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Dimensions Of Converters

converter piston bladder volume dimensions

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#1 Pen_Ingeneer

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Posted 09 March 2019 - 05:45

Hi to all!

 

I am writing on a new chapter about fountain pens.  The particular topic is about the technical side of the ink reservoir.  For most styles I have found all the information I need but not for the piston and bladder converter.  The dimensions I would need are their volumes, the height/length to which they fill up and the mechanical length of the volume, which would be a smidgen longer.   :rolleyes:

 

Sure, I could buy one each.  However, so far, I have always received your help, otherwise, adding it all up, it would have been quite costly.   :huh:


with kindness...

 

Amadeus W.
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#2 Houston

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Posted 09 March 2019 - 06:46

Intriguing project. 

 

Are you asking us to measure our converters for you? I wasn't quite clear; others may be similarly unsure.

 

If you're seeking measurements, a diagram of which dimensions you want would be most helpful -- although I think I can figure it out from your description. Also, a list of the different converters you *don't* have would help us provide you the missing ones. Also, you may wish to indicate what level of precision you need.

 

Something you likely already know: The "standard" international c/c converters aren't all the same. the nipple-and-mouth dimensions of different pen manufacturers vary (frustratingly). There's a thread on here about it, somewhere.

 

I'm happy to pull out my converters and photograph and measure a few, if that's helpful.

 

All the very best.



#3 Pen_Ingeneer

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Posted 11 March 2019 - 08:07

Intriguing project. 

 

Are you asking us to measure our converters for you? I wasn't quite clear; others may be similarly unsure.

 

If you're seeking measurements, a diagram of which dimensions you want would be most helpful -- although I think I can figure it out from your description. Also, a list of the different converters you *don't* have would help us provide you the missing ones. Also, you may wish to indicate what level of precision you need.

 

Something you likely already know: The "standard" international c/c converters aren't all the same. the nipple-and-mouth dimensions of different pen manufacturers vary (frustratingly). There's a thread on here about it, somewhere.

 

I'm happy to pull out my converters and photograph and measure a few, if that's helpful.

 

All the very best.

If you have the time, yes, please because I don't have any converters.  I want to do come comparative calculations.  For this, I need volumes and filling heights of standard converters.  Averages would be fine. Heights in millimetres ± 1mm and volumes in millilitres ±0.1ml.  Even if the tolerances are a bit larger it does not matter.  I only want to calculate some ballpark figures.

Photographs would be fantastic... Would you give me permission to include them in my writings?

 

Bis bald


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#4 Houston

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Posted 11 March 2019 - 09:13

If you have the time, yes, please because I don't have any converters.  I want to do come comparative calculations.  For this, I need volumes and filling heights of standard converters.  Averages would be fine. Heights in millimetres ± 1mm and volumes in millilitres ±0.1ml.  Even if the tolerances are a bit larger it does not matter.  I only want to calculate some ballpark figures.

Photographs would be fantastic... Would you give me permission to include them in my writings?

 

Bis bald

 

Of course. I'll put it all up on here, so it'll be available anyway. 

 

May take me a few days. Stay tuned.



#5 Pen_Ingeneer

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Posted 11 March 2019 - 09:55

 

Of course. I'll put it all up on here, so it'll be available anyway. 

 

May take me a few days. Stay tuned.

It must be Christmas soon!

 

How do you prepare the purple pens before you eat them?


with kindness...

 

Amadeus W.
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#6 Houston

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Posted 11 March 2019 - 17:19

Pen_Ingeneer: Do you want only "standard international" converters, or are you also interested in various proprietary converters, as well? Several of the Japanese manufacturers, for example, have their own, as do a few of the "Western" ones (eg, LAMY, Kaweco, Sheaffer). Just not sure if you want as many as I can stomach, or a more selective assortment. Let me know, and I'll photograph them.

 

One note of caution: I don't have calipers, nor a scale that measures to tenths of a gram, so my measurements aren't going to be very precise.



#7 Driften

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Posted 11 March 2019 - 23:52

Unless you weight a converter full and empty you will not be able to tell the volume by the weight.  Different brands that are the same dimensions might be different weights do to how they use metal or what plastic used in the construction.

 

Goulet pens has pictures and max ink capacity of the converters they sell. 

 

What are you trying to get out of this information?



#8 Pen_Ingeneer

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Posted 12 March 2019 - 08:25

Pen_Ingeneer: Do you want only "standard international" converters, or are you also interested in various proprietary converters, as well? Several of the Japanese manufacturers, for example, have their own, as do a few of the "Western" ones (eg, LAMY, Kaweco, Sheaffer). Just not sure if you want as many as I can stomach, or a more selective assortment. Let me know, and I'll photograph them.

 

One note of caution: I don't have calipers, nor a scale that measures to tenths of a gram, so my measurements aren't going to be very precise.

I guess the standard size would be enough.  As I said, ballpark figures are enough.  I have already average data for other filling systems (except eyedroppers).  I want to calculate a comparative trend amongst the various systems.  If you have an eyedropper or two, the same measurements would be highly appreciated.  :)

 

About precision, don't worry too much.  See what you come up with.   ;)


with kindness...

 

Amadeus W.
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#9 Pen_Ingeneer

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Posted 12 March 2019 - 08:27

Unless you weight a converter full and empty you will not be able to tell the volume by the weight.  Different brands that are the same dimensions might be different weights do to how they use metal or what plastic used in the construction.

 

Goulet pens has pictures and max ink capacity of the converters they sell. 

 

What are you trying to get out of this information?

Thanks for your interest.  For the purpose of it all, see the previous message to Housten


with kindness...

 

Amadeus W.
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#10 Driften

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Posted 12 March 2019 - 17:11

Why don't you just take a trip to Gouletpens.com and look at the ink capacities they measured with the different type of pens and converters? For eyedropper pens looks at the capacity of Opus 88 models, for Vac fillers look at Pilot 823, TWSBI 700r, TWSBI Mini, Visconti single and double power filler models. For converters go wild with the different models they sell....

 

If you look at pens they sell that use converters you will also have the capacity of the feed included in the value.



#11 Houston

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 10:04

Measurements to follow -- imprecise though they will be. 

 

fpn_1552757262__converters_-_medsize_sha

 

 

Edited to re-post image. Previous version of the image contained an error, mislabelling one of the converters.


Edited by Houston, 16 March 2019 - 17:29.


#12 Houston

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 11:16

Massive caveat: These measurements were done as precisely as my tools will allow, but that does not imply any particular claim to accuracy. 

 

Apologies I didn't take the time to figure out how to paste a table into this system.

 

First number is length of reservoir (mm). Second number is reservoir capacity (ml).

 

Platinum          30, 0.6

Sailor               30, 0.6

Lamy               33, 0.75   

Waterman       27, 0.6

Parker             27, 0.55

Unbranded      25, 0.6

Montblanc       25, 0.8

No-name Chinese   27 0.75

Sheaffer-style neck 25, 0.7


Edited by Houston, 16 March 2019 - 17:29.


#13 Pen_Ingeneer

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 00:37

Wow, I am impressed.  Can I promote you as Research Assistant?   :closedeyes:

I would like to copy one photo into the article.  Which one would you recommend?  The one you prefer, like most?

 

Thanks so much, this is really helpful.   :thumbup:


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Amadeus W.
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#14 nibtip

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 08:39

Massive caveat: These measurements were done as precisely as my tools will allow, but that does not imply any particular claim to accuracy. 

 

Apologies I didn't take the time to figure out how to paste a table into this system.

 

First number is length of reservoir (mm). Second number is reservoir capacity (ml).

 

Platinum          30, 0.6

Sailor               30, 0.6

Lamy               33, 0.75   

Waterman       27, 0.6

Parker             27, 0.55

Unbranded      25, 0.6

Montblanc       25, 0.8

No-name Chinese   27 0.75

Sheaffer-style neck 25, 0.7

 

Very interesting.

I have done numerous measurements too, with an electronic mini scale.

They include the ink in the feeder with all air bubbles expelled. These are the results:

Platinum 3776: 0.72-0.8ml

Nakaya piccolo:0.66-0.8ml

Sailor large 21k pro gear: 0,73ml

Sailor 14k pro gear: 0.67ml

Sailor KOP pro gear: 0.9-0.95ml

Franklin Christoph 45 (with kawaco mini converter): 0.53ml

Franklin Christoph P20 (with kawaco mini converter): 0.8ml

Franklin Christoph 1901 (with international converter): 1.12-1.15ml

Franklin Christoph 02 (with international converter): 1.12ml

 

Also

Piston fillers:

Pelikan M400-405: 1,65-1,75ml

Pelikan M600: 1,72ml

Pelikan M805 (numerous): 1,6-1,75ml

Pelikan M1000: 1,94ml

Montblanc 146: 2ml ( may vary on how you reassemble the piston after cleaning)

Pilot custom 823: up to 2,45-2,5ml (if you apply the 2 step filling technique shown on youtube).


Edited by inkking, 17 March 2019 - 08:40.


#15 Houston

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 11:13

Wow, I am impressed.  Can I promote you as Research Assistant?   :closedeyes:

I would like to copy one photo into the article.  Which one would you recommend?  The one you prefer, like most?

 

Thanks so much, this is really helpful.   :thumbup:

 

Happy to help. Was kind of a fun little project. BTW: The volumes were measured using a syringe demarcated in tenths of a ml/cc. But there are still several things that could have introduced inaccuracy.

 

The image of all the converters is a single jpg. So, you can feel free to use it as it is, or simply crop it. If you need any help with the image, don't hesitate to ask. 



#16 Pen_Ingeneer

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Posted 18 March 2019 - 07:14

 

Very interesting.

I have done numerous measurements too, with an electronic mini scale.

They include the ink in the feeder with all air bubbles expelled. These are the results:

Platinum 3776: 0.72-0.8ml

Nakaya piccolo:0.66-0.8ml

Sailor large 21k pro gear: 0,73ml

Sailor 14k pro gear: 0.67ml

Sailor KOP pro gear: 0.9-0.95ml

Franklin Christoph 45 (with kawaco mini converter): 0.53ml

Franklin Christoph P20 (with kawaco mini converter): 0.8ml

Franklin Christoph 1901 (with international converter): 1.12-1.15ml

Franklin Christoph 02 (with international converter): 1.12ml

 

Also

Piston fillers:

Pelikan M400-405: 1,65-1,75ml

Pelikan M600: 1,72ml

Pelikan M805 (numerous): 1,6-1,75ml

Pelikan M1000: 1,94ml

Montblanc 146: 2ml ( may vary on how you reassemble the piston after cleaning)

Pilot custom 823: up to 2,45-2,5ml (if you apply the 2 step filling technique shown on youtube).

Firstly, thanks for your work.  B)  Swizzlike, as expected!  I am German from just across the border.  My favourite chocolate is still the Toblerone!  :wub:   In comparison your volume are higher.  Thanks for adding the piston filler volumes.  I had already several results and again, yours are at the upper end.  Interesting, no critics only an observation. :blush:   I will add this in my calculations.  :rolleyes:


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Amadeus W.
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#17 Pen_Ingeneer

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Posted 18 March 2019 - 07:28

 

Happy to help. Was kind of a fun little project. BTW: The volumes were measured using a syringe demarcated in tenths of a ml/cc. But there are still several things that could have introduced inaccuracy.

 

The image of all the converters is a single jpg. So, you can feel free to use it as it is, or simply crop it. If you need any help with the image, don't hesitate to ask. 

Not to worry at all.  Once the article is completed and you see the context in which the data are applied you will see that it is quite alright.   -_-

 

And again, thanks for offering your help.  I am ok with photoshopping.  B)

 

If I could ask for another favour... an average length from the tip of the nib to the start of the reservoir.  I want to calculate the hydrostatic, "inkostatic"  pressure on the nib capillary forces.

 

And there is more, but I don't dare hitting you with it.  I only have a handful of fountain pens and I don't want to take them appart.  My knowledge is about the how and why.  Nothing much about manufacturers and their models.  That's why I really appreciate your help.  Yours personally and the people on the FPN.  :P


with kindness...

 

Amadeus W.
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#18 Driften

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Posted 18 March 2019 - 17:45

Since you are asking about converters:

For a Jowo #6 nib it's 47mm, For a Jowo #5 is 42mm. I would think Bock would be similar.

 

A pen like a Lamy safari is going to be much longer since the feed is much longer. Another pen with a long feed/collector would be a Parker 45, 61, 65, etc. Outside of companies using Jowo, Bock, or Schmidt nib units it's going to be wildly different.  For example I just measured the Aurora gold nib unit at 55mm. I estimate the Platinum 3776 is also 55mm but it's hard to tell since the nib unit doesn't unscrew.

 

Pens that don't use converters would be different. For example a Pelikan m200 would be somewhere between 28mm-38mm depending on how the inside of the section is designed and how far bellow the threads on the nib collar is the actual reservoir.  



#19 Pen_Ingeneer

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Posted 19 March 2019 - 11:06

Thank you all for your help.  I'll highly recommend you!   :)

 

I have all the data for this part of the reservoir chapter and am now in number crunching.  :rolleyes:   One never knows what comes out.  It will determine the continuation. 

 

One thing is already clear, the longer the overall length, nib plus feed, the less the efficiency of the feed and its capacity to compensate for temperature and air pressure variations.   B)


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#20 Lomarion

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Posted 19 March 2019 - 14:05

https://web.archive....-converters.htm comprehensive info from old nibs.com site about converter sizes and ink capacity.







Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: converter, piston, bladder, volume, dimensions



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