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Sailor Jentle Substitutes

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#1 by_a_Lady

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Posted 05 March 2019 - 16:51

With the recent price hike (in terms of €/ml) of Sailor's popular Four Seasons inks, I have been subconsciously treasuring the 50ml bottles that I have left. Most of them are either unopened or 95% full, so it's a stupid thing to do, but at the heart of it lies, of course, the "fear" of running out and then standing before the decision to buy 20ml at the very same price.

This is not supposed to be a discussion about whether the price hike is justified or not. As a knowledgeable member put it in the discontinuance PSA thread, the decision was probably made with the Japanese market in mind, not the international one, and the intricacies of Japanese culture, which sounds plausible to me - nevertheless, I won't be repurchasing my current favourites in 20ml bottles if I can find something that is reasonably close. If anyone has recommendations for inks that look the same as Sailor's, please feel free to post them here!

 

 

Dominique

 

 

P.S.: There is this megathread that has some really good recommendations across all ink lines! I will be sifting through it bit by bit and try to find a mention of Sailor, but it's got 23 pages.


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#2 by_a_Lady

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Posted 05 March 2019 - 17:17

I'll make the start with Oku-Yama:

 

 

Perhaps someone mentioned it before, but Sailor Jentle Oku-Yama has very close doppelgängers in the threefoldness of Diamine's dark red inks - Oxblood, Red Dragon and Syrah. I cannot quite pinpoint which ink is the closest, that changes depending on the pen and paper I'm using, but I'd say that Oxblood is perhaps the least similar out of all three because of its lack of sheen. Oku-Yama is kind of in-between Oxblood and Syrah, so it would make sense to call Red Dragon closest, but even that one still lacks the deep red and violet hues that Oxblood and Syrah, respectively, have too much of. Looking at my swabs on Tomoe River, Syrah actually comes closest in both colour and sheen (and the colour of the sheen), but in writing it's too violet. It would make sense to mix the Diamines to get the perfect colour match for Oku-Yama, and then maybe let it evaporate a bit to get more sheen out of the new mixture.

 

To clarify: Oxblood is the least similiar, mostly because it's too brown and doesn't sheen; however, the depth is just about right. I'm not acquainted with Red Dragon well enough to comment on details, but it seems to me that the ideal substitute of Oku-Yama would sit just between it and Syrah. On its own, Syrah definitely comes closest out of all three and also sheens the same colour as Oku-Yama (green), but it can come out too violet under some circumstances. I do stand by my theory that a mix would bring forth a perfect match, and being from the same brand, a certain level of mixing compatibility can be assumed.

 

 

Dominique


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#3 The Good Captain

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Posted 05 March 2019 - 18:17

I'm looking forward to seeing the responses to this fascinating post.


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#4 Mulrich

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Posted 05 March 2019 - 18:33

Fortunately I only have three Jentle inks (plus another 10 Sailor made inks from small shops in Japan that don't seem impacted by the change). 

 

Here are some quick substitutes for the three Jentle inks in my collection…

 

Souten – Iroshizuku Kon Peki. Souten is a little darker and has more sheen so not a perfect substitute but reasonably close. 

 

Yama Dori – J Herbin Emerald of Chivor. Yama Dori is often mentioned as a substitute for EoC for those who don't want the glittery bits. Seems reasonable to substitute the other way; just let the glitter settle before filling. 

 

Rikyu Cha – Pen and Message Cigar. Is it cheating to substitute with another Sailor-made ink? These could very well be the same ink in different bottles. Cigar is hard to find (it's generally sold out) and expensive but virtually identical to rikyu cha. 



#5 Bobje

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Posted 05 March 2019 - 20:32

For Sailor oku yama, you could go with Montblanc Antoine de Saint-Xupery, or Iroshizuku yama budo. Or Robert Oster Astorquiza rot, or Oster Australian syrah. 

 

Or just plain old Binder burgundy, which is half Waterman purple and half Sheaffer Skrip red.


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#6 aurore

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Posted 06 March 2019 - 06:22

I hate to respond with a question, but what would you like to replace?
The colours? Then yes, all of them can be replaced more or less accurately, quite a few even with Diamine inks.
However if you are trying to replace the overall performance, then no, sorry, none of the mentioned above inks or any futher perform in the same way as Sailor.  Sailor inks' performance is not considered ideal by everyone nevertheless it is truly unique.



#7 Misfit

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Posted 06 March 2019 - 07:01

I hope amberleadavis sees this thread. She has a lot of side by side ink comparisons.
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#8 Misfit

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Posted 06 March 2019 - 07:43

I clicked on the doppelgänger ink thread. On page 14 Diamine Wild Strawberry for Sailor Jentile Irori
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#9 Lgsoltek

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Posted 06 March 2019 - 10:10

For Sailor oku yama, you could go with Montblanc Antoine de Saint-Xupery, or Iroshizuku yama budo. Or Robert Oster Astorquiza rot, or Oster Australian syrah. 
 
Or just plain old Binder burgundy, which is half Waterman purple and half Sheaffer Skrip red.


Well Bob, Saint Exupery is even more expensive (43 usd for 50 ml) than the Sailor inks the OP is trying to replace (15 usd for 20 ml).

#10 Karmachanic

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Posted 06 March 2019 - 10:53

Yama Dori – Ku Jaku


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#11 Karmachanic

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Posted 06 March 2019 - 11:07

 I won't be repurchasing my current favourites in 20ml bottles if I can find something that is reasonably close.

 

 

My way around this is to consider the cost over the time it takes to use the ink. 20ml over four years, for instance  = $3.5 a year. Insignificant. Of course if one were to use  20ml of a particular colour a month, then finding a substitute would be logical.

 

See how easy it is to rationalize? :D


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#12 AndyYNWA

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Posted 06 March 2019 - 13:09

If it's just the colour you're after, there are quite many options for each ink. However, the characteristics and performance of Sailor inks are hard to find...


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#13 inkstainedruth

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Posted 06 March 2019 - 16:29

The really frustrating part is that even Sailor inks don't quite line up as perfect matches.  I know that people have done side by side chromatographies between Sky High and Souten and swear up down and sideways that they're identical.  But my eye is going "Not quite...."  To the point that I'd be curious to see a side by side overall comparison between old Sky High and re-issued Sky High.  And for old Epinard and re-issued Epinard as well (by the time I decided I really wanted to try "old" Epinard it was OOS everywhere.

Noodler's Liberty's Elysium was close to Sky High in color, but again, "not quite".   And I would not say that Iroshizuku Yama-budo is anywhere near a match to Oku-yama (which is more brownish, whereas Yama-budo is more red-violet.  I love Yama-budo enough to have sprung for a backup bottle early on; tried a sample of Oku-yama, on the other hand, and was going "meh..." about the color.  I would suggest looking at inks that are really red-brown/brown-red in color.

Sorry I can't be of more help.

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#14 aurore

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Posted 06 March 2019 - 20:23

If it's just the colour you're after, there are quite many options for each ink. However, the characteristics and performance of Sailor inks are hard to find...

This is the main point. Not the colours are superb about Sailor inks, but the performance.



#15 uceroy

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Posted 06 March 2019 - 20:47

https://www.fountain...uct-15766445825

Fountainfeder still has some colors in stock.
Truthfully, I'd just use the colors you have, and see how long they'll last you.
By then you can consider whether you actually want more of these inks, or look for the then available versions. Who kniws, Sailor might return to the larger ones if sales go down. 🤔

Karmachanic has a fair point about the pricing. I personally bit the bullet and bought yamadori in the smaller bottle.

#16 ErrantSmudge

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Posted 06 March 2019 - 21:09

Rohrer & Klingner Alt-Goldgrün is a very close match to Waka-Uguisu.



#17 shinryu

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Posted 06 March 2019 - 21:11

I feel Beaufort's Peacock is a nice (though a bit more understated) replacement for Yama-dori.



#18 Mulrich

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Posted 06 March 2019 - 21:48

Who kniws, Sailor might return to the larger ones if sales go down.
 

 

My bet is Sailor either switches to larger bottles next year or drops the price on the 20ml bottle. My biggest fear is that other ink manufacturers will try to follow suit and ink prices go up across the board. 



#19 Intensity

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Posted 07 March 2019 - 05:48

I assume the equivalent needs to be not only in colors but in behavior as well?

 

 

If so, it's not particularly cheap, but very similar per milliliter -- Colorverse inks: can be had for $30 for 65ml + 15ml = 80ml, or $0.375 per ml; Sailor was $18 in brick and mortar stores for 50ml or $16 on-line, which is about the same $0.32-0.36 per ml.  Similar high saturation and many high sheen options.  My Dark Energy feels like typical Sailor inks in writing.

 

My Lamy inks have also behaved like Sailor inks I've tried in terms of flow, feel, and saturation, though not as complex in hues.

 

Birmingham Pen Co. Truss Blue is super similar in hue, vibrancy, and saturation to Sailor Jentle Souten and has better water resistance than Souten.


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#20 by_a_Lady

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Posted 07 March 2019 - 11:07

I hate to respond with a question, but what would you like to replace?
The colours? Then yes, all of them can be replaced more or less accurately, quite a few even with Diamine inks.
However if you are trying to replace the overall performance, then no, sorry, none of the mentioned above inks or any futher perform in the same way as Sailor.  Sailor inks' performance is not considered ideal by everyone nevertheless it is truly unique.

 

If it's just the colour you're after, there are quite many options for each ink. However, the characteristics and performance of Sailor inks are hard to find...

 

This is the main point. Not the colours are superb about Sailor inks, but the performance.

 

I'm specifically looking for the colour equivalents. As for performance, I think that their only really distinguishing characteristic is their smoothness, and, exceptional though it is, I can live without it. What I enjoy most are their pretty colours and the intense but tasteful sheen.

 

 

Dominique


Edited by by_a_Lady, 07 March 2019 - 11:24.

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