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Sailor Jentle Substitutes

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#21 by_a_Lady

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Posted 07 March 2019 - 11:19

https://www.fountain...uct-15766445825

Fountainfeder still has some colors in stock.
Truthfully, I'd just use the colors you have, and see how long they'll last you.
By then you can consider whether you actually want more of these inks, or look for the then available versions. Who kniws, Sailor might return to the larger ones if sales go down. 🤔

Karmachanic has a fair point about the pricing. I personally bit the bullet and bought yamadori in the smaller bottle.

 

 

My bet is Sailor either switches to larger bottles next year or drops the price on the 20ml bottle. My biggest fear is that other ink manufacturers will try to follow suit and ink prices go up across the board. 

 

I don't think that they will walk this decision back anytime soon. The post I quoted above makes some really interesting points about it, so I'll reproduce it here in full:

 

 

Many Japanese customers only bought those "Four Seasons" inks to match seasonal special edition pens and/or to give as a small present. Now, the entire line is named Shikiori. Each pen is more explicitly associated with a specific moment of the year and a specific colour of representing that moment. The line has its own poetic mini website visually distinct from the business-as-usual main website.

I notice also a cultural difference missed by many commenters disappointed by Sailor's decision. Sailor's main objective with this change has nothing to do with greedily trying to sell smaller quantities at higher prices. It's rather a clever readjustment of the purchase experience to match their customer's aspirations. Someone at Sailor's is skilled at building on archetypes. While in America abundance is celebrated ―for instance, having so much food it can be wasted in joyous "food fights"― in Japan, there is a reverence for brief yet very accurate evocations of fleeting natural moments. Larger volumes of inks doesn't fit the ephemeral nature of those moments, quite the opposite. However, owning a smaller quantity that won't last you forever does.Think sushi not mega burger. Think haikus not sagas
post-35153-0-33280000-1551319270.jpg

There is also a built-in nostalgia in that very clean well-defined line of products. It might not suit our Western tastes but it improves Sailor's desirability in Japan. 

Business inks (black, blue-black, blue) will remain in larger long-lasting bottles while gourmet inks are now more appropriately in smaller jewel-like bottles to be cherished in evanescent doses. It all makes sense for that market.

 

However, as I said, I wasn't trying to start yet another discussion about the rights or wrongs of that decision. Personally, I dislike it but understand the possible motives; nevertheless, I will be spending my money on something else next time.

 

 

Dominique


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currently learning EO, JP, NL)


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#22 by_a_Lady

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Posted 07 March 2019 - 11:23

Rohrer & Klingner Alt-Goldgrün is a very close match to Waka-Uguisu.

 

I can subscribe to that! However, Alt-Goldgrün shades much more than Waka-Uguisu and lacks the black sheen (which doesn't really show up in everyday writing anyway, so you could say it's not a factor). J. Herbin Vert Olive runs in the same vein as those two, but is perhaps lighter and yellower. I made a quick swatch with dip pens yesterday but haven't used it in a pen yet.

 

 

Dominique


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currently learning EO, JP, NL)


#23 by_a_Lady

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Posted 07 March 2019 - 11:44

Rikyu Cha – Pen and Message Cigar. Is it cheating to substitute with another Sailor-made ink? These could very well be the same ink in different bottles. Cigar is hard to find (it's generally sold out) and expensive but virtually identical to rikyu cha. 

 

Robert Oster Melon Tea has also been mentioned as a very close match to both of the Sailors.

I happen to have all three on hand and will say this: Rikyu-Cha and Cigar are siblings, not twins. They're virtually indistinguishable on paper, but when I shake the bottles a bit and look at the ink running down the sides against a strong light source, I can see a slight difference in the amount of green (Cigar has less).

Melon Tea has less green than both of them, but the other hues are just right. It also sheens less and in a different way. Maybe adding a bit of that green back in would result in just the right mix to match Sailor. (Unfortunately, the only ink that comes to my mind is Sailor Jentle Tokiwa-Matsu, another one we're trying to replace.)

 

 

Dominique


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(fluent in SK, CZ, DE, EN

currently learning EO, JP, NL)


#24 XYZZY

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Posted 07 March 2019 - 17:23

 

My bet is Sailor either switches to larger bottles next year or drops the price on the 20ml bottle. My biggest fear is that other ink manufacturers will try to follow suit and ink prices go up across the board. 

 

I lost track of this somewhere, but what are the native (Japanese) prices of the new 20ml bottles and the old 50ml bottles?  I see Pen-House has the 20ml Shikiori for 1080JPY, or $9.66USD.  That's not crazy.

 

I'm just wondering how much of the prices that I see in the US are because of Sailor, and how much because of their distributor?  Maybe no different than how a Platinum 3776 is a wonderful $65 pen, but if you buy in the US through an authorized retailer then you pay an additional $70 for the privilege.



#25 Intensity

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Posted 07 March 2019 - 17:25

I've recently encountered over 2x inflation on imported price of Krishna inks :(  They are around $3 in India but around $8 (as high as $9) in USA from official distributors.  Could be something like that with Sailor too.


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#26 white_lotus

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Posted 07 March 2019 - 17:40

In Japan, the Four Seasons in 50 ml bottles were always the same price as the regular Sailor Jentle inks (Black, Blue, Blue-black). Now they are still the same price, but for 20 ml.

 

Shipping to the US will definitely add to the costs here, as well as the markup by the distributor.



#27 Intensity

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Posted 09 March 2019 - 20:56

Sailor Rikyu Cha --> Stipula Calamo "Verde Muschiato" / "Musk Green".  Very similar.


“I admit it, I'm surprised that fountain pens are a hobby. ... it's a bit like stumbling into a fork convention - when you've used a fork all your life.” 

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#28 pajaro

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Posted 09 March 2019 - 21:48

I don't think I will live long enough to use the 50-ml bottles of Sailor ink I bought.  Anybody who does a price hike like this doesn't want to sell ink.  I haven't been pleased with their ink's performance anyway.


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They took the blue from the skies and the pretty girls' eyes and a touch of Old Glory too . . .


#29 AndyYNWA

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Posted 11 March 2019 - 08:39

<snip>  I haven't been pleased with their ink's performance anyway.

You must be one of very, very few... :mellow:


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#30 Misfit

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 01:48

The Sailor price hikes the OP mentioned got me wondering. Are there any threads here with suggestions on substitutes for any expensive ink.

I think that would be very helpful.

If there isn’t one, we could come up with a good topic name, figure out what price point is the higher priced, then whenever we find similar inks with significant price differences, post it.

This might already be out there, so please educate me if it is.

I was looking at Sailor Bungubox Ink of the Witch. One review gave a few close inks, like Diamine Eclipse. I had some writing in my notebook using this ink. Diamine Eclipse is close.
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#31 Misfit

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 01:50

I can subscribe to that! However, Alt-Goldgrün shades much more than Waka-Uguisu and lacks the black sheen (which doesn't really show up in everyday writing anyway, so you could say it's not a factor). J. Herbin Vert Olive runs in the same vein as those two, but is perhaps lighter and yellower. I made a quick swatch with dip pens yesterday but haven't used it in a pen yet.
 
 

Dominique


Have you seen Diamine 150th Anniversary Safari? It’s quite close to Alt Goldgrün.
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#32 MuddyWaters

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 12:22

How about Aurora Borealis from Diamine for the Yamadori? It is a bit more green but it has a bit of the similar sheen.


Link to a post about ergonomics I made: http://www.fountainp...with/?p=4179072






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