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Help With Vintage Flexible Fountain Pen Hunting!

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#21 Bo Bo Olson

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Posted 24 March 2019 - 17:53

 

Thank you for sharing your experience I just reviewed the Mauritian site and I saw some waterman ebonite wet noodle and a super flex and they look quite interesting.
 
I also noticed that the prices with it are somewhat higher than in other places and I imagine that it is due to what you told me in your comment that the feeder and the nib is perfectly adjusted,
In your opinion, if they are worth the ones that person sells?
Do you notice a big difference in their performance?

 

And which of your two feathers do you enjoy the wet noodle or the super flex for your daily writing?

 

 

I don't know.

Superflex nibs are not as cut and dried as my system shows.....my system is only good for noobies, or those with very few superflex pens.

 

Mauricio and I did a bit of nib horse trading, so I never looked up what he would have charged, for two medium quality 52 wet noodles. I was more interested in the nib than the looks of the pen..............from the pictures he has some top of the line pens.....for pretty.

He is not cheap..........you have to depend on his knowledge to how much and how easy the nib flexes.

I wouldn't dream of taking apart those two pens.....

 

It could well be the better one has or is attempting to master Spencerian, the more one can tell how perfect the nib is......................but there is so much flex variance in superflex.(And one wants to strive to stay one width under max because of metal fatigue.)

Those who can write are more interested in fast snapback than how wide they can draw a letter.

 

I lucked out when I took my wet noodle Soennecken nib off and put it back on my Frankie Soennecken. I being 'noobie'...had a thought of putting it on a 'better' pen.... :( Nope....so back it went.

The nib and feed are Soennecken, the cap could be from a Soennecken school pen, in it is missing the circle in the final, but the cap ring looks somewhat like some of the Soennecken cap rings. The body has no markings.

I was pretty 'noobie' when I got that pen...........got it cheap in it was a Frankie. It is my best wet noodle.......and defiantly now that I know better, I'm not going to go looking for perfection by taking it apart many, many times...

....If I hit the lottery, I would send it to Mauricio to see if he can fiddle it to being better.

 

You have great handwriting. So the jump to drawing letters to do Spencerian or Copperplate will not be to hard.

 

Mauricio's experience not only of setting up a nib, but that the nib does what it's supposed to do. I have one 7 X wet noodle from him..........it is a tad strange, it starts out in the flex journey as Easy Full Flex, then half way it switches into Wet Noodle. It is a 7 X nib.........from EEF to BBB.

The other is a smoother in it's transition, but is a 6 X.

 

I do have other superflex nibs, that I lucked into. Easy Full Flex +, or Wet Noodle minus......one time I'll say yes, a wet noodle, the next time....not quite.

They are all superflex. I can have fun with a 5-6 X Easy Full Flex....the Wet Noodle is a bit easier....but I'm not a good writer.....I don't practice.............I basically scribble to an F with them, in I have to sweat to make the nib write EEF, think to make it write EF.

 

 

Mauricio don't care for my flex system when it gets to superflex............which I've said for the longest time is more a guide for superflex 'noobies', in the more superflex pens one has,  there is a lot and can only be a blurring of any definition borders I set.

 

Superflex outside of the Ahab, has to do with ease of tine spread and amount. (One can do the Ahab/Pilot mod to the Ahab nib and make it a nice Easy Full Flex.........save a hell of a lot of money. It is a fun nib..........I was disappointed in the semi-flex superflex Ahab nib...so the pen stayed in the cigar humidor. A nice poster added that Ahab Mod to it for me, and it stayed out in the pen cup for a year.

My flex rating system is based off you having a regular flex nibbed pen...Japanese Soft, if you don't have a Vintage US pen with that flex or a Pelikan 200 or 120 or '82-97 400....or Geha piston School pen.

 

Superflex goes from 4X to mostly 5-6 X to the rare 7X....outside of the now sprung nibs on Youtube and writing examples of just sprung nibs............lots of sprung nibs for sale.

 

There is a good poster who thinks a wet noodle has slow snapback...

Fast snapback is what the writers over in the penmanship sub sections want.............in stead of wide fat lines.

My superflex wet noodles seem to be pretty quick.....but I'm not a real writer.....just a scribbler.

So if you are buying a superflexed nib from Mauricio, you have to inform him you want fast snapback in a priority. How wide do you want your nib to flex.................7 X is rare....well working 7 X is. Will a nice smooth 5 X wet noodle do............or can you get by with a 5 X Easy Full Flex. I do have a post war Pelikan 100n in that.

I do strive to keep it at 4X as a max, in I have read Richard Binder's article on metal fatigue. I get aq nice fancy line, and if I want to hit 5 X, then I pick which letter to do so.....but don't do that often in a paragraph.  If I knew what I was doing I could show the nib can do more than what I'm asking for it, and you'd know it.........................but all I do is scribble.

 

When it gets into superflex..........Easy Full Flex flexes at 1/8th the pressure needed to mash a regular flex to it's max of 3 X a light down stroke. Wet Noodle at 1/16.

Weak Kneed Wet Noodles....a term invented by the English nib grinder John Sowobada (sp)...I have run into it............don't want...would really require I learn to write. A '20's MB Safety Pen had such a nib.

Dip pens can have much better, nibs than wet noodles. I've dip pen nibs that make Wet Noodles look Uncooked.


German vintage '50-70 semi-flex stubs and those in oblique give the real thing in On Demand line variation. Modern Oblique is a waste of money for a shadow of line variation. Being too lazy to Hunt for affordable vintage oblique pens, lets you 'hunt' for line variation instead of having it.

www.nibs.com/blog/nibster-writes/nibs-germany & https://www.peter-bo...cts/nib-systems,

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 


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#22 Bo Bo Olson

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Posted 24 March 2019 - 18:58

"""""We really need to teach people to stop hyperflexing a wet noodle. A 1mm-2mm shade is hugely dramatic with an EF or needlepoint normal line. Most spencerian wouldn't call for more than 1mm at its absolute most dramatic of flourishes. Over-flexed lines look chunky and inelegant."""""

 

The '30's is rather late in the Flex Era..............I'm not sure when the Waterman Pink nibs were being still made.into the '30's but think so............in the '30's Waterman was not after tine spread but tine bend. They were after 3X tine spread.....to go with superflex tine bend.

So we are all over stressing our fountain pen nibs..... :lticaptd: A Pink Nib is a 3 X nib??? :( :wacko: :wallbash: 

 

Yes with a bit of experience...so one has some feeling....you can feel the limits of a superflex nib.

one of the reasons I suggest working up the flex ladder, one can tell if a nib will do 5 X, 6X or the rare 7X............one is not 'writing' but testing to what ever X..............in one wants to stay one width lower than max....

 

I believe I read once, that a sprung superflex nib can be repaired....not to the same width, nor with the same snapback.

 

It is possible to slice and dice around the breather hole, and grind little half moons on cheap flex nibs to get the 'basic' 8 X tine spread nib that many noobies spring their real nibs to get. If you want your nib to do Olympic Splits..............get a cheap over-modified, last a year with luck nib and abuse it.

 

Heritage nibs should be left to the generations to come....the same with heritage pens.........I Do Not Agree with it's your pen to ruin as you wish........such barbarians should be ostracized. Let them hang out on the Ball Point Com!!!

 

It don't matter with dip pen nibs, they can often make a wet noodle look uncooked.

Dip pen nibs....(once the nib was called the pen) will do much more than one even dreams in Superflex....and if one ruins one, it is not the end of the world..............

Sigh....mean grumbles deleted.

I did work my way up the flex ladder.................it's too bad I didn't nor don't practice. (Missing boot kicking smilie)


German vintage '50-70 semi-flex stubs and those in oblique give the real thing in On Demand line variation. Modern Oblique is a waste of money for a shadow of line variation. Being too lazy to Hunt for affordable vintage oblique pens, lets you 'hunt' for line variation instead of having it.

www.nibs.com/blog/nibster-writes/nibs-germany & https://www.peter-bo...cts/nib-systems,

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 


#23 Intensity

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Posted 24 March 2019 - 19:23

Kind of. Sort of. Not really.
 
Yes, it is an increased point of stress. Sort of. Part of the breather is stress relief. Part of it is aesthetics. Part of it is to cover up an ugly slit cut at the end.
 
There are lots of ludicrously flexible nibs with no breather at all. I've also never seen an overcut nib fracture at that point. The stress is still being taken up almost exclusively by the breather,
 
If you (the "user," not pointing at you Intensity) are flexing a wet noodle so far that you fracture it at the breathers... You are the problem. Not the pen. The problem is between your ears.
 
We really need to teach people to stop hyperflexing a wet noodle. A 1mm-2mm shade is hugely dramatic with an EF or needlepoint normal line. Most spencerian wouldn't call for more than 1mm at its absolute most dramatic of flourishes. Over-flexed lines look chunky and inelegant.

Im going by the advice in this older thread:
http://www.fountainp...-a-cracked-nib/

Particularly RonZs post on the first page. Its not necessarily that such a nib will develop a crack, but its a point of weakness vs a nib with no slit overshoot. If one is going to invest in a vintage gold nib specifically for flex writing purposes, Id recommend a nib without such an overshoot to have a bit more security in the integrity of the nib in the long run. Unless its a cheap enough pen/nib.

Edited by Intensity, 24 March 2019 - 19:26.

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#24 Edo98

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Posted 24 March 2019 - 21:41

"""""We really need to teach people to stop hyperflexing a wet noodle. A 1mm-2mm shade is hugely dramatic with an EF or needlepoint normal line. Most spencerian wouldn't call for more than 1mm at its absolute most dramatic of flourishes. Over-flexed lines look chunky and inelegant."""""

 

The '30's is rather late in the Flex Era..............I'm not sure when the Waterman Pink nibs were being still made.into the '30's but think so............in the '30's Waterman was not after tine spread but tine bend. They were after 3X tine spread.....to go with superflex tine bend.

So we are all over stressing our fountain pen nibs..... :lticaptd: A Pink Nib is a 3 X nib??? :( :wacko: :wallbash:

 

Yes with a bit of experience...so one has some feeling....you can feel the limits of a superflex nib.

one of the reasons I suggest working up the flex ladder, one can tell if a nib will do 5 X, 6X or the rare 7X............one is not 'writing' but testing to what ever X..............in one wants to stay one width lower than max....

 

I believe I read once, that a sprung superflex nib can be repaired....not to the same width, nor with the same snapback.

 

It is possible to slice and dice around the breather hole, and grind little half moons on cheap flex nibs to get the 'basic' 8 X tine spread nib that many noobies spring their real nibs to get. If you want your nib to do Olympic Splits..............get a cheap over-modified, last a year with luck nib and abuse it.

 

Heritage nibs should be left to the generations to come....the same with heritage pens.........I Do Not Agree with it's your pen to ruin as you wish........such barbarians should be ostracized. Let them hang out on the Ball Point Com!!!

 

It don't matter with dip pen nibs, they can often make a wet noodle look uncooked.

Dip pen nibs....(once the nib was called the pen) will do much more than one even dreams in Superflex....and if one ruins one, it is not the end of the world..............

Sigh....mean grumbles deleted.

I did work my way up the flex ladder.................it's too bad I didn't nor don't practice. (Missing boot kicking smilie)

 

Thank you for providing your experience is quite informative and the time I am quite impressed how coarse the world of flexible fountain pens can be, there are quite a few options and levels of flexibility.
 
Thank you for praising my writing I spend a lot of time writing with my fountain pens for me there is no greater pleasure n this life than writing with these beautiful writing instruments admire their beauty and what they are able to write and the smooth feeling that They provide something that the ballpoint could never give me, the rollerballs enlarge me but they do not compare to the fountain pens. :P
 

 

My family and friends believe that I am crazy to spend money on fountain pens and spend hours writing in my notebook :lticaptd:  but we all have a vice and this is quite satisfactory.


#25 Edo98

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Posted 24 March 2019 - 22:51

I was communicating with the seller about some models that he has for sale in peyton street pens and I told him that it will be my first fountain pen and he told me the following:

If you'd like a good introduction to a flex before you make a $ 400 commitment, you might try one of our new old stock Eversharp Symphony pens
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They are in condition new old stock fine flexible nib and at a fairly affordable price, he recommends them to me because I'm just starting out on this from the vintage flexible fountain pens before I get one of higher value.
What do you think of the symphony 713?


#26 Edo98

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Posted 25 March 2019 - 05:39

Analyzing the situation well before buying an expensive flexible fountain pen I would like to have some practice and experience in flexion to get the maximum potential.

 

And the cheapest option to get this experience is with the dip pen, so I just bought a dip nibs and holder and an ink for dip pens online.


#27 Intensity

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Posted 25 March 2019 - 09:14

Great idea! I started out with dip nibs years ago and then more recently for copperplate practice. They were what got me interested in flexible nib fountain pens, which I did not realize existed (up to that point, my experiences with fountain pens were limited to rigid nibs). Make sure to get an oblique holder for dip nibs too! If you want to practice something like Copperplate.

“I admit it, I'm surprised that fountain pens are a hobby. ... it's a bit like stumbling into a fork convention - when you've used a fork all your life.” 


#28 Bo Bo Olson

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Posted 25 March 2019 - 10:57

new old stock Eversharp Symphony pens

 

I'm not in the states or I'd had that dial a flex Eversharp '40's nib a long time ago.  It had a bar on the top of the nib slit, that you could push up or down to make the more or less flexible. (Wearever made a cheap copy of that nib.)

They have a Whal-Eversharp subsection here..........go there. All I know is what I told you, and that in the '30's Eversharp made superflex nibs and in the '40's semi-flex.

There are some very pretty Art Deco pens by them designed by a man who designed the fastest train in the world.

 

Some men collect antique single malt scotch, antique cars or antique pens.................I do think you have no need to envy your friends collection of antique mistresses.


German vintage '50-70 semi-flex stubs and those in oblique give the real thing in On Demand line variation. Modern Oblique is a waste of money for a shadow of line variation. Being too lazy to Hunt for affordable vintage oblique pens, lets you 'hunt' for line variation instead of having it.

www.nibs.com/blog/nibster-writes/nibs-germany & https://www.peter-bo...cts/nib-systems,

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 


#29 sidthecat

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Posted 25 March 2019 - 18:25

Eduardo,

I've got my eye on a very interesting Parker ringtop...it's got a square ring I've never seen on any pen before, and the seller says it's flexy....why am I telling you?!!



#30 Honeybadgers

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Posted 26 March 2019 - 01:40

One vendor that sells good flex pens for cheap that are well tuned is Greg Minuskin. Dude's an (bleep). But his prices are good and his pens are too, but if he makes a mistake (admittedly quite rare, his work is so good that I'm still recommending him,)  and you ask him to... provide basic customer service... he will throw a tantrum like a baby about it.


Selling a boatload of restored, fairly rare, vintage Japanese gold nib pens, click here to see (more added as I finish restoring them)


#31 sidthecat

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Posted 26 March 2019 - 17:51

I've had better experiences with him, perhaps, but I try to use my Downton manners with nibmeisters.

 

In fact, I bought a very nice Waterman ringtop from him a couple of weeks ago.



#32 GlenV

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Posted 27 March 2019 - 17:28

Great thread, vintage flexible nibs are really great fun to use, agree with much thats been already mentioned, for my its just as nice to have a great nib than any particular brand. There are great warranted nibs out there. As Ive been accumulating some there are some basic principles that have come across. The tipping on really early pens is more likely to be poor, but mine after early 20s have been pretty good. Alco, Waterman, ingersoll, Carters and many other brands reliably produced quality nibs. You can find one. Ive bought a couple from 5 star pens too, they inspect them pretty well. I must add though that when I started out I was less careful than now to avoid stressing a nib, even though I can repair it. Also as have tried to improve my writing I find that really broad variation is not always better, the ones I keep coming back to have finer hairlines and predictable amount of variation....fun
Regards, Glen

#33 Sinistral1

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Posted 27 March 2019 - 17:38

I acquired some very flexible nibs very inexpensively on eBay.  I look for the listings that show that the nib is okay and has long, thin tines and a body and/or cap that might need some repair but that the imperfections will not effect how well the pen writes.  I always send a message to the seller asking if the tines spread apart with very gentle pressure on the page.  Some have no idea what I am talking about, others answer back that the tines do spread with minimal pressure.  As long as the pen works, the tines spread and the price is right, I buy the pen.  Of the many pens I have bought this way I have only had one that was not anywhere near flexible as claimed.  For me, the hunt for the perfect nib was half the fun of the process.  Best of luck in your quest for your first vintage flexible nibbed pen!

 

ETA:  I got my first flexible nibbed pen from a seller here on FPN for $50.  It is a medium flex nib and writes beautifully, but the clip is missing and the body has discolored into a funky purple pattern.  It is a Waterman 3V with a #2 Waterman nib.  I call is a "user" pen, no longer complete or beautiful, but writes like a dream and has plenty of flex.


Edited by Sinistral1, 27 March 2019 - 17:41.

Breathe.  Take one step at a time.  Don't sweat the small stuff.  You're not getting older, you are only moving through time.  Be calm and positive.


#34 georges zaslavsky

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Posted 31 March 2019 - 12:06

Check the vintage French made and UK made Parker, they are awesome. Here are mine

35164585320_f6e1db27f4_z.jpg

35164584950_93f06a1a1e_z.jpg

35551248855_f5461c17ca_z.jpg

35551248025_69810045aa_z.jpg

35421142761_02d9c50cfa_z.jpg

34710308464_b1994312c2_z.jpg

34710308054_fa9ec6e3c0_z.jpg


Pens are like watches , once you start a collection, you can hardly go back. And pens like all fine luxury items do improve with time

#35 Edo98

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Posted 07 April 2019 - 23:44

Check the vintage French made and UK made Parker, they are awesome. Here are mine

35164585320_f6e1db27f4_z.jpg

35164584950_93f06a1a1e_z.jpg

35551248855_f5461c17ca_z.jpg

35551248025_69810045aa_z.jpg

35421142761_02d9c50cfa_z.jpg

34710308464_b1994312c2_z.jpg

34710308054_fa9ec6e3c0_z.jpg

 

what beautiful fountain pens you have in your collection :thumbup:



#36 Edo98

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Posted 08 April 2019 - 00:02

Well after having practiced with the dip pens I think that flexibility is not my thing  -_-
 
I think I have a heavy hand because when I wrote I made pools of ink and even using my minimum pressure, I saw quite a lot of feathering and bleeding even in my highest quality papers.
I did the right thing to have tried with the dip pens because in this way I realized that flexibility is not my thing, flexibility looks fantastic in the right hands that have that skill and patience but in my case I do not have that ability and I think that above all patience my writing tends to be quite fast which is the opposite of the flexibility that is a more meditative art.
 

 

Thank you all for having supported me by giving me your experience in this forum, but I will still continue with my vintage fountain pen hunt, at this moment I am still looking for a vintage fountain pen made of ebonite but now I will look for it without flexibility. I will leave it to those who They can get their full potential. B)


#37 Intensity

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Posted 08 April 2019 - 01:50

There are some Indian pens offered with flexible steel nibs--you can always get one of those on a budget.  They require more pressure than dip nibs, and the tines don't spread that far, but they are easier to work with in terms of constant ink supply--and good for a heavier hand.


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#38 SchaumburgSwan

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Posted 08 April 2019 - 02:25

 

Well after having practiced with the dip pens I think that flexibility is not my thing  -_-
 
I think I have a heavy hand because when I wrote I made pools of ink and even using my minimum pressure, I saw quite a lot of feathering and bleeding even in my highest quality papers.
I did the right thing to have tried with the dip pens because in this way I realized that flexibility is not my thing, flexibility looks fantastic in the right hands that have that skill and patience but in my case I do not have that ability and I think that above all patience my writing tends to be quite fast which is the opposite of the flexibility that is a more meditative art.
 

 

Thank you all for having supported me by giving me your experience in this forum, but I will still continue with my vintage fountain pen hunt, at this moment I am still looking for a vintage fountain pen made of ebonite but now I will look for it without flexibility. I will leave it to those who They can get their full potential. B)

 

 

Hi,

 

that's completely fine. And important.

Maybe vintage stub nibs will be yours...

Most are broad, few are F, but medium stubs give nice line variation when writing quickly, too.

 

Best

Jens


Edited by SchaumburgSwan, 08 April 2019 - 02:26.

.....................................................................................................
 
https://www.flickr.c...5166@N02/albums


#39 Honeybadgers

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Posted 08 April 2019 - 05:14

I've had better experiences with him, perhaps, but I try to use my Downton manners with nibmeisters.

 

In fact, I bought a very nice Waterman ringtop from him a couple of weeks ago.

 

Like I said, his work is so good that I still recommend him, despite him being a giant ass.

 

He's saved a parker flex nib that nobody else would even touch, that had cracked both sides of the breather hole. His skill with a laser welder is beyond question.

 

But, he also ruined a waterman ringtop accidentally, sending it to me inked, so it leaked and ruined the cardinal red ebonite. It also had an old sac that he didn't replace and split a few days later. When I asked him to take responsibility and return the pen, he threw the weirdest freaking tantrum and threatened me with his lawyer.

 

He's not a nice man. His work just BARELY exceeds the frustration of dealing with him.

 

Edo, dip nibs are NOT representative of normal writing. When people say to try them, they're telling you to practice your calligraphy with them. Dip nibs are not going to do a good job with everyday writing (they actually made dip nibs that were stiffer for this purpose, and many of them were still what we'd call a wet noodle in the fountain pen world) and they're not representative of how you'd handle a flex nib pen in day to day writing. Some absolute wet noodle hyperflex pens are too much to handle in everyday writing, yes. But 95% of them are not that. A brause rose or even a zebra G are going to be dramatically softer than the vast majority of flex nibs.

 

if you have $50, I'll sell you a nice full flex 14k #1 eversharp nib mounted nicely in a noodlers nib creaper. It's a medium, very soft, giving 3x tine spread with very little pressure. It also writes just a nice bouncy medium line when you're not asking it to throw shades. The nib is new old stock, the pen it came from split the second I inked it, so it writes just as the factory meant it to, no worn spots or anything. I put it in a creaper, tuned it, and put it away since mediums aren't my thing, but it's begging for a flex newbie to have some fun with it. It doesn't mush down into a BB when you're just trying to write down a grocery list, but when you want, it will add some big bold flare. If you're interested, PM me and I'll send you some pictures and a video of it in action.

 

Also, practice. We all sucked out loud when we started with flex nibs. They take some practice. I record videos of my handwriting with various pens and upload them to youtube, and my video a year ago of a boston safety with a waterman flex nib is almost embarassing compared to my handwriting now.


Edited by Honeybadgers, 08 April 2019 - 16:09.

Selling a boatload of restored, fairly rare, vintage Japanese gold nib pens, click here to see (more added as I finish restoring them)


#40 Bo Bo Olson

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Posted 08 April 2019 - 10:24

Edo, one has to remove the oil coating of a dip pen, by licking it, or touching a match to it for a second or so.....toothbrush also works from my reading.

With the protective coating removed, you should have a different experience than a blob machine. There are thicker dip pen inks, Higgans, Windsor&Newton. 

 

Must admit I do very little scribbling with my dip pen nibs....I'd have to learn to write if I messed with them to any extent. (Sigh cubed, even have unused oblique nib holders.)


German vintage '50-70 semi-flex stubs and those in oblique give the real thing in On Demand line variation. Modern Oblique is a waste of money for a shadow of line variation. Being too lazy to Hunt for affordable vintage oblique pens, lets you 'hunt' for line variation instead of having it.

www.nibs.com/blog/nibster-writes/nibs-germany & https://www.peter-bo...cts/nib-systems,

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 






Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: flex nib, button filler, crescent filler, vintage fountains pens, ebonite, parker, conklin



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