Parker 51 Grail?

[Tseg]

I followed Parker51's advice... for now I went and got a 'workhorse' ordered. Fully restored, in a color I like, Lustraloy cap, medium nib, aerometric, no dents, scratches or personalization... at a price I could buy a TWSBI. I'll see how I get along before I decide whether I want to drop 3+ bills on a more rare, higher-end model. Thanks for the input on what is and what could be.

Edited March 11, 2019 by Tseg

[PhotoJim]

 

I hadn't been aware that people complain about the reliability of the Aero 51. Or even what "reliable" might mean here. But this is a very knowledgeable online community. Thanks for posting this.

 

I should have been clearer - it's all relative. The aerometrics are very reliable. The Vacumatics are even moreso, just more complex to maintain when the need arises.

[Driften]

I followed Parker51's advice... for now I went and got a 'workhorse' ordered. Fully restored, in a color I like, Lustraloy cap, medium nib, aerometric, no dents, scratches or personalization... at a price I could buy a TWSBI. I'll see how I get along before I decide whether I want to drop 3+ bills on a more rare, higher-end model. Thanks for the input on what is and what could be.

 

 

I must be looking in the wrong places. I haven't been lucky enough to find a 51 for a TWSBI price. A 21 sure, but not a 51.

[inkstainedruth]

I've been lucky a few times. Actually, nearly all of mine (not counting restoration on a few) have been for less than I paid for my TWSBI 580-AL. The only three that were more expensive at the outset were the Plum Demi Aero (got lucky on eBay -- or maybe I was good at bluffing ), the Midnight Blue Aero (at the Triangle Pen Show a couple of summers ago, for only slightly more than I'd paid for the Plummer a few years before) and an English-made Navy Gray Aero (also from that same show, but in the Saturday night auction); I was mostly bidding on the oblique nib -- because truth be told? Navy Gray is kind of an ugly color....

Most recent 51 was last fall at an estate sale about an hour northeast of where I live (there were photos online and one of the pix definitely looked as if there were some Parkers there). Got up at zero dark thirty and got to the place around a quarter to 7 AM (it opened at 7) and there were already a bunch of people waiting. Guessed which building (correctly and did a very fast zoom to find the box with the pens; had snagged the Forest Green and was was looking at the other pens (including a Morrison with a nib with a broken tine and some junkers and a black 51 Special -- all of which I took a pass on) as some guy was making a beeline for the same box.... $2 US for the Forest Green; but I may have someone tweak the EF nib at some point because it's a little on the scratchy side.

OTOH, hit a bunch of places on Saturday in Marietta OH and around Parkersburg WV and the only fountain pen I saw all day was a Conklin Halloween that for was way more than I can afford at the moment (let's just say I'm *not* paying a hundred bucks more for a sort of "so ugly it's cute" pen than for the antique cabinet -- a four drawer box on a small table; I suspect it was originally a flatware chest -- that I'd passed on at an estate sale first thing in the morning). Especially having dropped nearly $500 on car repairs last week and over $400 on refrigerator repairs; then another nearly $400 to finish up on the car. God only knows how much over the $100 walk-in-the-door charge the fridge repair guy is going to want the next time he comes out....

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

 

ETA: Hmmmm. Driften, you got me curious. So I pulled up my price spreadsheet file and did a quickie rough calculation on the average cost of my ten 51s (seven Aeros, three 51 Vacs), including repairs, replacement caps etc. And taking into account the most expensive (the Navy Gray, including buyer's premium) and the least expensive (that Forest Green from the estate sale), and factoring everything in but not to the penny, the average cost ended up being a little under $61.... So, overall, a little under (on average) than what I paid for my TWSBI with including sales tax on that pen.

I'm presuming that for most of the other pens, the sales tax was factored into the price -- that's certainly how we did it for the food booth which is my husband's sideline business because it was just easier, especially when working with a manual cash drawer...; and this year, when I was getting the first day opening till money out of the bank, I didn't have to get quarter rolls because he's gone to doing the prices for everything in whole dollar amounts. The fact that I was going to the bank for this even though I technically quit two yeas ago is a separate issue.... And may be addressed after he gets home next week with "You know -- one of those ovens is technically mine and I was never reimbursed for it, and I don't CARE that it's now fully depreciated; I DO care that you technically still owe me for it and for EIGHT SHOWS' worth of 'my share of the profits'...." (On Year 8 of the main event we did I put my foot down, because I desparately needed a new laptop; on Year 9 my "share" helped pay for the new roof; which has to be replaced AGAIN five years later ; on Year 11, after spending a week freezing my butt, I said "I quit!" (and that doesn't count the three events which were complete train wrecks...).

I could buy a lot of pens on the price I paid for that oven, new....

Edited March 11, 2019 by inkstainedruth

[richardandtracy]

One thing about the P51 that no-one has mentioned yet.

For a grail pen it looks very boring and it doesn't impose itself on you. There is no instant wow factor. The P51 is much more subtle than that. I suggest you use it as your only pen for a month's trial, then stop using it for a week and see if you miss it. I suspect you will. The sheer competence & usability is what makes the P51 such a popular pen. It just works. And keeps working. It gives the same pleasure in use as a finely crafted tool, because that's what it is. It isn't jewellery, it isn't a statement about anything. It's a fountain pen, and is very good at that single purpose.

 

Regards,

 

Richard.

[Glenn-SC]

For a grail pen it looks very boring and it doesn't impose itself on you. There is no instant wow factor.

 

Really?

The "51" was made in solid gold, in gold with embedded crystals, with multi-colored gold and engraved caps, with solid silver caps, and others.

Boring?

[Matlock]

 

Really?

The "51" was made in solid gold, in gold with embedded crystals, with multi-colored gold and engraved caps, with solid silver caps, and others.

Boring?

 

I think you have missed the point that Richard is making.

[Tseg]

Well, my other 'just works' pen is my Custom 823 and I find that boring... probably because it is my primary pen for work, since I can lock it down when I fly. Any ink, any paper and huge ink capacity. Interestingly my pens that get the most time in hand outside of work tend to be the ones with some quirks that I'm relentlessly trying to make perfect.

 

In the last month I've acquired some modern-day Lucite pens and really like the material... so hope my P51 has that same solid feel. I remember when my PFM III arrived I was a bit disappointed in the feel of the plastic.

[FarmBoy]

 

Really?

The "51" was made in solid gold, in gold with embedded crystals, with multi-colored gold and engraved caps, with solid silver caps, and others.

Boring?

The Princess (gold with stones) wasn't solid gold and is perhaps the ugliest 51 ever made. The Presidential on the other hand is spectacular. So are the solid 14K caps from the vac-fill era. There are also the all Sterling examples from England.

[Glenn-SC]

 

I think you have missed the point that Richard is making.

 

 

Obviously.

I don't understand the logic that a pen that is extremely reliable can't also be good looking and exciting.

[Glenn-SC]

The Princess (gold with stones) wasn't solid gold and is perhaps the ugliest 51 ever made.

 

I didn't say that it was "solid gold".

"Ugly" is in the eye of the beholder.

[richardandtracy]

Glen,

 

We have been talking about a workhorse P51 that is affordable rather than solid gold & jewels. [i would use a thumb up emoticon here if my tablet let me get access to them] The gold & jewel encrusted ones are not plain. As for 'good looking' for the encrusted ones.. it's very much a matter of taste. Not being one of Tolkien's dwarves, I'm not always going to want to go for the most richly bejewelled pen.

A standard P51 does look plain compared to the MB149 and the others previously mentioned, and it doesn't try to draw attention to itself. It is, as I called it, a supremely competent tool.

 

Regards,

 

Richard.

[inkstainedruth]

+1 to what Richard said.

I'm always somewhat bemused by how much pricier the Ariel Kulloch "fantasy 51s" go for on eBay, because while I can admire his craftsmanship (and I've met him, he's a really nice guy), they just don't *say* "Parker 51" to me. What I like about 51s is that they ARE understated. Even the gold ones (I'm envisioning the jewel encrusted ones and thinking "Montgrappa Chaos pen" right about now ).

Yes, they were "expensive" pens in their day, compared to a 3rd tier brand. Or even a 2nd tier brand like Esterbrook. But all that cost went into the R&D, to make them what they were. They weren't designed to be bling. They were designed to be superlative and functional writing instruments -- to just WORK.... And they do. They just work. For a pen that was was designed something like 3/4 of a century ago, they work extremely well, and don't scream "old fashioned" or "quirky" or anything like that. Pretty amazing. The streamlined design is both comfortable to hold (how many posts do you read in threads about pens with step-downs between the barrel and section) and looks very contemporary.

There's a reason that Parker sold an estimated 20 MILLION of them over a 20 year run of it being their flagship model. In spite of them costing roughly four times what an Esterbrook cost (and don't get me wrong -- Esties are great pens).

And "ugly" is NOT a word I'd use when describing a 51....

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[Matlock]

Glen,

 

 

A standard P51 does look plain compared to the MB149 and the others previously mentioned, and it doesn't try to draw attention to itself. It is, as I called it, a supremely competent tool.

 

Regards,

 

Richard.

That is so true. If I walk into a meeting and get out my MB149 you can bet someone will say "that's a great pen, I bet it cost a fortune" (it didn't as I've had it for years). If I get out one of my 51s, even my solid gold one, no one will even notice. The MB is making a statement, "look at me, my owner has pots of money and also buys MB luxury leather goods and watches". The 51 doesn't make any statements at all, but if it did, it would be. "I'm a pen, probably one of the best ever made".

[inkstainedruth]

I dunno. I think that "I'm a pen, probably one of the best ever made" is enough of a statement right there....

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

 

​ETA: Who needs a MB -- most of the times when people noticed the pen I was using it was a $20 Noodler's Konrad! Except for one time at my allergist's office, and that time it was my Vac Red Shadow Wave....

Edited March 13, 2019 by inkstainedruth

[Glenn-SC]

That is so true. If I walk into a meeting and get out my MB149 you can bet someone will say "that's a great pen, I bet it cost a fortune" (it didn't as I've had it for years). If I get out one of my 51s, even my solid gold one, no one will even notice. The MB is making a statement, "look at me, my owner has pots of money and also buys MB luxury leather goods and watches". The 51 doesn't make any statements at all, but if it did, it would be. "I'm a pen, probably one of the best ever made".

 

 

And the MB is still being made and advertised today as a luxury brand/product with the message spread in expensive magazines. And every one of those MDs has a big white bird splat on the top of the cap, so that even if you don't know if the thing is a pencil or a BP or a FP they know that it's an expensive MB product. Yes, the MB is noticed because MB has been yelling "buy me and you will be perceived as having money and taste" (not that I buy that line) for years.

 

While the "51" hasn't been made or advertised in almost 50 years. Since the people in your meeting can barely see the nib on a "51", and if they do see it they are most likely to think that they are looking at a ballpoint, there is no reason for them to think that it's a fountain pen. Or ask about it. No "statement" is being made because Parker isn't making those statements about that pen anymore.

[crescentfiller]

The Princess (gold with stones) wasn't solid gold and is perhaps the ugliest 51 ever made. The Presidential on the other hand is spectacular. So are the solid 14K caps from the vac-fill era. There are also the all Sterling examples from England.

 

 

 

I was more than a bit chuffed to stumble upon these two Empire sets--within a three-week period--for less than $25 each.

The black set was in a lot of five pens for $35 for the lot and three weeks later, in another state, the Nassau set was in another lot of five pens for $60 for the lot. Grail? Well, they can be for that price!

 

Please excuse the wretched photos!

 

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/uploads/imgs/fpn_1552522486__black_empire_set.jpeg

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/uploads/imgs/fpn_1552522543__nassau_empire_set.jpeg

[crescentfiller]

PS I have a Cedar Blue Vac 51 with a beautiful, hand-hammered sterling cap by Rick Krantz. He did a fantastic job and I carry it daily.

However, my true "grail" pen was my Montblanc Solitaire. It took more than ten years to get it, but it was my grail pen.

[FarmBoy]

I was more than a bit chuffed to stumble upon these two Empire sets--within a three-week period--for less than $25 each.

The black set was in a lot of five pens for $35 for the lot and three weeks later, in another state, the Nassau set was in another lot of five pens for $60 for the lot. Grail? Well, they can be for that price!

 

Please excuse the wretched photos!

 

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/uploads/imgs/fpn_1552522486__black_empire_set.jpeg

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/uploads/imgs/fpn_1552522543__nassau_empire_set.jpeg

Well done.

[Tseg]

 

 

 

I was more than a bit chuffed to stumble upon these two Empire sets--within a three-week period--for less than $25 each.

The black set was in a lot of five pens for $35 for the lot and three weeks later, in another state, the Nassau set was in another lot of five pens for $60 for the lot. Grail? Well, they can be for that price!

 

Please excuse the wretched photos!

 

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/uploads/imgs/fpn_1552522486__black_empire_set.jpeg

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/uploads/imgs/fpn_1552522543__nassau_empire_set.jpeg

 

Congrats. It seems to me with P51's, there are so many in circulation and always coming up for bid that the real excitement is holding out to find a "steal" (like you did)... I'm starting to think my quest is to find an excellent condition, double-jeweled, blue diamond cap in a color other than black for less than... $100. That probably would be a grail quest as I don't see it being particularly easy to locate.

 

I suppose a tactic would be for every day to identify qualifying new entrants on an auction site and set a $100 snipe limit and do that over and over for days, weeks or months until one somehow slips through the gauntlet and is snagged by my winning bid.