GvFC, FC and Pelikans.
No feathering observed with any, on Fabriano, Rhodia or smoother.
I love how they behave. Easy flushing too!

Violet blue is a shading champion, and colour heavily depends on the pen and paper. It is also dryest of the lot and quite water resistant. No smearing observed

Stone grey - agree with previous posts fully :)

Hazelnut brown is true warm brown, though showing reddish undertone. Not water resistant at all.

Cobalt blue is a nice everyday blue, Moss green was one of my favourite greens until Diamine Forest took over.

Olive green... still have to pop that cart in Ambition and see what will come out.

PM me if you would like few samples.

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#24 Antenociticus

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Posted 12 April 2019 - 22:41

 

I'd really appreciate some photos of Gulf Blue, there's a good Visvamitra review but not much more info; I may already have something close, Kon Peki (!) unexpectedly comes out as a baby blue in an EF Studio.

 

Haven't used the Gulf Blue yet, and my scanner currently has about half a ton of books on top of it, but I'll see what I can do.

 

I don't have any Kon Peki to compare it with.



#25 Antenociticus

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Posted 12 April 2019 - 22:42

Maybe "bloat" is a better word for what I was trying to describe!

 

I call this "spread".



#26 ENewton

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Posted 13 April 2019 - 14:19

I tried a sample of Violet Blue, and although I don't mind a delicate, powdery look, the ink was probably the driest I have ever used.  Perhaps an exceedingly wet pen would compensate enough for the dryness of the ink to provide a pleasant writing experience. 



#27 Herrjaeger

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Posted 13 April 2019 - 18:04

I have Moss Green, Hazelnut Brown, and Stone Grey. All have been lovely inks both in color and performance. I can’t add much to the technical comments above, but I’m glad I have them. From the price standpoint, I believe Endless pens is having a sale on them at the moment. You have to “preorder” them ( that appears to be their business model), but the price is under $20/bottle. Samples are always good.

#28 Intensity

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Posted 13 April 2019 - 19:07

They did earlier, but that’s over now. The inks are listed as out of stock.

“I admit it, I'm surprised that fountain pens are a hobby. ... it's a bit like stumbling into a fork convention - when you've used a fork all your life.” 


#29 sciumbasci

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Posted 13 April 2019 - 19:59

The bottle seems very impractical when the level of ink get pretty low. Very pretty, but how do you get the last bits out if you dont have a vial or another bottle?
Even Quink bottles are designed to be laid on the side when its nearly empty!

#30 Herrjaeger

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Posted 13 April 2019 - 20:01

The bottle seems very impractical when the level of ink get pretty low. Very pretty, but how do you get the last bits out if you dont have a vial or another bottle?
Even Quink bottles are designed to be laid on the side when its nearly empty!

Syringes are handy for this.

#31 roklpokl

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Posted 15 April 2019 - 08:32

Their inks are stated as "Document proofed" on FC website. Does this mean the inks are iron gall or is this something else?



#32 Intensity

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Posted 15 April 2019 - 19:08

Their inks are stated as "Document proofed" on FC website. Does this mean the inks are iron gall or is this something else?

 

They are definitely not IG-based, and they are not even very water-resistant, unfortunately.  I think what they mean--and it's a bit misleading for the buyers--is that their inks have high fading resistance and also *some* water resistance, such that they won't all wash off or else will leave a readable line but will show that a document has been tampered with.

 

Water resistance is not a property reserved for iron gall or pigment inks--plenty of dye-based inks have great water resistance.


Edited by Intensity, 15 April 2019 - 19:10.

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#33 Antenociticus

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Posted 15 April 2019 - 19:19

Their inks are stated as "Document proofed" on FC website. Does this mean the inks are iron gall or is this something else?

 

It's not iron-gall ink.

 

The Faber-Castell "Product Knowledge Manual", which I found when looking for information about what exactly it means to be ISO 12757-2 certified, as these inks are claimed to be, contains the text in italic that follows my rambling.

 

Strangely, the ISO 12757-2 standard is for ballpoint pen inks, not fountain pen inks. (There isn't an ISO standard for fountain pens inks, I have since learned.) But there is at least some kind of statement of how an ISO 12757-2 certified ink is supposed to behave. Note that it's a standard for the use of inks in documents, rather than general use. The inks, for example, aren't claimed to be indestructible, but will resist attempts at forgery – you can't erase them, and attempts at tampering will reveal themselves. This basically means that some of the colour will wash away, but what was written will remain legible.

 

Some of these seem to be more waterproof than others. Gulf Blue is impressively resilient. Burned Orange barely seems water-resistant at all. Cobalt Blue has quite a complex chromatography, and leaves a purple line while a brown-ish black and bright cyan separate out.

 

From the F-C handbook:

 

Various international standards provide the basis for testing the indelible writing qualities of pastes and inks. (Ballpoint pen paste: ISO 127 57-2, Ballpoint pen liquid ink: ISO 14145-2)
 
In order to comply with these standards, the paste or ink must demonstrate unerasability, ethanol resistance, hydrochloric acid resistance, ammonia resistance, bleaching resistance, water resistance and light-fastness within prescribed test parameters as well as guarantee a certain writing behaviour. Only then can a paste or ink be called indelible ("document-proof”).
 
For the purpose of achieving this indelible writing status, certain highly resistant colourants (colour pigments or dyestuffs) can be admixed to the paste. Refill leads bearing the ISO logo thus possess a high writing quality and are suitable for indelible writing purposes.
 
Water resistance
Lines are water-resistant if they remain visually close to unchanged and are not perceptibly dissolved after applying a water droplet.
 
The water resistance of the paste or ink is achieved by the use of water-resistant pigments or the addition of fixing resins.
 
ISO 12757-2 standard provides the basis for testing the water resistance of pastes and ISO 14145-2 for inks. Refill leads bearing the ISO logo are endorsed for indelible writing.

Edited by Antenociticus, 15 April 2019 - 19:22.


#34 roklpokl

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Posted 16 April 2019 - 08:14

Thank you Intensity and Antenociticus for all the information what 'Document proofed' actually means. Have always wanted to try GvFC inks but thought they might require a bit more maintenance due to being 'Document proofed'. Will definitely try them now :)



#35 Mulrich

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Posted 16 April 2019 - 16:05

I had some water spill on a piece of paper with GvFC Moss Green just last week. I quickly cleaned up the spill so I don't know how the ink holds up to longer exposure but the writing was still easily legible (the color definitely washed away though). Moss Green may not have perfect water resistance but's far better than many inks I use.

 

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#36 aurore

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Posted 19 April 2019 - 09:13

I used to be a big fan of GvFC inks. I have used 5 of them: Cobalt Blue, Midnight Blue, Hazelnut, Moss Green and Burned Orange. I liked them all somewhat, despite some of them are rather dry they flow well anyway. The water resistance/document proofness is questionable: yes, those of them declared as document proof are a bit water resistant (but a lot less than Pilot Blue-Black) and quite UV resistant (but not a lot, I have tested them). Quite a few inks are as much or even more water/UV resistant while not claimed being document proof (such as Dailor Doyou). 

The point is while I like the bottles (despite being uncomfortable to fill from and have got a bit weird caps) and these inks perform rather well, there is nothing much exceptional about them imho and some of the even look below average to my eyes (such as Garnet and Turquoise).

On the other hand GvFC pens are usually rather wet writers and indeed these inks perform better in wetter pens.

 

Imho those who expect these inks being exceptional might get a bit disappointed.



#37 loganrah

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Posted 20 April 2019 - 02:20

I think people give these inks a bit of short shrift when it comes to the waterproofness. They manage to combine two things which are hard to find: Nice interesting colours that aren't only blue, black or blue-black, and being waterproof.

 

While they don't maintain their colour very well after getting wet, they are still readable (always leaving at least some trace), which is good enough for most needs. Most of the time an ink only needs to be waterproof so that it won't be completely eliminated if it gets wet, and these inks do that. 



#38 Intensity

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Posted 20 April 2019 - 02:47

The issue is that there are actually quite a lot of inks that have high water resistance that are not blue, black, or blue-black, and they are not marketed as water-resistant or document or what not.  Even dye-based inks.  The whole ISO standard compliance and indelible certification, combined with high price, make people like myself question those claims when the results don't show good water resistance.  And someone here noted that the inks can fade too.


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#39 loganrah

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Posted 20 April 2019 - 03:11

The whole ISO standard compliance and indelible certification, combined with high price, make people like myself question those claims when the results don't show good water resistance. 


I guess my point is I think they do show good water resistance. The main colour washes off but a trace that is readable is always left, and that is enough water resistance for most uses. Saying they have bad water resistance seems misleading to me.

If (like me) you want inks in good colours with a water resistance just in case, and without extra maintenance like with pigment inks, they serve that purpose quite well.

I'm not saying they are perfect inks (they are too dry for me for one thing), but I've seen a lot of people suggesting or implying that the waterproof/document ink claims are false, and I think that is going too far.

I'm willing to be convinced on the UV resistance if some evidence is shown, but given that claiming ISO certification without actually meeting the standards would be illegal in a lot of places (false advertising etc.) I'm going to believe a long lasting and well regarded company is telling the truth until evidence is presented.

#40 aurore

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Posted 20 April 2019 - 07:22

The issue is that there are actually quite a lot of inks that have high water resistance that are not blue, black, or blue-black, and they are not marketed as water-resistant or document or what not.  Even dye-based inks.  The whole ISO standard compliance and indelible certification, combined with high price, make people like myself question those claims when the results don't show good water resistance.  And someone here noted that the inks can fade too.

 

Completely agreed.

 

 

I guess my point is I think they do show good water resistance. The main colour washes off but a trace that is readable is always left, and that is enough water resistance for most uses. Saying they have bad water resistance seems misleading to me.

If (like me) you want inks in good colours with a water resistance just in case, and without extra maintenance like with pigment inks, they serve that purpose quite well.

I'm not saying they are perfect inks (they are too dry for me for one thing), but I've seen a lot of people suggesting or implying that the waterproof/document ink claims are false, and I think that is going too far.

I'm willing to be convinced on the UV resistance if some evidence is shown, but given that claiming ISO certification without actually meeting the standards would be illegal in a lot of places (false advertising etc.) I'm going to believe a long lasting and well regarded company is telling the truth until evidence is presented.

 

I would not say their claims are false however their claims are more a marketing than a real thing. 

 

Unfortunately my UV testing papers of these inks are somewhere among a million of other papers of mine and it would be easier to redone the test rather than trying to find, it  will take a month though - will do for Cobalt and Midnight blues.
But basically the fade-resistance (UV-resistance) is above average among dye based inks, not superb though. Both Midnight and Cobalt look almost the same afterwards - they become a bit wahed out light-medium blue with some green element, actually just like their blue ballpoint refills. Unlike in case of their water resistance where Midnight leaves a greyish trace while Cobalt a purplish/pinkish trace. Both water and UV make them look like nothing they used to be, moreover spilling some water on paper makes a big mess.

Overall Pilot Blue-Black is a lot more water resistant (and in a lot better way), but is less UV-resistant (becomes grey rather soon).

 

Agreed it is always good to have a low maintenance not IG not nano-pigment ink with a good resistance (a kind of contradiction in terms) but what GvFC in general leaves on paper when exposed to water is not that much impressive, particularly in case of Cobalt Blue with it's purple/pink trace (inks that leave grey/blackish trace as Midnight Blue or Moss green shown above are indeed more legible at least). And as for UV-resistance there are quite a few better inks but indeed a lot of much worse.

 

In fact Iroshizuku Asa Gao or Kon-peki are about as water/UV resistant as Cobalt blue but nicer performers.


Edited by aurore, 20 April 2019 - 07:25.






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