Pelikan M600 Ef Or F?

[Mandar]

I'm sure this is a frequently asked question, and I've found a fair bit of information, but am still confused. Some posts from circa 10-12 years ago mention that Pelikan EFs are notoriously unreliable with regard to line width and smoothness, while the relatively recent reviews that I've read are generally quite positive. Here is a case in point, with opinions that are several years apart from the owner.

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/9432-new-m600-headaches/

 

My first priority is that the nib should be silky / buttery / ultra / ... smooth. I don't need or want any feedback. But I also like narrow rather than broad nibs (e.g., Lamy or Kaweco fine nibs, an M200 fine, Omas Extra / Europa fine nibs, etc.).

Appelboom in the Netherlands has a good price, and I'll opt for the "Tune and smooth" option that they kindly provide. I've written to them, but if folks here have any additional suggestions about whether to go with the EF or F, I would greatly appreciate hearing from you.

Also, I understand Pelikan permits a nib swap in some situations. Can I do a writing test (with ink), and request a swap if I find that the F is too broad, or the EF is not smooth enough? Will I just have to pay for postage, or will there be other charges?

 

Thanks very much!

-mandar

 

[OCArt]

It's my understanding that Appelboom has a young woman nib mister who tunes the pens before they go out. I believe she has a a background in jewelry and metallurgy. Really cool.

 

Edited to add that the young lady's name is Anabelle Sophie Hiller

Edited March 6, 2019 by OCArt

[Bo Bo Olson]

F will be more butter smooth than EF. EF could well be wide enough to do the trick, in that is 1/2 a width wider than semi-vintage.

 

The nib is a semi-nail, so butter smooth is all it can offer.

 

Do add you want wetter inks and slicker paper than 80g copy paper....that will make the nib smoother.

 

As soon as you get over the "got to be 'butter smooth'" whim.....a 600 can take a '50-65 400/400nn's semi-flex nib. For a long time before I had my 605 BB stubbed to a butter smooth 1.0 by Francis, I had a semi-flex B on it. The semi-vintage 400's springy regular flex is also a nice comfortable ride.....and either offers a cleaner line that the fat and blobby post '97 nib.

 

My vintage and semi-vintage nibs are good and smooth, the level under butter smooth....of course you could send such off to be made butter smooth.

[sirgilbert357]

Your personal standard of "narrow" and your luck of the draw with the nib you get will likely determine your level of satisfaction.

 

If you are used to European nibs, I'd say you know better than I do which nib you'll want. If you're used to Japanese nibs, I would go with the extra fine and then anticipate having to get a nibmeister to hone it to your personal standards.

 

Either way, generally speaking, Pelikan nibs will be wet(ish) writers and you'll probably have to choose your inks strategically. Also, the finer you go, the better the chance for increased feedback. A fine nib can still be smooth, but it might not be "butter" smooth. I personally prefer my nibs butter smooth and have usually smoothed or tweaked almost every single one because it didn't satisfy me out of the box. I don't get upset, I just realize I'll probably have to work on my own nibs when I unbox a new pen.

 

Good luck with your choice!

Edited March 5, 2019 by sirgilbert357

[biancitwo]

I got an M600 with an EF nib. I prefer wider nibs in modern Pelikans. I have several EF Pelikans from the 1950s and earlier. I love them. They write superbly with any ink. This EF was fairly smooth, with the expected feedback. I was surprised to find it was as fine as my Sailor Pro Gear Slim. I didn’t need another stiff EF, so I replaced it with a Pelikan M CI by Pendleton Brown. It’s now my favorite pen.

[Mandar]

Thanks everyone for your suggestions! I found this helpful thread that I had missed before, where some of you have posted:

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/326013-pelikan-ef-nibssmooth-writing/page-2

 

I'm leaning towards the EF now. Will report how it goes.

 

 

It's my understanding that Appelboom has a young woman nib mister who tunes the pens before they go out. I believe she has a a background in jewelry and metallurgy. Really cool.

 

And cool that you dug this nugget out!

 

 

F will be more butter smooth than EF. EF could well be wide enough to do the trick, in that is 1/2 a width wider than semi-vintage.

 

The nib is a semi-nail, so butter smooth is all it can offer.

 

Do add you want wetter inks and slicker paper than 80g copy paper....that will make the nib smoother.

 

As soon as you get over the "got to be 'butter smooth'" whim.....a 600 can take a '50-65 400/400nn's semi-flex nib. For a long time before I had my 605 BB stubbed to a butter smooth 1.0 by Francis, I had a semi-flex B on it. The semi-vintage 400's springy regular flex is also a nice comfortable ride.....and either offers a cleaner line that the fat and blobby post '97 nib.

 

My vintage and semi-vintage nibs are good and smooth, the level under butter smooth....of course you could send such off to be made butter smooth.

 

"Whim"? Butter smooth / good-and-smooth nails are actually my preferred nib type De gustibus non est disputandum, I guess..

 

 

Either way, generally speaking, Pelikan nibs will be wet(ish) writers and you'll probably have to choose your inks strategically. Also, the finer you go, the better the chance for increased feedback. A fine nib can still be smooth, but it might not be "butter" smooth. I personally prefer my nibs butter smooth and have usually smoothed or tweaked almost every single one because it didn't satisfy me out of the box. I don't get upset, I just realize I'll probably have to work on my own nibs when I unbox a new pen.

Good luck with your choice!

 

I haven't reached that level of resignation yet A comment on https://www.wellappointeddesk.com/2018/01/fountain-pen-review-pelikan-m605-transparent-white-ef-the-ghost/ echoes my thoughts almost exactly: "I have this old-fashioned attitude that when I pay for an item, it should do what it’s supposed to from the moment I use it, and when I pay a lot for something, it should do it very well indeed."

 

Thanks again!

-mandar

[PAKMAN]

I love EF Pelikan nibs, get all my new M800's with the EF. They sometimes need a little smoothing, but since you are buying from a place that will do that for you, I'd go for the EF and just ask for supper smooth.

[sargetalon]

Any nib that is well tuned should be smooth, EF or not. I think an EF would suit you well and was my preferred option before the price hike. There will be variability though among batches of nibs so a little of it will be luck of the draw. Getting someone to look at the nib before shipping would go a long way to your satisfaction.

[Mandar]

Thanks, PAKMAN and sargetalon!

Change of plan: I'll try an M400 EF nib on my M200 for now. I'm lusting after the M800 Stone Garden, but that's too expensive, and likely to be too heavy / big for my preferences. I'll wait for a bit and see if Pelikan comes out with a similar, dark / muted looking special edition in the 600 size. If they keep sticking to the White Turquoise / Pink / ... or Brilliant Y series, then it'll be the regular black one for me.

[sirgilbert357]

 

I haven't reached that level of resignation yet A comment on https://www.wellappointeddesk.com/2018/01/fountain-pen-review-pelikan-m605-transparent-white-ef-the-ghost/ echoes my thoughts almost exactly: "I have this old-fashioned attitude that when I pay for an item, it should do what it’s supposed to from the moment I use it, and when I pay a lot for something, it should do it very well indeed."

 

Thanks again!

-mandar

 

Its not a level of resignation, it's a more realistic level of expectation. It is not every pen maker's goal to make their nibs "butter smooth". Indeed if that is your attitude and expectation, you should avoid Aurora and Platinum pens for sure, as they have a reputation for having a level of feedback from their nibs that is not unlike writing with a pencil. This is just how they make their nibs, yet you would likely consider them "defective", lol. And most pen makers do not polish their nibs to the point that there is zero feedback -- many people don't actually prefer that feel.

 

Your "old-fashioned" stance is not any different from mine, but I realize that my standard of smoothness is beyond what most pen makers actually aim for, and spending literally 30 seconds to a minute on a nib with a few figure 8's on some micromesh and mylar sheets to achieve the desired nib feel is no burden at all to me. For the price you'll pay in shipping to send one pen back that didn't meet your expectations, you could buy all the materials you'll ever need to tune dozens of pens to perfection. You'll never have to limit your selection of which pens you buy either. Just a different point of view for you to consider...

 

Also: "butter smooth" is subjective and will vary for each person (obviously).

Edited March 9, 2019 by sirgilbert357

[Bo Bo Olson]

Five week nib swap in for new nibs.

I used that once to swap in a nice M for a BB on my 605, in sooner or later and it was later, I was going to stub or CI that nib.....stubbed to a 1.0 or B eventually.

 

The good thing about Pelikan is if one and when one changes one's size mentally, one can get a nib in @ that size.

I once was into wide nibs, B or BB and them in oblique. Now I find I like M nibs...and even though I never chased them, have more F nibs than M.

I chase old used pens....vintage, and got F nibs as place holders in certain makes and models....in there were so many of them floating around.....I even got use to F nibs.

 

Do expect semi-vintage and vintage Pelikan EF nibs to be much narrower than modern...at least a 1/2 a width.

 

In an Old '80-early 90's chart....before Japanese pens came in........Parker was fatter than Sheaffer, and that fatter than the 400 Pelikan. There was also a narrower 800 nib. Waterman was the thinnest nib listed....................however. Pelikan 400/800 EF nibs were the same width and narrower than all the rest; including Waterman.

 

Times change............but that was also time of the regular flex nib....pre fat and blobby semi-nail and nail nibs of today.

I expect such nibs to be good and smooth, a level under butter smooth.............if you need, you can polish those nibs more..............I always found that a waste of time....laziness has it's benefits.

 

I would remove just the drag....the safe brown paper bag trick....1-1 1/2 minutes....if dangerous micro-mesh, 10-8 or less seconds (later after having much experience) . Drag is micro-corrosion of the 'iridium' or iridium-rust for sitting in the dark of a drawer unused for a couple generations.

 

There is a difference between drag and tooth, the feeling of a pencil....drag, drags....not to be had on modern or newer semi-vintage pens that were used.

 

As mentioned, I find the 200's nibs to be very good and smooth new....not a whole lot under the butter smooth of the fat and blobby 400/600/800/1000 nibs.

 

 

I have no problems using slick paper with a new 200 nib.

Some folks do have problems with butter smooth nibs on slick paper......OK, OK...Clairefontaine Triomphe and Rhoda 90g, were less slick to me than what others complained of.....could be I was using better papers as was.

For me there was when I was looking for it, a tad of slide with butter smooth nibs....but was not 'uncontrollable' skating off the papers, some have problems with.

 

My vintage and semi-vintage nibs are all good and smooth....but not quite as slick as brand new 200's nibs.

Could be I got use to the feel of paper under the nib tip, but even though I could, I've not made them butter smooth. Lazy helps.

 

The springy regular flex 200's nib will fit the 600, and will be a 1/2 a width narrower and give comfortable ride...and if ordered from Cult pens in England, real cheap....half to 2/3rds normal price.

Only you will know that gold plated nib don't 'belong' on your 600....of course if you get some sort of 605, you can save a couple more dollars by getting a plain steel nib.

One could get a 400's semi-vintage springy regular flex gold nib...if it has to be gold.Again 1/2 a width narrower and a clean line.

 

(Call it '50-65) Vintage gold nibs are stubs and semi-vintage ...springy ++ (K nibs available bump on top of the nib so one can use it like a pencil if one wished, stubbed still on the bottom.. )

(82-97) Semi-vintage gold or steel nibs are regular 'American Bump Under' under nibs. (Haven't run into a K nib of that era but I'm not an expert.)

Both nibs have a nice clean line....and are @ 1/2 a width narrower than modern.

Both along with the 200 can be used by the 600 which is a grand Plus.

 

All the 600/400 semi-nail (800 (nail) /1000 -regular flex, excerpt for the older Bock semi-flex) are a double kugal nib....double ball nib with a thicker tip.

 

That came in because the cross over ball point user, didn't want to spend three minutes learning to hold a fountain pen, lower than his ball point, stiffer so he didn't bend so many nibs............and IMO such a nib could only offer butter smooth.....but I am prejudiced........no....having used them am not pre-judging, but spoiled by older nibs with some character and an easier cleaner ride.

A ride by me is more than just 'smooth'.......but actually I am spoiled with my semi-flex....and like my regular flex too. Don't care for nails or semi-nails.

 

Stub and CI is something to keep in mind, many do improve their nail/semi-nail nibs by doing that.

Edited March 9, 2019 by Bo Bo Olson

[1nkulus]

IMO, there is little difference between EF and F owing to the tolerances. The EF premium doesn't help.

I tend to stick with F unless they are the older nibs.

 

The only time you would really notice the difference, if you found the best EF and worst F.

[Bo Bo Olson]

One can look or ask for a skinny EF, which I did when buying my 200 from a good German dealer.

All companies has their very own standards.............Pelikan, MB and Lamy are now wide nibs..........not true in vintage times for MB & Pelikan. A fine Japanese poster said Sailor is a fat Japanese nib.............heresy,, as a number of Sailor lovers told me.

Tolerance can be a skinny EF-XXF or fat EF-F nib or one can get lucky and get one in the middle of that company's tolerance. (And don't believe that a 1.0 = 1.0 instead of 1.1 or 0.90 either....even in robot cut Lamy Steel nibs there is slop/tolerance.

 

It helps to have the great athletic ability I have....I can write both small and large and even in the middle. Many can or will only write tiny....being very proud of that..............why I don't know.

 

Yes, Japanese nibs are missmarked..........they run @ 1 with narrow in they were made for printing a tiny script.

Yes, Western nibs are missmarked...........if you started with Japanese, they are made for a wide cursive script.

If you print go Japanese. If you can only write tiny, go Japanese.

If you only want to use boring vivid supersaturated nibs.....go skinny. Even Western EF is a boring supersaturated ink nib............to skinny to do anything with..........to skinny for laid or linen effect paper.

 

Western size.

If you want to use shading inks F&M and M is not a width to despise as many do having picked up that prejudice on this com., could be for Sheen also..........M or B does well with Glitter ink.

 

Pelikan/Lamy will be wetter/wider, nibs in they make dry inks.

MB a bit in the middle..............Don't know about modern Waterman/Parker nibs....but once Waterman made a narrow nib in they made a wet ink.

 

I think the thinner semi-vintage and or 200's and vintage semi-flex nibs to be better nibs than modern stiffer nibs.....and Pelikan's EF of the '80-90's was the narrowest of the Western nibs.....so keep that in mind................you can get a EF for a 200 that is properly narrow....and for just a bit more in price you can get 14 K '82-97 400 @ E100 if you hunt in German EBay and have IMO a better and narrower nib than the fat and blobby modern Pelikan nib (outside the 200 of course.)

 

Good and smooth is smooth, it's just not slick butter smooth. Good and Smooth is the level just under Butter Smooth. Of course, I have butter smooth nibs. I just don't reach for them all the time. I do have good to better paper...I can understand must having of butter smooth nibs if one uses cheap 80g copy paper.......Rhodia is of course a different kettle of fish in 80g.

 

I also have a couple toothy nibs.....I don't reach for much either....but one has to have one or two of them, just like one 'must' have a butter smooth nib or two.

One can manipulate a nib with ink, a wet well lubricated ink on smooth paper will make a toothy nib less toothy..........pencil feeling, not scratchy. Will make a good and smooth nib a bit more slick.

 

A dry ink will take a bit of slick off a butter smooth nib........if one finds them a bit too smooth. A 100-50% cotton will take an edge off of too slick a nib also............one don't always have to use PP paper.

 

What I find real funny, is some 'noobie' who begs for butter smooth grinding lessons for smoothing his nibs, comes back in @ a year asking how to remove butter smooth........................has happened three or four times I can remember.

 

IMO nails and semi-nails can only offer butter smooth, in to me they are not nibs I find worth chasing. They are good nibs to stub, or make CI.Give them a bit of character.

 

I've been spoiled by semi-flex and regular flex nibs...........of course I grew up with regular flex nibs back in B&W TV days. Fell into the semi-flex well here in Germany................so am spoiled.

[andyk]

Hi,

 

I have no real experience with recent F/EF, but from the variety I own that are about 10 or more years old,(various pens from M200 to M800)they have always been smooth writers. I have quite small writing so this size suits my writing style better.

 

Andy

[riverdale]

I have a Special Edition Souveran m600 Brilliant Orange. It looks like maples in autumn, fits my hand perfectly, it's firm but expressive, and smooth straight out of the box. It's an EF. Maybe I was lucky. Maybe you will be too.

[1nkulus]

Your "old-fashioned" stance is not any different from mine, but I realize that my standard of smoothness is beyond what most pen makers actually aim for, and spending literally 30 seconds to a minute on a nib with a few figure 8's on some micromesh and mylar sheets to achieve the desired nib feel is no burden at all to me. For the price you'll pay in shipping to send one pen back that didn't meet your expectations, you could buy all the materials you'll ever need to tune dozens of pens to perfection. You'll never have to limit your selection of which pens you buy either. Just a different point of view for you to consider...

 

Also: "butter smooth" is subjective and will vary for each person (obviously).

+1

[Mandar]

Thanks again to everyone on this topic for your advice and feedback! I went ahead and got a red-striped M600 with an EF nib from Appelboom. Since they offer a tune-and-smooth option, I included a request to tune the nib for maximum smoothness, so I have no way of knowing how it was out of the box.

 

I'm absolutely delighted with the pen. I have to write on average quality paper much of the time, and this one feels perfectly smooth on all the kinds I've tried so far, with no additional tuning on my part. It's definitely a pen that I would put in the A+ category.

 

There are plenty of great reviews of this pen by experienced folks, so I won't attempt one, but here are a couple of smartphone pics. The ink is Platinum Pigment Blue.

 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/TZAFqS4zNrVSLrFL8

 

Thanks again to all of you!

[LyaT]

Thats a gorgeous pen! Congratulations and enjoy!

[Bo Bo Olson]

Mandar,

out of the box modern Pelikan are very smooth...........sometimes too smooth, in baby bottom can happen when a nib is over polished.

Baby bottom is a modern Pelikan problem (not for the 200/100 nibs which are still made like the older semi-vintage '82-97 nibs.

 

But if the nib is tuned then you will have no problems.

 

I do find F and M better for shading inks................M and wider could be good for sheen inks or glitter inks.

 

Do get 90g or better papers...in case you decide to try a shading ink. The modern EF is 1/2 a width wider than vintage/semi-vintage so could well = a skinny F....so could be wide enough to shade.

Rhodia come in80&90gan will also give you a thinner line. Shades also.....and I find is not quite as slick as reputation says (but I like good and smooth the level under butter smooth.....but then again, you are after butter smooth.....and could be slick.

Worth buying some anyway. I have the new 90g Rhodia....which I find very good.

[Mandar]

Mandar,

out of the box modern Pelikan are very smooth...........sometimes too smooth, in baby bottom can happen when a nib is over polished.

Baby bottom is a modern Pelikan problem (not for the 200/100 nibs which are still made like the older semi-vintage '82-97 nibs.

 

...

 

Rhodia come in80&90gan will also give you a thinner line. Shades also.....and I find is not quite as slick as reputation says (but I like good and smooth the level under butter smooth.....but then again, you are after butter smooth.....and could be slick.

Worth buying some anyway. I have the new 90g Rhodia....which I find very good.

 

Hope to try Rhodia some day. Pity I write so much less now compared to when we were students...

 

Like sirgilbert357 said, it's difficult to compare different people's notions of good-and-smooth, buttery-smooth etc. (unless they've actually written with the same pen-ink-paper combinations), but I think my fine-nibbed M200 would fall in the good-and-smooth category. I like it a good deal, but I think I like my new M600 better.

 

On the other hand, my grandmother's Pelikan (which I've "inherited") is far more sensitive / less robust. It feels very good on good paper that is resting on a cushioning surface -- a writing pad, a softcover book, or similar, but is definitely not nice to write with if the paper is of indifferent quality, or if you're writing on a single sheet of paper on a hard surface. I believe my father gifted it to her some time in the early 50s. I can no longer tell from the worn 14K nib whether it's an F or an EF, but it writes a very fine line.