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Expensive Pens That Use Jovo/bock Nibs


CMaurer

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... Platinum's nibs are made from a 15-step process that relies heavily on actual human attention, not automation.

That makes me wonder even more about the complaints I see on here quite often about Platinum nibs being scratchy right out of the box, and it's not from just one or two forum regulars enthusiastically recounting the same disappointments in every thread that touches the subject, but a number of other members as well, whom I assume are not entirely new to fountain pens and realise full well pens are made to fit the manufacturers' design intent, not the individual users' preconceived ideas of how pens should write for them. Surely the folks at the Platinum factory are adequately trained and well-briefed on how the company wants its nibs to be as designed, and won't often get it wrong?

I endeavour to be frank and truthful in what I write, show or otherwise present, when I relate my first-hand experiences that are not independently verifiable; and link to third-party content where I can, when I make a claim or refute a statement of fact in a thread. If there is something you can verify for yourself, I entreat you to do so, and judge for yourself what is right, correct, and valid. I may be wrong, and my position or say-so is no more authoritative and carries no more weight than anyone else's here.

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That makes me wonder even more about the complaints I see on here quite often about Platinum nibs being scratchy right out of the box, and it's not from just one or two forum regulars enthusiastically recounting the same disappointments in every thread that touches the subject, but a number of other members as well, whom I assume are not entirely new to fountain pens and realise full well pens are made to fit the manufacturers' design intent, not the individual users' preconceived ideas of how pens should write for them. Surely the folks at the Platinum factory are adequately trained and well-briefed on how the company wants its nibs to be as designed, and won't often get it wrong?

 

 

My theory is that the design intent does not encompass being ideal for every hand, and that Platinum nibs might be less satisfying to those who write with a heavier hand than to those who write with a lighter hand.

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My theory is that the design intent does not encompass being ideal for every hand, and that Platinum nibs might be less satisfying to those who write with a heavier hand than to those who write with a lighter hand.

 

I couldn't agree more. A light touch with these nibs is a rewarding experience.

"When Men differ in Opinion, both Sides ought equally to have the Advantage of being heard by the Publick; and that when Truth and Error have fair Play, the former is always an overmatch for the latter."

~ Benjamin Franklin

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After years on this site, I readily see a user's preconceived notions of how a pen should write often are paramount to most anything else, regardless of experience. When any number of members talk about "adjusting" the nibs on all or almost all their pens, it's hard not to think, maybe determinations of QC aren't as objective as they should be....

 

But then, of the dozens of pens I have, I only had one pen straight from the manufacturer that was unusable, it was really a feed issue though, and really I should of known better from the brand....

FP Ink Orphanage-Is an ink not working with your pens, not the color you're looking for, is never to see the light of day again?!! If this is you, and the ink is in fine condition otherwise, don't dump it down the sink, or throw it into the trash, send it to me (payment can be negotiated), and I will provide it a nice safe home with love, and a decent meal of paper! Please PM me!<span style='color: #000080'>For Sale:</span> TBA

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I do sometimes wonder what is the point of having a series of pens all with the same nibs...

Well the simple answer often is that the rest of the pen is different...

The nice surprise is that sometimes you realize that even the nibs are not the same despite the same origin.

Edison is such a case, they seem to finetune the nibs even when there is no grinding ordered, and it does make a big difference!

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I do sometimes wonder what is the point of having a series of pens all with the same nibs...

 

Another very valid reason is the person who corresponds and wants all the written script to be of a uniform style and size while having a variety of inks and colors. Multiple pens with identical/similar nibs but different inks accomplishes this quite nicely.

"When Men differ in Opinion, both Sides ought equally to have the Advantage of being heard by the Publick; and that when Truth and Error have fair Play, the former is always an overmatch for the latter."

~ Benjamin Franklin

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Well the simple answer often is that the rest of the pen is different...

The nice surprise is that sometimes you realize that even the nibs are not the same despite the same origin.

 

Yes, to the first statement. I have two Platinum #3776 kanazawa-haku pens (with different decorative imagery), two #3776 briar pens (with different finishes), and a #3776 tortoiseshell celluoid pen, all with 14K gold #3776 Fine nibs of the same form factor. Those pens only offer the nib options of Fine, Medium and Broad, and I cannot think why I'd want order any of those beautiful pens wth a Medium or Broad nib, when their application in my use cases for fountain pens is minimal or effectively nil. Having a spare M or B nib that could be swapped onto one of those #3776 pens for special occasions could be nice, but not at the expense of limiting the utility of the pen in its initial purchase. Furthermore, I don't like cleaning out my pens too often or unnecessarily so flushing and drying a nib just to be able to switch ink colours within the same use case — thus requiring the same nib — is not a solution approach that is suitable.

 

As for the second statement, from my personal perspective I disagree. I was sorely disappointed when I discovered that the three Platinum #3776 Century pens, all fitted with SF nibs, wrote differently, with one laying significantly wider and more uniform lines. Luckily, that issue resolved itself, and now the three pens/nibs all write far more similarly.

 

Another very valid reason is the person who corresponds and wants all the written script to be of a uniform style and size while having a variety of inks and colors. Multiple pens with identical/similar nibs but different inks accomplishes this quite nicely.

Exactly. I have nineteen Wing Sung 3008 pens currently deployed, inked with nineteen different shimmer inks. However, I don't want to line widths or handwriting characteristics to differ too much just because the colours of the words on the same page are different.

I endeavour to be frank and truthful in what I write, show or otherwise present, when I relate my first-hand experiences that are not independently verifiable; and link to third-party content where I can, when I make a claim or refute a statement of fact in a thread. If there is something you can verify for yourself, I entreat you to do so, and judge for yourself what is right, correct, and valid. I may be wrong, and my position or say-so is no more authoritative and carries no more weight than anyone else's here.

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Which level Bock nib...back when Delta was making pens they used a Bock nib and I don't remember a single complaint about their Bock nib.

Visconti, but there are 30 or so Bock nibbed =pens now or lately.

When a company makes 3-5 levels, one don't expect a cheap pen like Twsbi to have bought the top o the line.

Bock is hated by many for no reason I can see, but some hated everything but the MB ink bottle...hated the inks too. So take that as 'regular hate'....with not real reason.

 

As mentioned....Bock made Pelikan nibs for some 15 years and when Pelikan too them back In-House they made the same mistakes...................but it is Bock that is Hated...

IMO Bock was slightly behind Osmia/Degussa and the one Rupp nib I have....I do have semi-flex Bock nibs from the '50's.

But Bock survived. Rupp died @ when it's founder died....Degussa lasted to @ 2000. Bock became bigger in the later 20th century....and is still a fine nib....if you pay for it.............if you don't cheap out, like Twsbi.

 

Do look at my signature.

Edited by Bo Bo Olson

In reference to P. T. Barnum; to advise for free is foolish, ........busybodies are ill liked by both factions.

 

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 

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My TWSBI has a fantastic xf nib. I just worry about the plastic's rate of failure.

"Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination."

Oscar Wilde

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Personally, I try not to buy pens that just use a standard stamped bock or JoWo nib (sole exception being pens that use the #8) because they're all just identical writing, and the nib is hands down the most important part of a pen for me. Now, a custom nib made to spec by JoWo or Bock is fine. They tend to write differently beause they're not just the standard stamp with custom engraving.

Selling a boatload of restored, fairly rare, vintage Japanese gold nib pens, click here to see (more added as I finish restoring them)

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Yes, to the first statement. I have two Platinum #3776 kanazawa-haku pens (with different decorative imagery), two #3776 briar pens (with different finishes), and a #3776 tortoiseshell celluoid pen, all with 14K gold #3776 Fine nibs of the same form factor. Those pens only offer the nib options of Fine, Medium and Broad, and I cannot think why I'd want order any of those beautiful pens wth a Medium or Broad nib, when their application in my use cases for fountain pens is minimal or effectively nil. Having a spare M or B nib that could be swapped onto one of those #3776 pens for special occasions could be nice, but not at the expense of limiting the utility of the pen in its initial purchase. Furthermore, I don't like cleaning out my pens too often or unnecessarily so flushing and drying a nib just to be able to switch ink colours within the same use case — thus requiring the same nib — is not a solution approach that is suitable.

 

As for the second statement, from my personal perspective I disagree. I was sorely disappointed when I discovered that the three Platinum #3776 Century pens, all fitted with SF nibs, wrote differently, with one laying significantly wider and more uniform lines. Luckily, that issue resolved itself, and now the three pens/nibs all write far more similarly.

 

Exactly. I have nineteen Wing Sung 3008 pens currently deployed, inked with nineteen different shimmer inks. However, I don't want to line widths or handwriting characteristics to differ too much just because the colours of the words on the same page are different.

 

I was referring more to the initial title regarding Jowo/bock nibs (I have two 3776 but have not tried them so thoroughly to recognize serious differences).

When you start having a number of pens which use the same Jowo/Bock nibs, if it were not for the difference in the pen itself, (and besides the usefulness of having same nibs for coherence in writing, which can be a wanted feature), since there are really a considerable number of pens using these nibs, you may find yourself with a lot of different pens that write very similarly, which may become rather boring.

Now, it seems to me that as of yet, no nib is exactly the same as the next, even when its same size from same manufacturer, but there is usually a close similarity; my experience with Jowo and Bock steel nibs - at least 30 on different pens - tells me that's rather true for these nibs (with a few exceptions on the odd faulty nib...).

So I find it's rather nice when I get a pen mounting these types of nibs which has been tuned, as you can feel this notable difference immediately.

I have experienced this particularly with Edison pens, as opposed for example to Ranga, which just fits the nib in as they are. In fact I usually ask Ranga to at least test the nibs to avoid the odd dud... and often moderately tweak them to get the level of flow or smoothness I like .

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That makes me wonder even more about the complaints I see on here quite often about Platinum nibs being scratchy right out of the box, and it's not from just one or two forum regulars enthusiastically recounting the same disappointments in every thread that touches the subject, but a number of other members as well, whom I assume are not entirely new to fountain pens and realise full well pens are made to fit the manufacturers' design intent, not the individual users' preconceived ideas of how pens should write for them. Surely the folks at the Platinum factory are adequately trained and well-briefed on how the company wants its nibs to be as designed, and won't often get it wrong?

 

I'd agree based on my experience with the UEF that it indeed appears to be COMPLETELY differently ground. They were definitely not made by machine (or at least finished by machine)

 

Supposedly every lamy nib is "tested" before it's shipped too, and we still get scratchy turds from their factory on occasion. I've gotten one SF that wouldn't write until I opened the tines up a bit, and one UEF that was just completely wrong in every way, misaligned, scratchy, unusably dry, and had been ground so weirdly that what ink it would put down was a 0.5 architect. Someone came to work drunk that day.

 

No pen is immune to QC issues, and while the platinum 14k may be more hand-intensive than a preppy nib, they are still mass produced and therefore just because a human held it in their hands during the grinding process doesn't mean that it also got a careful inspection and dip test, like you'd expect from a bespoke maker.

 

I think the scratchiness complaint may come from the fact that they are generally tuned rather dry. Dry ink in dry, fairly fine nib = you're gonna feel the texture of the paper, which may not be the smoothest experience.

 

Still, we can at least expect a platinum nib to be more reliably consistent than a visconti dreamtouch, so they've got that going for them. I think they're just the most inconsistent of the big three japanese makers. Pilot and Sailor are just more on top of their game at all times. I'd be curious to see how much fine hand finishing is done on sailor and platinum (I saw a how it's made on a platinum E95S nib that showed quite a bit of hand finishing)

 

Not intending this as any hate towards platinum. I own 4x 3776's and plan on buying many more of their pens. I am much more confident I'll get a good writer from them than I am from visconti these days.

Edited by Honeybadgers

Selling a boatload of restored, fairly rare, vintage Japanese gold nib pens, click here to see (more added as I finish restoring them)

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Supposedly every lamy nib is "tested" before it's shipped too, and we still get scratchy turds from their factory on occasion. I've gotten one SF that wouldn't write until I opened the tines up a bit, and one UEF that was just completely wrong in every way, misaligned, scratchy, unusably dry, and had been ground so weirdly that what ink it would put down was a 0.5 architect. Someone came to work drunk that day.""""

 

They test the steel nibs in a big paper covered steel drum by sound. Those that don't sound right are kicked out to a little old lady, (could be yours 'sounded right'. :P ) who tweeks and tries them.....many just one tweek, once four....in the 5 minutes I was at her work station. 8 pens every 10 or 12 seconds were tested in the drum.......the machine seemed to kick one out for tweeking, one every 16 pens.

The woman had a back up, in she had to explain what she was doing to some 30 people.

The paper on the drum is saved in case there is a major problem to check where the problem laid.

 

The nib making machine was some 4 yards wide by 10 yards long, between 4&6 foot tall. All the worker there did was swap out the diamond dust coated slit slicer.

The tour by Goulet(sp) seemed to show a newer nib machine and a different set up since I was there. We didn't have any laser mark on the bottom of the nib then....5 years ago.

But when the nib is cut, it has to be heated to bring the slit back to a slit from being a V.....so with new machine, less heating because a burst of hot laser does the heating job.

 

 

I don't know how they test gold nibs....could be old fashioned in the whole second floor was old machinery. They brought us through when the workers were at breakfast at 09:00 so no gold walked. All I saw was two women grinding some Lamy 2000 ball points on a grinding wheel machine.

The ball point cartridge, is made on a '60's oil cooled inside a plexiglass hood-box machine, works fine, quick enough still and paid for decades ago. .

In reference to P. T. Barnum; to advise for free is foolish, ........busybodies are ill liked by both factions.

 

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 

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