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Skips On First Stroke If Left Uncapped Or When Changing Angles

hard start faber castell loom angle

15 replies to this topic

#1 nate127

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Posted 07 March 2019 - 18:48

This problem happens on my Faber Castell Loom and I just bought a pilot metropolitan so now I have something to compare it to. 
 
I first want to mention a problem I had months ago but seems to have worked itself out, just in case it's relevant. That would be while writing a couple of pages, the ink would stop flowing and I'd have to lower the piston to get it to write again. That problem appears to have gone away after a couple of months. 
 
On to my current (small) issue. If I leave the pen uncapped for about 30 seconds to a minute, it generally doesn't write on the first stroke. Once it starts writing it writes fine. This same problem occurs when moving from a higher angle to a lower angle of writing. Sometimes I'll re-position my hand at a lower angle and it will skip a line or two. I bought a Pilot Metropolitan yesterday and for a third of the price of the Loom.... it writes better. Smoother nib and no hard starts if left uncapped for less than a minute. Now I wouldn't call the Loom's nib scratchy but it does have more feedback and needs more pressure to write well. 
 
Below is a video of what happens when I adjust the angle. There are also a few pictures that took way to long to ghetto-rig together but gives a better picture of the nib point. If the ink looks a bit weird it's because it has started to dry as the pictures took some time.
 
 
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8KvispA.jpg
 
Okd8N4g.jpg

 

LFpFZ4Z.jpg



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#2 langere

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Posted 07 March 2019 - 19:07

Sorry to have you experience that!  It's frustrating.

 

This is what is called "baby bottom."  The nib needs to be smoothed.  The problem is, because of the roundness of the "iridium"  ball at the tip, the ink has no way to get to the paper.

 

Also, from the video it seems that you have to press down pretty hard.  You should not need to do that - once the nib touches the page - without pressure - it should leave a mark.  

 

Faber-Castell nibs are known to be excellent.  Once you get the nib adjusted, it should write as well or better than the Metropolitan.

 

Erick


Currently in Rotation:

Bexley Owners Club 2014 "F" nib running Noodler's Cayenne

Monteverde Impressa "B" nib running PR Lake Placid Blue

Guider Mini "EF" nib running Montblanc Racing Green

 

 


#3 nate127

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Posted 07 March 2019 - 19:17

Sorry to have you experience that!  It's frustrating.

 

This is what is called "baby bottom."  The nib needs to be smoothed.  The problem is, because of the roundness of the "iridium"  ball at the tip, the ink has no way to get to the paper.

 

Also, from the video it seems that you have to press down pretty hard.  You should not need to do that - once the nib touches the page - without pressure - it should leave a mark.  

 

Faber-Castell nibs are known to be excellent.  Once you get the nib adjusted, it should write as well or better than the Metropolitan.

 

Erick

 

I was afraid of that. I guess that leaves me with a few options. Continue using it as-is or try to to fix it. I've read that they use Jowo nibs for their FC line but can't find much information on which specific one would be a replacement nib for the fountain pen. Buying the sandpaper itself would probably be the same cost as a new nib. I suppose going forward I should buy fountain pens with replacement nibs on the market. I could try contacting Faber Castell but I doubt they'd do anything as I've had the pen for about half a year. My Lamy Aion should be arriving soon, so that'll be fun.



#4 Bo Bo Olson

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Posted 07 March 2019 - 21:01

Micro-mesh....not sandpaper. Sand paper will be too rough in the long run.

Look up which three strength

 

Part of your first problem was a vapor lock in you converter. Buy a few short international Pelikan cartridges, there is a small plastic ball that you can put in your converter.

 

You don't say which continent you are in, so I and perhaps others would have a problem to recommend which three level woman's nail buffer you could use to get rid of baby bottom....Someone should know...

 

.Someone might say go to K-Markt...we don't have that here, we ran them out...no one duck dances in Germany.....folks even joined the Union over that....The sales force went through a 3-4 year apprenticeship to be salespeople. So the lowest knew more than the US bosses....and making them do the duck dance was an insult....so they struck K-Markt right out of Germany.

They tend to stay decades in one store so they are not fly by night.

 

 

Really have to read up on baby bottom.....in the repair section.....normally it's suggested you buy a dirt cheap Chinese pen to practice on....in what is gone is gone and costs $80+ to put it back on again.

 

.......don't know if a Knox nib @$8.00 will fit.

 

A wetter ink will help that, skipping.

 

Defiantly use the low grip...even though it could still be too high. Make sure the fountain pen RESTS behind the big index knuckle at ...just after 45 degrees, or rests at the start of the web of the thumb at 40 degrees.

You should let the pen rest and not use the Death Grip, you use....and all that pressure.

It is not a ball point....let it float in the ink puddle.

 

The vertical hold of yours is very, very high pressured.....you are cutting little grand canyons into the paper....and your small puddle of ink that should be under the nib tips bottom, is way too tiny.

Held low your nib floats on a small puddle of ink....so no pressure at all is needed.That puddle of ink is much larger than the ink in the grand canyons.

 

Your F-C is a nail nib...rigid, and should not bend as you are making it do.........that is vastly too much pressure.

 

 

This is from another post I did, part is repeated....is important enough to bare it.

45 degrees = right right after the big fat knuckle. (not even with it....much less in front of it....toward your arm.)

40 degrees well after the big index finger knuckle  at the start of the web of the thumb.

35 degrees for very long, or very heavy pens, is at the pit of the web of the thumb. (Resting a  long or heavy pen there will make the nib lighter.)

 

And as said, let the pen rest where it feels comfortable..(behind the big knuckle)...forcing it to be at 45 degrees takes pressure and leads to the Death Grip.

Look up Tripod grip.

 

This is not the Tripod grip, but the Forefinger Up. The way I and a few others hold a fountain pen.

An automatic light grip, so hand fatigue and pain is eliminated.

 

Help! How Do You Hold Your Fountain Pen?

 

Normally I don't suggest this to a one pen nooble, but it will at least let you know how light you should grasp your fountain pen.

You are using way, way too much pressure when writing.


Edited by Bo Bo Olson, 07 March 2019 - 23:42.

German vintage '50-70 semi-flex stubs and those in oblique give the real thing in On Demand line variation. Modern Oblique is a waste of money for a shadow of line variation. Being too lazy to Hunt for affordable vintage oblique pens, lets you 'hunt' for line variation instead of having it.

www.nibs.com/blog/nibster-writes/nibs-germany & https://www.peter-bo...cts/nib-systems,

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 


#5 nate127

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Posted 07 March 2019 - 21:58

Micro-mesh....not sandpaper. Sand paper will be too rough in the long run.

Look up which three strength

 

Part of your first problem was a vapor lock in you converter. Buy a few short international Pelikan cartridges, there is a small plastic ball that you can put in your converter.

 

You don't say which continent you are in, so I and perhaps others would have a problem to recommend which three level woman's nail buffer you could use to get rid of baby bottom....Someone should know...

 

.Someone might say go to K-Markt...we don't have that here, we ran them out...no one duck dances in Germany.....folks even joined the Union over that.

 

Really have to read up on baby bottom.....in the repair section.....normally it's suggested you buy a dirt cheap Chinese pen to practice on....in what is gone is gone and costs $80+ to put it back on again.

 

.......don't know if a Knox nib @$8.00 will fit.

 

A wetter ink will help that, skipping.

 

Defiantly use the low grip...even though it could still be too high. Make sure the fountain pen RESTS behind the big index knuckle at ...just after 45 degrees, or rests at the start of the web of the thumb at 40 degrees.

You should let the pen rest and not use the Death Grip, you use....and all that pressure.

It is not a ball point....let it float in the ink puddle.

 

The vertical hold of yours is very, very high pressured.....you are cutting little grand canyons into the paper....and your small puddle of ink that should be under the nib tips bottom, is way too tiny.

Held low your nib floats on a small puddle of ink....so no pressure at all is needed.That puddle of ink is much larger than the ink in the grand canyons.

 

Your F-C is a nail nib...rigid, and should not bend as you are making it do.........that is vastly too much pressure.

 

 

This is from another post I did, part is repeated....is important enough to bare it.

45 degrees = right right after the big fat knuckle. (not even with it....much less in front of it....toward your arm.)

40 degrees well after the big index finger knuckle  at the start of the web of the thumb.

35 degrees for very long, or very heavy pens, is at the pit of the web of the thumb. (Resting a  long or heavy pen there will make the nib lighter.)

 

And as said, let the pen rest where it feels comfortable..(behind the big knuckle)...forcing it to be at 45 degrees takes pressure and leads to the Death Grip.

Look up Tripod grip.

 

This is not the Tripod grip, but the Forefinger Up. The way I and a few others hold a fountain pen.

An automatic light grip, so hand fatigue and pain is eliminated.

 

Help! How Do You Hold Your Fountain Pen?

 

Normally I don't suggest this to a one pen nooble, but it will at least let you know how light you should grasp your fountain pen.

You are using way, way too much pressure when writing.

Adjusting the grip is definitely going to be a challenge and take some time to get used to. That said, it's hard not having a death grip on this pen as it doesn't write under its own weight and it doesn't even write with a tiny bit of weight added. It needs a small, but not nothing, amount of weight before it writes. The converter in this pen already has a metal spring-like agitator that moves around. I'll have to fix the nib first.



#6 Bo Bo Olson

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Posted 07 March 2019 - 23:54

What ink?

What paper are you using?

 

 

You are right with your baby bottom problem and pressing.

 

Try a 100% or 50% cotton paper....that might work, until you learn to get rid of baby bottom.

 

I buy vintage or semi-vintage pens so don't have baby bottom, in the nib tips are not fat and blobby and over polished.

I did have one pen a Pelikan 605 that had it (new), but I'd got a BB nib in I knew sooner or later I'd get it stubbed or made into a CI. That was only the first 1/4th a letter.  Got it stubbed finally. As butter smooth as before and some nice stubbish character....butter smooth also.

 

 

Took me three minutes to learn forefinger up, and a week of switching back and forth before I was use to it enough to go away from the Tripod.

 

One of the three grit beauty nail buffers is what you need, and a few days looking in the Repair section.

Someone should be able to tell you where to go to get one.....Face North at the North Sea.....turning left will get you to GB. Don't know what they are called there, but they have them. Breaded French Fried Mars Bars should you be north enough to be in Scotland. Not very good for buffing nibs though.


German vintage '50-70 semi-flex stubs and those in oblique give the real thing in On Demand line variation. Modern Oblique is a waste of money for a shadow of line variation. Being too lazy to Hunt for affordable vintage oblique pens, lets you 'hunt' for line variation instead of having it.

www.nibs.com/blog/nibster-writes/nibs-germany & https://www.peter-bo...cts/nib-systems,

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 


#7 nate127

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 01:24

-snip-

I'm using Diamine Ancient Copper on some paper I bought on clearance. Not sure what brand it is, just says "notepad" however it's above average quality. The back says "greenroom" and "clementine paper inc." Way better than something from five-star or mead, not quite as smooth as rhodia. Still a smooth paper though.

 

Thanks for the tips about nail buffers. I notice that Diamine Ancient copper doesn't flow as nicely in this pen as Diamine Oxblood (for whatever reason). 

I've been looking at vintage esterbrooks not long ago as well as the Parker 51 and Sheaffer Snorkel. I'm leaning towards the esterbrooks as replacement nibs are easier to come by. My next pen may be a vintage one but I need to slow down!  :o I just became a fountain pen user half a year ago and already have a three pen collection (my Lamy Aion just arrived and wow, the nib is in another league). This collecting sure is getting expensive!


Edited by nate127, 08 March 2019 - 01:33.


#8 Bo Bo Olson

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 11:51

:lticaptd:Need to slow down..... :rolleyes:

Back when I was with some 4 pens, I thought 10-12 pens would well be enough....that and ten inks. :doh:****

 

Writing is 1/3 nib width&flex, 1/3 paper and 1/3 ink and in that order.

Still no idea where you are at, but don't recognize your paper....have no idea if it's GB or Stateside.

I'm in Germany.

But in in England, I like Oxford Optic 90g (same as in the Red&Black notebook), which is = to Clairefontaine Velot' 90g

 

I don't know Mead...heard of it but rings no real bells, Don't live where it can be bought.

Never heard of...."greenroom" and "clementine paper inc..................but I'm not a paper expert even if I do have fair amount. (40 counting 5-10 sheet samples.) If you know Rhodia then your saying the paper is ok, it is then.

 

I chase shading inks, so the paper has to be 90g/24 pound, in the common copy paper of 80g just won't shade. The 90g costs twice as much....but I'm not planning to put it in the printer...( :crybaby: though that has happened  ....it shouldn't.)

Laser paper 90 or more gramage is best..........

 

Ink Jet paper is to be avoided, in it must absorb ink fast, it causes feathering with fountain pens.

A laser-Ink Jet combo paper, has to have compromises.....my Southworth boxes are "OK", but wish they were not combo paper.

 

My advice is with every three inks you buy, buy a ream or box of good to better paper. In no time you will have a nice selection of inks and papers.

I did it all wrong....bought pens like a crazy man, then inks and finally papers.

 

A decade after starting, I've 90 pens, 60 inks and 40 papers.......not all of which I'd buy again....but it costs money or reading time to learn.

 

Of course you need a thin, large Snorkel, It of course has grand balance, it was a great flagship pen back in the days when a pen had to have at least good balance.

It will need to be re-saced in the sac's don't last the 30-40 years they use too....when buying anything but a C/C pen or a P-51 (which you do need) do figure in repair costs.

 

WARNING!!! Will Rogers....Danger.....Danger.....Esterbrooks are addicting. I once had 5 of the 8 grays, two of the 5 greens, all the blue, DJ and Otherwise....and a Copper.

OF Course you need a couple DJ's, get a SJ and LJ in different colors....and there is a hell of a lot of nibs to be had. Never did have either of the two reds or the fabled Tootsie Roll. (Not counting the white one or the couple of black ones....I hit for a 'lot' of Esties and pre&just after the War Wearevers.  To go with the gray Esterbrook that was in the few inherited pens that started me in this addiction.

Back in the Day....I had the ugly single color metal topped Esterbrook...post 1960....(Missed the '40-60.pretty ones,  )............someone stole that one too. All of my fountain pens were stolen from me. Then came the Bic stick.....and one learned to keep the top on one's hand..............actually use a pen until it was dead.

Skill Craft black pens were safe from thieves, too cheap to steal.

 

I now only have an old Single Jewel marbled blue SJ, and a DJ Copper. I have six nib Osmiroid nib set I use in them.

 

Suggest looking at our sales subsection. Fair prices both ways for pens that work well.


Edited by Bo Bo Olson, 08 March 2019 - 11:58.

German vintage '50-70 semi-flex stubs and those in oblique give the real thing in On Demand line variation. Modern Oblique is a waste of money for a shadow of line variation. Being too lazy to Hunt for affordable vintage oblique pens, lets you 'hunt' for line variation instead of having it.

www.nibs.com/blog/nibster-writes/nibs-germany & https://www.peter-bo...cts/nib-systems,

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 


#9 Honeybadgers

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 12:06

Easy to diagnose, a pain to fix sometimes.

 

Baby's bottom or misaligned tines.


Selling a boatload of restored, fairly rare, vintage Japanese gold nib pens, click here to see (more added as I finish restoring them)


#10 BaronWulfraed

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 16:36

I'm using Diamine Ancient Copper on some paper I bought on clearance

 

Oh dear... The last pen I filled with that required me to run water over the nib about every 6 medium-hard sudokus... It tends to build up crud on the nib when exposed to air. Just swishing the nib through a stream of tap water cleared it enough for the next few puzzles.

 

I like the color... but the last ink I'd used that built up that much crud was Parker red Quink, in the early 70s.



#11 nate127

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 17:46

 
Oh dear... The last pen I filled with that required me to run water over the nib about every 6 medium-hard sudokus... It tends to build up crud on the nib when exposed to air. Just swishing the nib through a stream of tap water cleared it enough for the next few puzzles.
 
I like the color... but the last ink I'd used that built up that much crud was Parker red Quink, in the early 70s.

Do some brands have different ink properties or is it purely ink specific? I've noticed every Noodlers ink I've tried is quite wet. Granted, I've only tried their black mocassin and bad green gator. I also have some Parker quink blue-black I haven't used in awhile. The last time I used quink, the pen would stop writing after a couple pages and I'd have to lower the Piston to fix. Could have been a fluke. I just ordered five more ink samples from other brands so will be testing those soon.

I suppose I could always add water to dryer inks.

Edited by nate127, 08 March 2019 - 17:52.


#12 Bo Bo Olson

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 20:43

Noodlers unless it's a shading ink is known to be a wet supersaturated ink.

Safe inks and a bit wet...is Waterman inks. Once Waterman was considered wet....but some Some Noodler users consider Waterman inks Dry! :yikes:

I have two Noodler Inks, Apache Sunset and Golden Brown....both shading inks. Golden Brown requires a full sheet of writing on a second sheet befor ethe front of the first sheet is dry enough to write on the back. Ottoman Azure was an ink I was interested in.

Until amazon just dropped the price of Noodlers to E13.00 it had cost well into the mid 20 Euros. So was too expensive for me...and in the 7 years since I had mine shipped to my Motel in the States, I'm sure Noodlers has another 200 inks I know nothing about.

 

Diamine Ancient Copper is an ink that is well known to develop ink crud and ink creeping.

 

Do spend a lot of time looking in Ink Reviews to check an exact ink, Inky Thoughts should lead you to many inks.

Pelikan is dry, Edelstein is not quite so dry...sort of like MB. Herbin is fairly dry.

R&K is a nice dry ink have 5-6 of them.

DA can be dry or wet...saturated. One has to look them up....and then there is the BS famous name renaming that is a pain.  I do like the Royal Blue....it is darker and more wet and saturated than Waterman Blue. Have 10 or so DA inks.

 

I don't care for Diamine, to me it writes with a bumpy line.(I'm a bit OCD on Feathering/bumpy lines...have my own scale)...not a clean line if looked at close enough

. Akkermann, is slightly different inks made by Diamine for Akkermann; not 'exactly' the same. I do have 4-5 Diamine Glitter inks.

 

Japanese inks are often wet in they are made for real skinny nibs.

 

Visconti makes a real nice blue.........that I've had on my ink list for 9 years. :angry:


German vintage '50-70 semi-flex stubs and those in oblique give the real thing in On Demand line variation. Modern Oblique is a waste of money for a shadow of line variation. Being too lazy to Hunt for affordable vintage oblique pens, lets you 'hunt' for line variation instead of having it.

www.nibs.com/blog/nibster-writes/nibs-germany & https://www.peter-bo...cts/nib-systems,

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 


#13 Honeybadgers

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Posted 09 March 2019 - 10:06

Do some brands have different ink properties or is it purely ink specific? I've noticed every Noodlers ink I've tried is quite wet. Granted, I've only tried their black mocassin and bad green gator. I also have some Parker quink blue-black I haven't used in awhile. The last time I used quink, the pen would stop writing after a couple pages and I'd have to lower the Piston to fix. Could have been a fluke. I just ordered five more ink samples from other brands so will be testing those soon.

I suppose I could always add water to dryer inks.

 

Only in rare cases or extreme inks (Stipula saffron is insanely dry so it can cause hard starting, as can penbbs 262) will issues arise, but a pen starting fine and running dry is a problem with the pen, not the ink, unless you're trying to use a dry ink as if it should be wet and priming the feed because "that's the line/color I want"  Quink blue black should be one of the most average, middle of the road, everyday inks out there. it's well behaved, not heavily saturated, and should work fine in all pens.

 

Noodlers inks tend towards high flow, super high saturation. They can occasionally be clog or smear prone, but they are also intended to be diluted. Nathan Tardiff himself has said he intended for people to dilute his ink to the desired consistency, and I've found smear prone inks like kiowa pecan to respond very well to a 3:1 dilution of distilled water to ink. 

 

If you want a benchmark ink, pick up a bottle of standard waterman blue. If a pen won't write properly (no skipping or running dry or hard starts) with waterman blue, the problem is with the pen, 100% of the time.


Edited by Honeybadgers, 09 March 2019 - 10:07.

Selling a boatload of restored, fairly rare, vintage Japanese gold nib pens, click here to see (more added as I finish restoring them)


#14 TheDutchGuy

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Posted 09 March 2019 - 17:20

If you want a benchmark ink, pick up a bottle of standard waterman blue. If a pen won't write properly (no skipping or running dry or hard starts) with waterman blue, the problem is with the pen, 100% of the time.


+1. Those inks are top-notch yet quite affordable.

#15 Arcadian

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Posted 09 March 2019 - 17:45

 

I was afraid of that. I guess that leaves me with a few options. Continue using it as-is or try to to fix it. I've read that they use Jowo nibs for their FC line but can't find much information on which specific one would be a replacement nib for the fountain pen. Buying the sandpaper itself would probably be the same cost as a new nib. I suppose going forward I should buy fountain pens with replacement nibs on the market. I could try contacting Faber Castell but I doubt they'd do anything as I've had the pen for about half a year. My Lamy Aion should be arriving soon, so that'll be fun.

 

I would suggest sending it back to Faber Castell for service. A few years ago I had some trouble with a Faber Castell Ambition (it turned out to be my own fault for being none too bright), so I sent it to the factory for service, and they did a superb job servicing the pen, and sent me a mechanical pencil, two regular pencils, a ballpoint and several cartridges for both the ballpoint and the Ambition free of charge to apologize for my inconvenience. The service, of course, was free of charge, too!

 

 - P.



#16 Bo Bo Olson

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Posted 09 March 2019 - 19:50

Add FC to Lamy&Cross as free repair....of out of warrantee pens.

Pelikan use to be at least if sent to Germany....don't know if that is still true. (Ask! Won't hurt.)


German vintage '50-70 semi-flex stubs and those in oblique give the real thing in On Demand line variation. Modern Oblique is a waste of money for a shadow of line variation. Being too lazy to Hunt for affordable vintage oblique pens, lets you 'hunt' for line variation instead of having it.

www.nibs.com/blog/nibster-writes/nibs-germany & https://www.peter-bo...cts/nib-systems,

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 




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