Yard O Led Standard Barley With No Funky Hallmarks

[penbrute]

I recently bought a yol standard barley pen in sterling with the black section. No complaints on the writing front (the nib is great) but the cap and barrel only have "yol 925" stamped on them -- they don't have any of those multiple hieroglyphic looking hallmarks. I'd assumed that older yols did not have multiple hallmarks but I've since seen a pen with black section show up with hieroglyphics. Hoping somebody with a older yol can confirm (or otherwise) that a original (ie not fake) yol pen can have just "yol 925" stamped on it without the funky symbols. TIA.

[encremental]

In the UK, a jeweller or maker like Yard O Led has to physically send their work to an Assay office for it to be hallmarked (and it is illegal for an item to be marked or sold as silver without also having the Assay mark) Yard O Led would keep the stamp with their maker's mark - the YOL 925 - at their works, and do that bit themselves, but it should also have an anchor, because the pens are made in Birmingham and the anchor is Birmingham's mark, and also a letter which will represent the date that the piece was assayed. Yard O Led also have to pay a fee for the work to get its mark.

 

It looks as if Yard O Led put their mark on the pen, and then somehow it never got put into the box to get sent off to the Assay office! I expect there is a little space next to YOL 925 for the marks to go? They are such a small company, and the pens are so particular that I can't imagine them ever being faked. So I would just enjoy it!

 

John

[dapprman]

How old is the pen? (as they've not done a non sterling silver section for a while). I also can not see them making a mistake over the assay office, which will also have the year of testing as a second glyph.

[hari317]

Pictures will help.

[encremental]

Apropos of nothing much - here is a fantastic article with pictures of their workshops

 

2000 hammer strokes by hand to create the pattern on a Grand Victorian - I've always thought that puts a lot of other makers in the shade who make a big fuss about their craftsmanship (yes, Pelikan Toledo, I'm looking at you!).

 

And still very reasonably priced, considering what you get, I think.

 

John

 

 

[pennymann]

Hello,

The pen is fine. I have just checked and it was one of the first fountain pens we did around 1985 to 1988.

The proper hallmarks should be on the band of the cap or barrel. They are small so will be difficult to read.

The pen is not fake. As far as I know YOL have never been faked. What's the point.

Pennymann

[penbrute]

Thank you all for the responses, sorry I wasn't able to respond earlier. But to make up I will be adding pictures of the pen :-)

Pennymann, I've checked the pen pretty carefully and unless they are truly small, there are no hallmarks on the band where the cap and barrel meet. I do agree that the pen is unlikely to be a fake because it feels genuine quality wise, I assume that a counterfeiter would have to cut corners to make it a profitable undertaking.
Edit: Pennymann, I didn't catch it the first time around but your response makes it appear you work at/with yol. If so, that's pretty cool!
I've taken closeups of the visible hallmarks for the experts to scrutinize. This time I promise to respond in a more timely manner if called for.

Edited March 15, 2019 by penbrute

[penbrute]

How old is the pen? (as they've not done a non sterling silver section for a while). I also can not see them making a mistake over the assay office, which will also have the year of testing as a second glyph.

Age unknown because I bought it used. I suspect pennymann's estimate of the 1980s might be accurate.

[pennymann]

Hi.

You have guessed correctly , I am a retired worker from YOL.

It looks like it's exactly what someone else said. It must have been sent out without hallmarks because

this should not have happened. What I have seen is people swap barrels and caps around so the part with the

hallmarks is some where else.

I can date it 1986 or 87. Ill check it next week and let you know. This style nib unit was actually the second

one we made. This style nib unit was soon replaced with another plastic one before silver was used in

the early 90's .

to be continued !!!

[penbrute]

Hi.

You have guessed correctly , I am a retired worker from YOL.

It looks like it's exactly what someone else said. It must have been sent out without hallmarks because

this should not have happened. What I have seen is people swap barrels and caps around so the part with the

hallmarks is some where else.

I can date it 1986 or 87. Ill check it next week and let you know. This style nib unit was actually the second

one we made. This style nib unit was soon replaced with another plastic one before silver was used in

the early 90's .

to be continued !!!

Very interesting insider narration indeed. If it helps in the "investigation" there's a number 9050 etched on the topside of the clip.

Do you think that yol might show or have any interest in retroactively stamping this old pen? :-D

Would love to know what pen and from which era/year do you as a insider favor/recommend? I will for sure take your insights seriously.

[pennymann]

hi,

When Filofax bought YOL around 1986 one of the first things they did was have each pen individually numbered

on the clip. The problem is when you get to 9999 we go back to zero so there are actually other pens out there

with the same number. The other thing they did was introduce a lifetime guarantee which gave us a lifetime of

problems !

YOL can not mark the pen now as it would be against the law ( I think ). There is a new management in place

now and they have their own policies .

I presume you bought the pen off EBAY which is the best place to see all the styles and gives a good idea

of cost. If you are new to YOL then welcome , it's a very niche product which most people have never heard of.

Do you want to collect FP's or pens, pencils,and roller balls.

The Victorian is very well liked , and if you want unusual then look for the Corinthian FP.

YOL like most pen companies sell limited edition models of which there are quite a few.My personal favourite

is the Topaz. It has a crown on the top with a topaz stone . It was all hand made by our designer Gordon

Clarke. The work that went into that was incredible , a work of art as far as I'm concerned.

Sadly, he died suddenly just after his 65th birthday while " still in harness" ( a jewellery quarter phrase )

Regards

[penbrute]

Thanks for those thoughts. The topaz fp you mentioned looks very unique and quite superb indeed though (correct me if I'm wrong) only 250 were apparently made. So chances are rather slim that i'll manage to get my hands on one. But great to know about. And yes, I bought the pen I wrote about in my original post off ebay and it's my first yol. Bit of a bummer if yol was supposed to mark the pen but won't do so now. Or perhaps I should cultivate the attitude of stamp collectors (as in how they feel when they manage to acquire a postage stamp with a printing error) :-D

 

 

hi,

When Filofax bought YOL around 1986 one of the first things they did was have each pen individually numbered

on the clip. The problem is when you get to 9999 we go back to zero so there are actually other pens out there

with the same number. The other thing they did was introduce a lifetime guarantee which gave us a lifetime of

problems !

YOL can not mark the pen now as it would be against the law ( I think ). There is a new management in place

now and they have their own policies .

I presume you bought the pen off EBAY which is the best place to see all the styles and gives a good idea

of cost. If you are new to YOL then welcome , it's a very niche product which most people have never heard of.

Do you want to collect FP's or pens, pencils,and roller balls.

The Victorian is very well liked , and if you want unusual then look for the Corinthian FP.

YOL like most pen companies sell limited edition models of which there are quite a few.My personal favourite

is the Topaz. It has a crown on the top with a topaz stone . It was all hand made by our designer Gordon

Clarke. The work that went into that was incredible , a work of art as far as I'm concerned.

Sadly, he died suddenly just after his 65th birthday while " still in harness" ( a jewellery quarter phrase )

Regards

  Edited March 20, 2019 by penbrute

[pennymann]

Hi ,

Im sure now that YOL marked all the pens and in this case the cap and barrel have been switched by someone

over time. If it's really a big problem I will contact YOL and see what they are prepared to do. I have a

simple solution but I'm not sure if YOL would do it.

If you are keen to buy more YOL then e-bay have loads all at different prices to suit your budget.

I forgot to mention the Imperial Dragon FP. Look for it , it will be there somewhere.

I will post YOL 's response soon.

Regards

[pennymann]

Hi again.

I've just looked on e-bay , first time for ages and there is a fountain pen clearly showing the hallmarks where

they should be. They are on both cap and barrel which leads me to think that the same thing has happened.

There should only be hallmarks on the cap or the barrel , not both.

Looked at the prices ,wow ! Considering some are old but they are still asking as new price.

Enjoy !

[hari317]

Hi Pennymann

Pls have a look at this pen here

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/210325-yard-o-led-viceroy-standard-barley-old-style/

 

This has hall marks on both cap and barrel. I bought it from the first owner. Can you comment on the import hallmark please?

 

 

Here is an older Victorian , is this one of the earliest FPs made by yard o led ?

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/232100-yard-o-led-victorian-from-1986/

 

Can you advice on how the section comes apart? Thanks.

[pennymann]

Hi Penbrute,

I have asked YOL and they no longer have any spare parts left so you will have to love it as it is.

[penbrute]

Hi ,

Im sure now that YOL marked all the pens and in this case the cap and barrel have been switched by someone

over time. If it's really a big problem I will contact YOL and see what they are prepared to do. I have a

simple solution but I'm not sure if YOL would do it.

If you are keen to buy more YOL then e-bay have loads all at different prices to suit your budget.

I forgot to mention the Imperial Dragon FP. Look for it , it will be there somewhere.

I will post YOL 's response soon.

Regards

I do like the yol i have a lot, and so I am likely to buy more of them. Imperials seem to show up in large numbers on ebay, so will be sure to check them out periodically -- this time I'll also keep my eyes peeled on the hallmarks :-)

 

Hi again.

I've just looked on e-bay , first time for ages and there is a fountain pen clearly showing the hallmarks where

they should be. They are on both cap and barrel which leads me to think that the same thing has happened.

There should only be hallmarks on the cap or the barrel , not both.

Looked at the prices ,wow ! Considering some are old but they are still asking as new price.

Enjoy !

I still have some questions about the lack of hall marks. If indeed the previous owner swapped the cap or barrel, then I would still expect one of the bands to show hallmarks. THat's of course assuming that YOL's workers don't get to randomly decide whether to stamp the cap or barrel at their pleasure -- i.e. I would expect that for a particular pen model, every pen gets stamped on the same part (either cap OR barrel) at the same location. Also I went looking and managed to find a couple more YOL barleys that have no hallmarks other than yol 925. For e.g. check out this pen -- :

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Yard-O-Led-Viceroy-Sterling-Silver-Barley-Pattern-Fountain-Pen-In-Box-18ct-Nib-/372550307145

 

It is a sold ebay item, so you will have to look for and click on the "view original item" button/link to see the pictures. This looks very much like the pen I bought (thought it's not the listing I bought) and also only shows the yol 925 marks on body and cap, nothing on the bands.

 

 

Hi Penbrute,

I have asked YOL and they no longer have any spare parts left so you will have to love it as it is.

That is kind of you, thanks for trying -- credit to both you and YOL for even considering such a thing. I will be keeping the pen in any case.

Edited March 28, 2019 by penbrute

[pennymann]

Hi,

I will try and explain the hallmark question.

All YOL pens should have a full hallmark. Only the assay office can do this. YOL have some say in size and

position of the hallmark.

This method of hallmarking goes back almost 30 years and I can't remember if both the cap and barrel were

marked. Usually the barrel has the full hallmark and the cap will have a lesser mark.

[penbrute]

Hi,

I will try and explain the hallmark question.

All YOL pens should have a full hallmark. Only the assay office can do this. YOL have some say in size and

position of the hallmark.

This method of hallmarking goes back almost 30 years and I can't remember if both the cap and barrel were

marked. Usually the barrel has the full hallmark and the cap will have a lesser mark.

Thank you. I've now come across at least 3 different fountain pen on the internet with this style (black section, gold bands -- 1 thick and 1 thin, two-tone nib) that do not have any other hallmarks. The best picture samples are from the listing I pasted in my previous post.

 

Also I've seen a couple ball-pens (with black section) also that based on the style (and black section) appear to be from this time frame without additional (other than yol 925) hallmarks.

 

Based on all this, I am now inclined to believe that it is more likely that for some runs of barley standards of that era, yard o led only stamped the barrel and cap as shown...because all the examples (without hieroglyphic marks) that I've seen are from what appears to be the same early era (that too not all black sections, only the ones of this style). No other style of pens exhibits this phenomenon that I've seen. In other words, for a specific period of time (or for specific models) the assaying procedure that was (intentionally) followed was likely different from the currently followed procedure.

Edited March 28, 2019 by penbrute

[Wendell]

Just adding here...I found this thread looking for information on a late 1990s Viceroy Standard Plain Pencil with no hallmarks. So it wasn't just pens.